Darkroom alternatives advice needed.

VinceInMT · May 30, 2022

While I started off with a ratchet-type plastic reel and tank, I switched to these stainless steel tanks and reels almost 50-years ago and never had a problem with them either for 35mm or 120. Yes, there is a little bit of a learning curve in loading the film but it can be quickly mastered.

While you have to give the film a small crimp to get it started, one thing I’ve relied on to make sure that the film is loading correctly is the sound of the film going on the reel. I have to turn off the music I usually have playing in the darkroom when I am doing it to hear the “swishing” sound of the edge of the film sliding into the spirals of the reel as I rotate it.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

VinceInMT said:
While I started off with a ratchet-type plastic reel and tank, I switched to these stainless steel tanks and reels almost 50-years ago and never had a problem with them either for 35mm or 120. Yes, there is a little bit of a learning curve in loading the film but it can be quickly mastered.

While you have to give the film a small crimp to get it started, one thing I’ve relied on to make sure that the film is loading correctly is the sound of the film going on the reel. I have to turn off the music I usually have playing in the darkroom when I am doing it to hear the “swishing” sound of the edge of the film sliding into the spirals of the reel as I rotate it.

View attachment 306890

Are these daylight tanks?

VinceInMT · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
Are these daylight tanks?

I take the definition of “daylight tank” to mean that the film has to be loaded in the dark but the processing can take place in daylight. These are then daylight tanks. There are 4 components: the tank, the reel, the lid (which has a light trap), and the cap.

Load the film on the reel in the dark and place in the tank. Place the lid on the tank. Now it is safe to turn on the lights. Remove the cap and pour the chemicals in. Put the little cap on the lid which allows the tank to be inverted during processing without spilling out the chems. Remove the cap to pour out the chems. When done processing, remove the lid and wash in the daylight.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

VinceInMT said:
I take the definition of “daylight tank” to mean that the film has to be loaded in the dark but the processing can take place in daylight. These are then daylight tanks. There are 4 components: the tank, the reel, the lid (which has a light trap), and the cap.

Load the film on the reel in the dark and place in the tank. Place the lid on the tank. Now it is safe to turn on the lights. Remove the cap and pour the chemicals in. Put the little cap on the lid which allows the tank to be inverted during processing without spilling out the chems. Remove the cap to pour out the chems. When done processing, remove the lid and wash in the daylight.

Excellent. Are their any tank and reel brands you recommend?

VinceInMT · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
Excellent. Are their any tank and reel brands you recommend?

I bought these at Freestyle many decades ago. They have no brand name on them, just an stamp on the bottom that says “Made in Japan.” I will say that the tall tank with the plastic lid does not leak when inverted. The all-metal ones tend to drip a little bit.

Looking at the Freestyle site, I think my tall tank is an Arista and if I was in the market for a tank, I’d probably go with that.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

VinceInMT said:
I bought these at Freestyle many decades ago. They have no brand name on them, just an stamp on the bottom that says “Made in Japan.” I will say that the tall tank with the plastic lid does not leak when inverted. The all-metal ones tend to drip a little bit.

Looking at the Freestyle site, I think my tall tank is an Arista and if I was in the market for a tank, I’d probably go with that.

OK, thanks!

MattKing · May 30, 2022

For 120, I like using the plastic AP/Samigon/Arista Premium reels with wider loading flanges in either a Paterson or AP/Samigon/Arista tank - most frequently a 2 x 120 reel Paterson Super System 4 tank.
I use the same tanks and (adjustable) reels for 35mm, although my preference for loading is steel reels with a "C" shaped loading gap at the core - impossible to describe, but obvious when you see one - in plastic or metal with plastic lid tanks.
If you were local, I'd be happy to lend you a wide selection of tanks and reels to try them out, because I have a wide selection available, including Ansco twist only tanks and Kodak film apron tanks.
JOBO plastic reels and I have never got along well, and I don't think I have any.

donotpaint · May 30, 2022

I think it's easy to overstate the importance of a developing system. For years I used a fedco daylight tank that I found on the side of the road. It had the metal disadvantage of being difficult to load, and the plastic disadvantage of needing extra liquid. It worked like a charm. You might subjectively like some systems better than others, but anything work perfectly well if you learn how to use it.

Sirius Glass · May 30, 2022

Whether using plastic reels or stainless steel reels, when one starts with reels which are new to them, one should practice in daylight to get the necessary experience before practicing in the dark. Then, when perfected try it in the dark with film.

Jay Schrotenboer · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
Excellent. Are their any tank and reel brands you recommend?

I currently have two metal reals for 120 (a few more for 135, but I never shoot than anymore) one is a hewes and one nikor. I think both are easy enough to load, but I believe only the hewes are available new anymore. I also have a Paterson super system 4 5 real tank that came with one real, so I have never used it (nor do I think the previous owner ever did either, having gotten it with other darkroom equipment), but they are a common and easy to find system that might be worth starting with.

AgX · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
I also don’t know what the best system is since it seems like everyone on the internet has a different opinion regarding tanks and reels.

One of the pet issues on this forum to bicker about. You hardly would get good advice. Choose whatever you like
and make your own experiences.

Concerning Jobo tanks there seems a large ignorance at our US fellows. Their number of products is huge and confusing.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

MattKing said:
For 120, I like using the plastic AP/Samigon/Arista Premium reels with wider loading flanges in either a Paterson or AP/Samigon/Arista tank - most frequently a 2 x 120 reel Paterson Super System 4 tank.
I use the same tanks and (adjustable) reels for 35mm, although my preference for loading is steel reels with a "C" shaped loading gap at the core - impossible to describe, but obvious when you see one - in plastic or metal with plastic lid tanks.
If you were local, I'd be happy to lend you a wide selection of tanks and reels to try them out, because I have a wide selection available, including Ansco twist only tanks and Kodak film apron tanks.
JOBO plastic reels and I have never got along well, and I don't think I have any.

I’d take you up on that! Thanks!

VinceInMT · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
…it seems like everyone on the internet has a different opinion regarding tanks and reels…

Hey, it’s like going to our motorcycle forums and asking about tires and oil. You never get an answer that is based on anything other than personal preference but you do come away with a nice list of what’s available.

MattKing · May 30, 2022

Some of us have sold darkroom equipment and taught others how to use darkroom equipment.
And some of us have somewhat specialized experiences - I load film with 1 dexterous hand and one hand with limited strength and dexterity.
So some people have a bit more to contribute than just "personal preference".
That being said, I think the question of which type of reel works best for you is really personal.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Whether using plastic reels or stainless steel reels, when one starts with reels which are new to them, one should practice in daylight to get the necessary experience before practicing in the dark. Then, when perfected try it in the dark with film.

Absolutely planning on the this! I have no desire to practice loading film in the dark.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Hey, it’s like going to our motorcycle forums and asking about tires and oil. You never get an answer that is based on anything other than personal preference but you do come away with a nice list of what’s

Not too many tire wars. Whatever works for you is fine.

Oil....now that another story. Shell Rotella T full syn or nothing. .

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

Artista has a nice started kit. I think I’m going to go that route for $35. Then I have to buy all the other stuff.

VinceInMT · May 30, 2022

MattKing said:
Some of us have sold darkroom equipment and taught others how to use darkroom equipment.

I recently helped a neighbor kid get his Photography merit badge toward his Eagle Scout. I told him I’d mentor him but we would do all film, no digital. I loaned him a camera and taught him how to load canisters with my bulk loaders and how to make proper exposures as we went out on shoots together. When it came to developing, he quickly mastered loading on the stainless steel reels. He learned how to develop the film and how to run test strips and make prints. He also learned about darkroom cleanliness. After a a few sessions I just turned him loose in the darkroom and when he’d leave, it was so tidy I couldn’t tell he’d been there.

One day, after he’d been in the darkroom for a few hours and was heading home, he stopped and thank me, not just for teaching him this stuff but, in his words, “passing on the the tradition.” I’m a retired high school teacher and it’s those kinds of comments that make teaching worth doing even though you can’t put it in the bank.

VinceInMT · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
Artista has a nice started kit. I think I’m going to go that route for $35. Then I have to buy all the other stuff.

The “other stuff,” equipment-wise, might be stuff you already have. Measuring cups from the kitchen. A bucket from the garage. Plastic bottles for chems that can be put in dark trash bags to protect from light. A dishpan for washing. Load film in a closet at night.

Sirius Glass · May 30, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Hey, it’s like going to our motorcycle forums and asking about tires and oil. You never get an answer that is based on anything other than personal preference but you do come away with a nice list of what’s available.

Here, ask about which camera to use or buy and everyone will tell you their drug of choice camera.
Buy or use anything different and they will tell you that you made the worst choice of their life.

AgX · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
Absolutely planning on the this! I have no desire to practice loading film in the dark.

I never trained. Got me a Jobo 1000 tank and just loaded. And am just a average guy with one left and one right hand. Did it without darkroom, without problems.
One may call this anecdotal.

Had I been on this forum back then I most likely would not have started photography.
Just to put things into perspective.

Sirius Glass · May 30, 2022

AgX said:
I never trained. Got me a Jobo 1000 tank and just loaded. And am just a average guy with one left and one right hand. Did it without darkroom, without problems.
One may call this anecdotal.

Had I been on this forum back then I most likely would not have started photography.
Just to put things into perspective.

Some are blessed; some need practice.

MattKing · May 30, 2022

KerrKid said:
Artista has a nice started kit. I think I’m going to go that route for $35. Then I have to buy all the other stuff.

This Arista Premium tank and two reels is actually quite decent - particularly the Arista Premium reels:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/5041-Arista-Premium-Double-Reel-Developing-Tank-with-Two-Reels
They are also marketed under AP (the manufacturer), Samigon and other names.
Arista is, of course, Freestyle's house brand, and besides being a retailer, they are also a distributor.
I use those reels in Paterson tanks - they are compatible. But the Arista tank has some advantages too, and mine have seen a bit of use.
Those reels and that tank are, IMHO, better than the Arista Classic version. And at least for 120m film, better than the Paterson version.

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

I’m not worried. I’ve done it all before. Just forgot how since it was 40 years ago. I’m just going to shoot random stuff with Kentmere 400 to hone my skills and see what kind of results my different cameras yield.

Btw...what’s the best way to keep all the chemicals and water at the same 68 degree temperature?

KerrKid · May 30, 2022

MattKing said:
This Arista Premium tank and two reels is actually quite decent - particularly the Arista Premium reels:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/5041-Arista-Premium-Double-Reel-Developing-Tank-with-Two-Reels
They are also marketed under AP (the manufacturer), Samigon and other names.
Arista is, of course, Freestyle's house brand, and besides being a retailer, they are also a distributor.
I use those reels in Paterson tanks - they are compatible. But the Arista tank has some advantages too, and mine have seen a bit of use.
Those reels and that tank are, IMHO, better than the Arista Classic version. And at least for 120m film, better than the Paterson version.

Good to hear! I’m planning on getting two of the Arista premium reels, too. Under $50 for everything.

Darkroom alternatives advice needed.

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Darkroom alternatives advice needed.

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