David Alan Harvey kicked out of Magnum

BradS

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The examples you give are quite extreme and therefore not really very good analogies. I also do not agree that the actions mentioned in your examples were considered "perfectly acceptable at the time" in the same sense that I'm using that phrase. I'm using perfectly acceptable in a more universal sense as in nobody at the time thought that there was anything wrong with it. For example, very many Americans thought that rounding up citizens of Japanese ancestry and imprisoning them for the remainder of the war was an abominable crime against humanity...clearly not "perfectly acceptable" (nor even necessary, or expedient).

Again, I'm only saying that **some** behavior that was acceptable then is not acceptable now...some...not all. Much has not changed....and it is therefore, not always as it seems with these accusations - especially when we do not have all the facts. Again, I am not defending what DAH or anybody else has done or is alleged to have done. I'm just trying to urge a more critical thought process.
 
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Vaughn

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Mistreating women has always been wrong -- nobody thought it was right...just acceptable if you did it from a position of power.
 

ChristopherCoy

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You know we've taken a wrong turn tangent when we're bringing John Wayne in for arguments sake.
 

Dali

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4 pages of chatter and (very comfortable) principle positions and no one knows exactly what happened.

Whether DAH has committed reprehensible acts and is prosecuted is his business, not ours. Whether Magnum decided to eject him is their business, not ours.

So, unless you have some decisive, first-hand information to share, I don't see how your opinion matters to us.
 

BradS

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Vaughn said:
Mistreating women has always been wrong....
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Yes. Obviously.


EDIT:
and what about mistreating men?

but, but but...here's the real meat of the question, what exactly characterizes mistreatment? what is and what is not misreatment? and has that changed?
 
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ChristopherCoy

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Dali said:
So, unless you have some decisive, first-hand information to share, I don't see how your opinion matters to us.
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You do realize that you did exactly what you've chastised others for, correct? Offered an opinion without any firsthand knowledge.
 

Vaughn

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BradS said:
Yes. Obviously.


EDIT:
and what about mistreating men?...
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That is the same as saying 'All Lives Matter' when confronted with concern over the death of a person of color.
 

Dali

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ChristopherCoy said:
You do realize that you did exactly what you've chastised others for, correct? Offered an opinion without any firsthand knowledge.
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Looks like you are blind... Let me explain to you the difference: I am not implying anything about DAH, either for or against. This is not an opinion. This is a fact.
 

ChristopherCoy

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Dali said:
Looks like you are blind... Let me explain to you the difference: I am not implying anything about DAH, either for or against. This is not an opinion. This is a fact.
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That is, of course, your opinion.
 

Sirius Glass

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When John Wayne got stomach cancer, he stopped making war movies in which he charged up on the beach because he did not have the guts for it.
 

Vaughn

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BradS said:
yes, and.... ???
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Like the phrase "All Lives Matter", which has definite racist connotations, your comment has definite misogynistic connotations attached to it. As I have written in this thread earlier, the problem of racism is when it is used by those in power to harm others. Disrespect for women, including misogyny, is not a problem unless the person is in a position of power. DAH was in a position of power and used that power to sexually harrass women. Americans have the right to be racist, and the right to be a misogynist. But like the right to swings one's arm ends at the tip of someone else's nose, so does the right to express or act upon ones disrespect for women in a way that harms women.

The words, "It was perfectly acceptable to get some women drunk, take her home and "had a good time", but that doesn't mean it is right." is not an "extreme" example as you put forth and very much the issue here.
 
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Dali

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I propose to rename Photrio. "Pillory" is more appropriate.
 

Vaughn

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ChristopherCoy

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Vaughn

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ChristopherCoy said:
Maybe it's just severe boredom or monotony today.
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I love it. We debate as if it will change the photographic world. At times we are lizards bragging that our predecessor were dinosaurs, while our successors carry on the torches of photography...digitally or otherwise.
 

BradS

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Vaughn said:
....
The words, "It was perfectly acceptable to get some women drunk, take her home and "had a good time", but that doesn't mean it is right." is not an "extreme" example as you put forth and very much the issue here.
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Ah, I confess I only skimmed the article linked in the OP. I must have missed that detail. If that is what he is accused of then I have been positing nuanced non-sense. Please accept my humble apologies.
 

Vaughn

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BradS said:
Ah, I confess I only skimmed the article linked in the OP. I must have missed that detail. If that is what he is accused of then I have been positing nuanced non-sense. Please accept my humble apologies.
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No problem...cool. You made me think, which I always appreciate.
 

Richard Man

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BradS said:
Ah, I confess I only skimmed the article linked in the OP. I must have missed that detail. If that is what he is accused of then I have been positing nuanced non-sense. Please accept my humble apologies.
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Hi Brad, as a person who really admires DAH's work, and have taken his workshop, the episode really pains me. The allegations are very bad. I don't think your and my opinions are too far apart, once details are known. At least I don't think you are a troll, and very much willing to discuss things with you.

Be well.
 

ChristopherCoy

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I don't think any of our opinions are too far apart, but the way that we voice them probably is.
 

Sirius Glass

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Cholentpot said:
THE HELL HE WAS!
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He had most of his digestive organs removed to fight the cancer, that is why he did not have the guts to make war movies.
 
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