D series Nikon for budget camera scanning (and also maybe to use)?

[RLangham]

So I know I just posted a thread about my Epson scanner… and then while it was scanning the last frame of a roll last night, something locked up and now it won’t do anything. Seems like the stepper motor may have gotten stuck.

For the time being I have an HP Scanjet G3110 that works with vuescan, but I don’t love anything about it and I’m leary of consumer scanners now, since the Epson was the second flatbed that broke on me during normal operation.

However. I’m a resourceful guy and I own a full macro setup for pre-AI Nikon F mount—bellows, lenses et cetera.

Could I improvise a good camera scanning setup using the macro bellows and some kind of jig to hold the bellows and camera over a simple light table? And if so, can anyone recommend me an older D series to buy at like, $100-200 that will be adequate for this purpose? I can always upgrade to a better camera later as long as it accepts old F mount lenses. I know APS-C will have a crop factor on lenses meant for 35mm, but I’m sure I can design my jig to allow for that, and I also have a standalone macro 50mm if need be. Full frame would be a plus though.

And the good thing about going D-series too is I might even try actual digital photography, since I already like my manual focus F mount lenses.

 

[RLangham]

D5000 looks good in terms of being cheap and able to mount Pre-AI lenses. But my understanding is that I’d have to basically manually set the exposure, since it has no way to do stopped-down metering, huh?

 

[xkaes]

I would assume that the D5000 has A-mode auto-exposure, no? That should work.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. The easiest to set up and use would probably be an ES-1 slide holder and a 55 mm MicroNikkor with a 27.5 mm extension tube. This is what I use on my D810. There are less expensive bodies as, for example, the D5000 you mentioned. Or with a 60 mm and no tube. Parallelism guaranteed.

I also have PB-4 bellows and PS-4 slide holder. The ES-1 is easier to set up.

What's your budget?

 

[RLangham]

I would assume that the D5000 has A-mode auto-exposure, no? That should work.

I wouldn’t want to be scanning 35mm wide open. D5000 has no aperture preview to let you meter stopped down, and it can’t read the aperture on pre-AI lenses at all. Now that I say that I realize that I can use the stop down lever on the bellows. I’ll let y’all know what bellows I have when I get home.

For picture taking, which is a secondary concern, I can use full manual as I do with film, no problem.

Hmm. The easiest to set up and use would probably be an ES-1 slide holder and a 55 mm MicroNikkor with a 27.5 mm extension tube. This is what I use on my D810. There are less expensive bodies as, for example, the D5000 you mentioned. Or with a 60 mm and no tube. Parallelism guaranteed.

I also have PB-4 bellows and PS-4 slide holder. The ES-1 is easier to set up.

What's your budget?

My budget is I have a lot of assorted wood, woodworking tools and miscellaneous hardware. Light table probably cheap enough at the craft store. Plus I can drop maybe as much as $200 on a camera body, would prefer to drop like $90, which is what D3000 is going for, but D5000 I think is slightly higher res.

I need to see if my bellows have the notch to mount on AI bodies. I feel like they may? And that opens me up to many more camera bodies.

 

[Chan Tran]

Something with more than 12MP can give you similar result like the scanner. A D3400 would be good. For scanning manual mode is important. There is no need for auto and even if the D3xxx and D5xxx won't meter with bellow it would be just fine. You don't need meter either for scanning.

 

[xkaes]

I wouldn’t want to be scanning 35mm wide open. D5000 has no aperture preview to let you meter stopped down, and it can’t read the aperture on pre-AI lenses at all. Now that I say that I realize that I can use the stop down lever on the bellows. I’ll let y’all know what bellows I have when I get home.

I don't know your options, but on my setup, I can use manual mode or A-mode -- and in A-mode, I can stop-down the f-stop to any aperture for the exposure, but it does not appear in the viewfinder. But that doesn't mean that the A-mode exposure (shutter speed) of the negative or slide or print is "correct" -- but that's true of any setup (P-mode, S-Mode, etc.).

 

[silvergelatin]

Light table probably cheap enough at the craft store.

If you are shooting color film, the light source is the most important part. You should buy something proven for film scanning.

 

[RLangham]

If you are shooting color film, the light source is the most important part. You should buy something proven for film scanning.

I am rarely shooting color film but I'll keep that in mind.

Something with more than 12MP can give you similar result like the scanner. A D3400 would be good. For scanning manual mode is important. There is no need for auto and even if the D3xxx and D5xxx won't meter with bellow it would be just fine. You don't need meter either for scanning.

I think you're quite right, D3400 looks attractive.

I looked and my bellows are the PB6. They have a small crack in one fold of the bellows but it doesn't appear to cause a harmful light leak especially when the bellows are at less than full extension. Out of curiosity I held a friend's Nikon FG up to it... it looked like the aperture coupling ring would clear the mounting ring on the back of the bellows. With his permission I tried it and it does in fact safely mount. But will that be true of other post-AI Nikons? Unsure.

I think at this point my plan is not to get fancy, just to find an ES-1 slide copier and a digital body and see if I can use the bellows to make one of my lenses work with the ES-1. Would I be able to make cardstock shims to fit an uncut negative into the slide copier? Obviously flatness is more important than the absolute distance, since the focus can be adjusted.

 

[Kino]

The D600 is an 24.3-effective-megapixel FX-format full-frame DSLR capable of using most older manual Nikon F mount lenses (AI and beyond) as well as digital only lenses. This should give you a LOT of options for scanning rigs.

Used bodies are not expensive, I picked one up at KEH (bargain grade) for about $200, but watch for ultra-high shutter counts. I read somewhere online that 150K is the average expected shutter count life of this particular model, but mine has 170K and is still going strong.

The current price range there is $178 to $350 from ugly to EX+ respectively...

 

[RLangham]

The D600 is an 24.3-effective-megapixel FX-format full-frame DSLR capable of using most older manual Nikon F mount lenses (AI and beyond) as well as digital only lenses. This should give you a LOT of options for scanning rigs.

Used bodies are not expensive, I picked one up at KEH (bargain grade) for about $200, but watch for ultra-high shutter counts. I read somewhere online that 150K is the average expected shutter count life of this particular model, but mine has 170K and is still going strong.

The current price range there is $178 to $350 from ugly to EX+ respectively...

It’s not unattractive, especially being full frame, but I’d want to be very sure my bellows could safely mount on it, ie. that the prong on the coupling ring for AI lenses isn’t any thicker than the one on the old FG.

 

[Dan Fromm]

II think at this point my plan is not to get fancy, just to find an ES-1 slide copier and a digital body and see if I can use the bellows to make one of my lenses work with the ES-1.

If you have a bellows and a macro lens you don't need the ES-1.

The ES-1 is is a pair of concentric sliding tubes threaded at the rear to fit a lens with 52 mm filter threads such as a 55 or 60 mm MicroNikkor and with a slide holder at the front. The slide holder accepts film strips and single 24x36 negatives. It will give somewhat more than 1:1 with a 55 on a 27.5 mm extension tube (PK-13).

You mentioned having a 50 mm macro lens. Which macro lens do you have? Will it go to 1:1 on its own mount?

 

[reddesert]

The funny thing about Nikon SLR bodies is that even the all-singing, all-dancing, no-metering-with-manual-lenses entry level DSLR bodies, like a D3400, have the mechanical aperture stop-down lever that moves when you fire the shutter. So they work adequately with a manual focus macro lens, you get full aperture viewing, and it stops down to taking aperture, you just don't get metering and have to work in M mode.

OTOH, one of the many DSLR bodies that actually meters with manual focus AI lenses is useful for general photography. This means D200, D300, and so on. The older DX-format ones are fairly inexpensive now.

My limited experience with camera scanning is also that auto exposure isn't particularly good anyway, and you have to tweak the exposure to get something that will work with the contrast adjustments you'll do in post processing.

If you have a 50-55mm macro lens, that plus an extension tube may be a better setup for 1:1 than a bellows, and definitely so if you intend to scan some medium or large format, where the bellows will give too much extension.

 

[Kino]

It’s not unattractive, especially being full frame, but I’d want to be very sure my bellows could safely mount on it, ie. that the prong on the coupling ring for AI lenses isn’t any thicker than the one on the old FG.

All AI lenses fit; older standard F mount, no. You have to use Automatic or Manual, but you still get matrix metering.

 

[RLangham]

The funny thing about Nikon SLR bodies is that even the all-singing, all-dancing, no-metering-with-manual-lenses entry level DSLR bodies, like a D3400, have the mechanical aperture stop-down lever that moves when you fire the shutter. So they work adequately with a manual focus macro lens, you get full aperture viewing, and it stops down to taking aperture, you just don't get metering and have to work in M mode.

OTOH, one of the many DSLR bodies that actually meters with manual focus AI lenses is useful for general photography. This means D200, D300, and so on. The older DX-format ones are fairly inexpensive now.

My limited experience with camera scanning is also that auto exposure isn't particularly good anyway, and you have to tweak the exposure to get something that will work with the contrast adjustments you'll do in post processing.

If you have a 50-55mm macro lens, that plus an extension tube may be a better setup for 1:1 than a bellows, and definitely so if you intend to scan some medium or large format, where the bellows will give too much extension.

I do have I think the 55mm macro from the late pre-AI era, and surely the right extension tube could get it to mount on any body, but I wonder if it’s as sharp as the 5cm Auto Nikkor-S.

 

[Chan Tran]

I am rarely shooting color film but I'll keep that in mind.


I think you're quite right, D3400 looks attractive.

I looked and my bellows are the PB6. They have a small crack in one fold of the bellows but it doesn't appear to cause a harmful light leak especially when the bellows are at less than full extension. Out of curiosity I held a friend's Nikon FG up to it... it looked like the aperture coupling ring would clear the mounting ring on the back of the bellows. With his permission I tried it and it does in fact safely mount. But will that be true of other post-AI Nikons? Unsure.

I think at this point my plan is not to get fancy, just to find an ES-1 slide copier and a digital body and see if I can use the bellows to make one of my lenses work with the ES-1. Would I be able to make cardstock shims to fit an uncut negative into the slide copier? Obviously flatness is more important than the absolute distance, since the focus can be adjusted.

The PB-6 would mount on any Nikon F mount cameras without problem. I have used it on all of my Nikon cameras except the F5. Cameras with the vertical grip can be a problem for example it won't mount on my F5. The ES-1 would be a problem as it is designed to work with only a few Micro lenses from Nikon not just any lenses. The distance between the the front of the lens to the slide is fixed.

 

[RLangham]

The PB-6 would mount on any Nikon F mount cameras without problem. I have used it on all of my Nikon cameras except the F5. Cameras with the vertical grip can be a problem for example it won't mount on my F5. The ES-1 would be a problem as it is designed to work with only a few Micro lenses from Nikon not just any lenses. The distance between the the front of the lens to the slide is fixed.

Surely if you have the bellows you can dial in the focus for the ES-1 regardless?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Surely if you have the bellows you can dial in the focus for the ES-1 regardless?

Not guaranteed, the ES-1's minimum length is ~60 mm. Besides, the ES-1 does the job with no need for the bellows.

I suspect you've put me on ignore.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The ES-1 would be a problem as it is designed to work with only a few Micro lenses from Nikon not just any lenses. The distance between the the front of the lens to the slide is fixed.

You are badly mistaken. Please see post #12 above.

 

[RLangham]

Not guaranteed, the ES-1's minimum length is ~60 mm. Besides, the ES-1 does the job with no need for the bellows.

I suspect you've put me on ignore.

No, I just didn’t see your previous until now but I sure might now.

 

[Chan Tran]

You are badly mistaken. Please see post #12 above.

I don't understand. I don't think you can use the bellow with any lenses that would work with the ES-1. No you don't need the ES-1 at all but the ES-1 only works with a matching Micro lens.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I don't understand. I don't think you can use the bellow with any lenses that would work with the ES-1. No you don't need the ES-1 at all but the ES-1 only works with a matching Micro lens.

In post #16 above you wrote "The distance between the the front of the lens to the slide is fixed."

I just measured my ES-1. Its minimum front of lens barrel-to-slide distance is ~ 67 mm, maximum is ~ 92 mm. What part of "concentric sliding tubes" don't you understand?

The ES-1 should work with any 50 - 60 mm macro lens to which it can be attached. The ES-1 is threaded to fit 52 mm filter threads (M52x0.75, I think). There are adapters (step up/down rings) that can be used to hang it in front of a lens whose filter threads are not 52 mm.

Do you have an ES-1?

 

[RLangham]

At any rate, what I have is the AI Micro Nikkor 55mm/2.8. I don't know why in my head I had it as an pre-AI lens, but it's probably because I don't own an AI body.

Now, on a FX/full frame DSLR, my understanding is I could use that with the ES-1 and an extension tube, since the lens only goes to 1:2.

But since I'm looking mostly at DX/APS-C bodies, the crop factor would mean I would need the film further away and a lower magnification ratio. But it's not quite a crop factor of 1:2, so I'd probably still need an extension tube, right? Would the ES-1 even have enough extension to hold the film far enough away?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

So I know I just posted a thread about my Epson scanner… and then while it was scanning the last frame of a roll last night, something locked up and now it won’t do anything. Seems like the stepper motor may have gotten stuck.

For the time being I have an HP Scanjet G3110 that works with vuescan, but I don’t love anything about it and I’m leary of consumer scanners now, since the Epson was the second flatbed that broke on me during normal operation.

However. I’m a resourceful guy and I own a full macro setup for pre-AI Nikon F mount—bellows, lenses et cetera.

Could I improvise a good camera scanning setup using the macro bellows and some kind of jig to hold the bellows and camera over a simple light table? And if so, can anyone recommend me an older D series to buy at like, $100-200 that will be adequate for this purpose? I can always upgrade to a better camera later as long as it accepts old F mount lenses. I know APS-C will have a crop factor on lenses meant for 35mm, but I’m sure I can design my jig to allow for that, and I also have a standalone macro 50mm if need be. Full frame would be a plus though.

And the good thing about going D-series too is I might even try actual digital photography, since I already like my manual focus F mount lenses.

If it were me, I'd try to get a Nikon slide duplicator and a used D600. That will do the job, but why scanning negatives? Use negatives for darkroom wet printing and digital files for a digital workflow. Mixing the two never gets the best result.

 

[RLangham]

If it were me, I'd try to get a Nikon slide duplicator and a used D600. That will do the job, but why scanning negatives? Use negatives for darkroom wet printing and digital files for a digital workflow. Mixing the two never gets the best result.

Because wet process is expensive. Also this is the hybrid forum. Apparently enough people here see a point.