Darkroom Progress - Now building my Processing/Wet station

[arespencer]

Hello

So I had some questions and concerns in the next step of my darkroom build. I just finished building an enclosed room in my garage where I will be exposing/enlarging my prints and loading them into drums. Since I know people will ask, there is no ventilation built into that room since its just a dry room for exposing and loading paper. I'm now starting to buy supplies and figure out my workflow for developing the prints and I'm hoping some people here can provide some help and information.

First here are my needs

I mostly print on 10x12 DPII paper (comes cut in that size from London)
I would be printing 11x14 if I cannot source that paper and need to buy cut sheets from Fuji in the states. So 11x14 is the max print size I'm concerned with being able to make.

I'm pretty set on drums workflow. Trays would be an absolute last resort if I had to go that route, but I'm really really trying to avoid that. I need stable and consistent results (for a working professional) from drum developing.

I plan on doing things one shot (for added consistency) with Silver Pixel Developer Replenisher chemistry ($110) with their Bleach-Fix and Replenisher from freestyle photo ($100). I'll hold to see if I need to do a pre wet/pre wash or not and a stop bath. the Dev and Blix make 20 Liters each so with a 1 shot (2840 uses 120 ml) (2850 uses 200 ml) I should get 100-166 prints with those tanks. I also read that I can use the small extender from the 2840 to use on its own to processing small test stripes since that is the same thing as a 2820 (40 ml) just without the label. So in theory if it takes me 4 test strips and 2 full 11x14 prints to get to a final print I'm looking at 400 ml of chemicals, working out to being $4.20 to make a print (not including paper)




So my main overall question is, in peoples opinion on drum processing which route would be the most stable, repeatable and convenient, as well as relatively easy to find and source the products? I need to decide on which brand/style of tanks I want to use and which roller method/device I want to use to get consistent results.

I found a Jobo 2840 regular lid and a 2850 with cog lid on eBay that I ordered on a whim because it seems quite hard to find print processing drums in 11x14 size. So at the moment I'm going to be using jobo drums but I have no problem switching to something else if it's easier to work with and gives me better results. For starters I'm looking at the Jobo manual roller which says for use of all 1500 and 2500 tanks. Would that roller work for the 2800 tanks or what roller systems are available to roll those size tanks? These roller also looks interesting to me if they could work with the 2840 size tank.

Since I want ease of use and consistency I am looking at getting the Jobo CPE-3 with lift processor, and buy a cog lid for the 2840 I have coming. My thought process for this is, I would get the most consistent results with this and I can use the 3000 drums since those are readily available (just expensive). Is this over kill if I'm just processing prints and would hand rolling or some other cheaper roller work with the 2840 tank and give me accurate results? I don't mind spending the money on the CPE-3 if I needed to for best results but if I can get the same results rolling by hand or rolling with a cheap automatic rolling machine I'd love to not spend the $2000.

Any help you guys could provide in getting me setup with a solid RA4 Drum Processing setup would be much appreciated.


Edit also adding that I found a Cinestill temp control system for cheap that I will use to make a warm water bath. I have some of the 1000ml air reduction bottles ordered and the 600ml bottles ordered. I'll use these to hold my mix chemistry for the printing session and use smaller measuring tubes to measure out final amounts for each print process.

 

[koraks]

I mostly print on 10x12 DPII paper (comes cut in that size from London)

See if you can get Maxima. If you're a professional printer/artist, it's really the way to go given the enhanced longevity of the prints. It's not a fake story either; the paper really is better protected both against UV and aerial pollutants.

As to chemistry, I'd consider replenished blix for sure, and potentially also replenishing the developer. Yes, oxidation rates will be higher when using drums than a RT processor, but you can still do replenishment if you compensate a bit for the higher oxidation. Use something like half a gallon of developer and take a bit from that for each run, then pour back into the bottle and replenish the bottle every few prints.

Can't help you on the drum choice as personally I vehemently hated doing RA4 in drums, with all the cleaning it involved and the problems with droplet marks/runners if you somehow missed a droplet clinging to a lid etc. I found trays far more convenient to use. I can't comment on your concern of consistency since I don't know what the problem is supposed to be with trays; if there's one, I never ran into it. YMMV. If you do get drums, I'd get half a dozen or so so that you can clean & dry them batch-wise. It'll be slightly more efficient than circulating a single drum throughout a session.

If you're using drums, you don't really need a temp-controlled Jobo machine; you can do lower temp processing just as well with a longer development time and get pretty much the same results. Filtration will be slightly different, but as long as you keep the developing temperature more or less constant, you will automatically compensate for that anyway, so don't worry about it. I don't put much stock in a Jobo with lift; in fact, I'd very strongly recommend NOT going that route as you're inviting disaster due to contaminating your developer with blix. This may not be a problem if you do use your developer one shot (expensive + wasteful, your call).

A sous vide stick (Cinestill or a cheaper brand, it really doesn't matter IMO) in a tub of water will be just fine for tempering your chemistry. Evidently if you use a rotating drum, the temperature will drop during development; do some test runs where you measure in/out temperature so you know the average and go by that. Note that all RA4 developers can be used at lower temperatures; there's no such thing as "low-temperature RA4 chemistry". It's all optimized for official process temperatures and at the same time it will all get the job done at a lower temperature as well. You will need to empirically determine a suitable development time for your chemistry + paper; use a time that gives you convincing/solid black, but don't go overboard with it as at some point you get cross-contamination of the color channels. It's not super critical though; if you're e.g. working at 30C, you probably have a margin of 15-30 seconds or so that will yield virtually indistinguishable results.

If you do a lot of RA4 printing, especially at modest sizes as you describe, keep your eyes open for an RT processor as it'll make your life infinitely easier in the darkroom. You'll never look back. The main problem is that they're rare and expensive these days.

 

[arespencer]

See if you can get Maxima. If you're a professional printer/artist, it's really the way to go given the enhanced longevity of the prints. It's not a fake story either; the paper really is better protected both against UV and aerial pollutants.

I have a box of maxima in 12x16 sheets that I haven’t touched. I’ve heard that maxima of even more saturated and contrast-y compared to DPII? If that’s the case DPII might be preferred for that reason. At the moment I’m not too concerned about archival quality. I print to scan the prints for my final file and then deliver to either an editorial client, commercial client, or use those files for zine and book projects. So my darkroom prints aren’t really being seen in print form. However in the future, exhibiting and selling hand prints of my personal work would be cool, so I may look more into that.

I also need to make sense of the American naming Fuji papers so that I can buy rolls and trim them down my self. Buying cut sheets from UK is too expensive. I think I might try out super CN, from my research that might be the closest to DPII.

As to chemistry, I'd consider replenished blix for sure, and potentially also replenishing the developer. Yes, oxidation rates will be higher when using drums than a RT processor, but you can still do replenishment if you compensate a bit for the higher oxidation. Use something like half a gallon of developer and take a bit from that for each run, then pour back into the bottle and replenish the bottle every few prints.

Great to know, replenished blix sounds like a good idea and I’ll look more into some version of relishing developer. I was curious if you could use more chemicals than needed in the drums. Would there be any draw backs? In my mind I’m thinking, if the drum needs 200ml and I use 600ml could I just recycle that 600ml for 3 or 5 prints and then toss it? Without losing any consistency?

Can't help you on the drum choice as personally I vehemently hated doing RA4 in drums, with all the cleaning it involved and the problems with droplet marks/runners if you somehow missed a droplet clinging to a lid etc. I found trays far more convenient to use. I can't comment on your concern of consistency since I don't know what the problem is supposed to be with trays; if there's one, I never ran into it. YMMV. If you do get drums, I'd get half a dozen or so so that you can clean & dry them batch-wise. It'll be slightly more efficient than circulating a single drum throughout a session.

This was my thought process too, I’d have 3 drums I can do a quick stretch of prints and then bulk wash and dry. Or if I could make a air drying rack system that would dry them by the time I do the next 2 prints.

If you're using drums, you don't really need a temp-controlled Jobo machine; you can do lower temp processing just as well with a longer development time and get pretty much the same results. Filtration will be slightly different, but as long as you keep the developing temperature more or less constant, you will automatically compensate for that anyway, so don't worry about it. I don't put much stock in a Jobo with lift; in fact, I'd very strongly recommend NOT going that route as you're inviting disaster due to contaminating your developer with blix. This may not be a problem if you do use your developer one shot (expensive + wasteful, your call).

That’s great I was hoping I could do just fine with a roller base and manually spinning it by hand. In your expertise would spinning by hand be close enough for consistent agitation (assuming I’m really focusing on what speed and rotation, etc I use)?

Is it theoretical that I can develop and blix at any (room temp) and it will just adjust the develop time. Is there a middle ground that works best, slight warmed chemicals to extend the dev time so that loading and emptying chemicals have less of an impact on overall time?

A sous vide stick (Cinestill or a cheaper brand, it really doesn't matter IMO) in a tub of water will be just fine for tempering your chemistry. Evidently if you use a rotating drum, the temperature will drop during development; do some test runs where you measure in/out temperature so you know the average and go by that. Note that all RA4 developers can be used at lower temperatures; there's no such thing as "low-temperature RA4 chemistry". It's all optimized for official process temperatures and at the same time it will all get the job done at a lower temperature as well. You will need to empirically determine a suitable development time for your chemistry + paper; use a time that gives you convincing/solid black, but don't go overboard with it as at some point you get cross-contamination of the color channels. It's not super critical though; if you're e.g. working at 30C, you probably have a margin of 15-30 seconds or so that will yield virtually indistinguishable results.

Can you control contrast of some sorts by modifying your develop times? Or is that not really a thing?

If you do a lot of RA4 printing, especially at modest sizes as you describe, keep your eyes open for an RT processor as it'll make your life infinitely easier in the darkroom. You'll never look back. The main problem is that they're rare and expensive these days.

I definitely would love to have a processor but I am a bit turned off by how expensive they are and for the fact that you could pay $3k for something that isn’t completely tested, may need constant fixing, replacing and could just go out one day. There is a Fujimoto CP-31 for sale in Colorado that I would need to drive to pick up. It looks pretty clean and is semi tested but not fully. It’s $3,000 but I have been tempted to consider grabbing it. But that’s a lot of money to spend on something that may not work or be a pain getting up and running and maintaining, and I still don’t get dry to dry. I’ve convinced myself that drums really aren't all that bad and the only hang ups are just washing and drying the drums in between prints. If there were a new desktop processor that did 16” or even 12” being manufactured I would have no problem spending like $5k on that.

So yes I would love to have a processor if an opportunity makes sense, or even be able to find a colenta ecoline 56. But not sure how much those actually cost all in but I was assuming they were like $10k-$15k, not sure where I got that number from though.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, and keeping in mind that when I use tubes it is with black and white printing, I find that if I have at least three tubes, something set up for air drying, and a reasonably plentiful set of old linen towels for quick wipe-downs before air drying, the drying burden isn't bad.
That is with easily assembled/disassembled Cibachrome tubes.