cursed nikon FE

[fredwhyte]

Hi all, new member from Italy here.

A month ago I purchased a nice and nearly mint condition Nikon FE. I had just to put new light seals and mirror damper (I used the ol' cotton rope&felt pad method).
I took the camera with me around Rome, where I live, and I fed it some films. All good and cool, nice camera, nice lens, fantastic feeling.

BUT life is strange sometimes, and now the dream become a nightmare.

My Nikon FE does not behave good anymore. The problem is this, I will write it down in points.
Conditions:
-brand new batteries
-lightmeter and battery-check light work
-working perfectly in M90 and Bulb settings.
Problem:
-when not in M90 or Bulb settings and I take the shot, the shutter stays open and the mirror stays up. To get both in the resting position I have to 'turn off' the camera (putting the leverage in zero position) or getting to M90 or Bulb settings.

Solutions tried (not working)
-changing batteries
-taking a huge amount of shots without the film at any speed

Has anyone a solution to this problem?
Don't tell me to go to the camera repairing shop, we are all in quarantine at home and can't move.

Cheers!

 

[M-88]

Hello and welcome!

Since you said light meter and b-check work and since shutter/mirror work flawlessly in B and M90 modes, the problem is in electronics and it will be difficult to pinpoint it like this. I disassembled and serviced two of my FEs and it's a pain when things come to electronics and DIY approach to the problem. In the best case, problem is in shutter release electromagnets, because when released electronically, electromagnets keep shutter curtains open longer than M90 or B modes require. And it seems that one of the magnets is not releasing properly.

Bottom line: I think this problem can't be solved easily even if you have tools readily available and you are good at repairs.

Just double-checking: you said "when not in M90 or Bulb", does this mean "Auto" mode too, or just selection of other speeds?

 

[fredwhyte]

Hi! Thank you for the reply.

Yes, the problem it's also in Auto mode.

The strange fact is that for some shots once in a while it behaves normally, the shutter and the mirror go to the rest position as normal.

Do you have schemes and drawnings of the FE?
Do you know where the electromagnets are located?

Thank you again!

 

[M-88]

That is indeed odd. But if the problem is really in magnets, they may fire every once in a while.
How did it break? I mean:

I took the camera with me around Rome, where I live, and I fed it some films. All good and cool, nice camera, nice lens, fantastic feeling.

BUT life is strange sometimes, and now the dream become a nightmare.

My Nikon FE does not behave good anymore. The problem is this, I will write it down in points.

Did it stop working altogether, or did it start to malfunction periodically and then after some time it just died completely?

Down below is the stock picture of Nikon FE shutter. It's a standard Copal Square shutter and the release magnet is square yellow thing on lower left of it:
https://imgur.com/ydwwMbL
You are looking at it from the "lens side", so when in camera, the mechanism itself is right the self-timer/AE lock lever. And here is the repair manual:
https://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/manuels_rep/reflexes/nikon/Nikon_FE_rm.pdf
Be advised that older and newer versions of FE have a few different pieces around the lens mount, so what you will see may be different from what is in that manual. This is also a very good resource with step-by-step instructions on how to remove few parts:
https://richardhaw.com/2018/12/09/repair-nikon-fe/

And the most important thing: unless you are proficient in such things, I recommend you not to try and repair it at home, a lot of things may go wrong and there's a high chance that you will end up with a dead camera, as I did several times, before I learned on my own mistakes.

 

[fredwhyte]

It stopped working altogether. I was taking a picture of my flatmate making pasta from scratch, I was at a 125, I took the shot and the shutter did not close. I was bewildered, and my flatmate too (we both are photoraphers).

I never open/dismantled an analog camera, but I'm in quarantine and I have tools and patience.

Before posting here I did some surf on other sourches in the internet. Some say it could be a problem with a leverage on the bottom of the body. What would you say?

Thank you!

 

[M-88]

It would be very strange if the problem is with leverage, because camera works everytime in M90 and B. But since you have plenty of time, you can try to rule out simple problems like leverage under the camera, or mirror release mechanism/switch inside the camera, first of all.

The thing is, if it stopped working altogether, it's more likely to be electrical problem.

 

[fredwhyte]

Thank you for the infos, very helpful. My fears were about an electronic problem, your experience confirmed them.

I will proceed carefully and I'll document the work. Worst case scenario I'll have a dead camera, that is always a bad thing but the other option is to have to hear "the repair cost it's high and not worth it" by the repair guy, that it's even worst.

The odds to be succesful on the repair are low, but if I'll be successful it will be awesome.

Again, thank you for your support and valuable experience.

 

[M-88]

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and someone will post that it's a mechanical problem. Best of luck to you!

And be safe out there!

 

[fredwhyte]

Thank you.

I will wait a couple of days anyway to see if someone comes up with a different idea.

 

[fredwhyte]

Little update, maybe it changes something.

I was trying to take a huge amount of shots in order to better understand the flaw. I noticed that the problem goes away and come back, it's not consistent in the shooting session. Also I noticed when shutter and mirror get stuck, they come back on the resting position not only at 'leverageZero' or at Bulb and M90, but also when I turn the times knob to a slower time, never when I turn it to a faster time. If I turn the knob to some higher times than the time shutter and mirror got stuck on, and then I turn the knob in the other way, mirror and shutter go back in the resting position.

I was thinking: maybe some dust/oil/shittyPieceOfFoam got in a place where it's not welcome?

 

[shutterfinger]

1. Do not trust the battery check light. It only tells you there is a battery with some power is in the camera. A light meter only puts a low current drain on the battery. Shutters, film advance motors, focus motors put a much higher load on the camera's batteries and weak batteries that check good will fail under the shutter or film advance motor operation. Use only brand name batteries.
2. Physical appearance of the camera's exterior is not an accurate indicator of the camera's internal condition. Remove the batteries and inspect the battery compartment for corrosion. The center contact of the battery compartment should be shiny not dull.
Remove the base plate and inspect the wires at the battery compartment. Discoloration suggest corrosion damage. The center contact of the battery chamber may be pushed down preventing good battery contact.
3. Seal the camera in a plastic bag with little air space and place it in the freezer for an hour or two. Remove it from the freezer and check the shutter operation before it warms up. Next place the camera in direct sun for an hour or two then check operation while hot. Chips used in the camera electronics can separate and fail but heal themselves in temperature extremes.
4. Find another body that works.

EDIT:
Battery failure is the most likely cause per your last post (#10). B and M90 are mechanical not electrical.

 

[Arvee]

I had a similar problem with a 'near mint' Pentax MX. The camera wasn't used very often and the contacts on the shutter speed dial had become oxidized and presented a very high resistance to the shutter speed electronics resulting in very long shutter speeds. I exercised the shutter speed dial approximately 50x (gently back and forth) and it began working properly.

 

[fredwhyte]

I took off the base plate. This is what I see:
Fe bottom https://imgur.com/gallery/35m6pBp

It seems good looking, doesnt it?


I'll try to use the freezer-sun method and also the Pentax one.

Thank you all

 

[BMbikerider]

To me, having experienced this with Minoltas with exactly the same problem it could be 'sticky' shutter magnets. The clue being it resets when you turn the camera off. With the Minolta it was a clean and adjustment was all it needed to get it back, up and running again. Unfortunately it will cost money but if the camera is that good it will be worth it.

 

[shutterfinger]

It seems good looking, doesnt it?

I don't see the battery chamber/compartment in that photo. The wires look good in their mid section as always but the first 1mm to 3mm at the soldered ends is what's important.

 

[fredwhyte]

Shutterfinger, here are 2 pictures for the battery place
Fe battery home
https://imgur.com/gallery/rTxKtjx

 

[Ariston]

I would listen to shutterfinger's help.

Good luck - I have and enjoy this camera.

 

[shutterfinger]

Possible problems I see:

1. solder on the side of the motor drive socket. sloppy work from someone being in there before.
2. possible cold solder joint of the blue wires at the motor drive socket.
3. purple wire kinked, possibly broken internally.
4. center contact of the battery compartment where its braded to the contact strip is a potential failure point.

1 strand of a strainded wire will show continuity on an ohm meter but it will not carry enough current to operate the electronics.
The motor drive socket/contacts disconnect the camera battery from the circuit and powers the camera from the motor drive batteries. The contacts look lightly corroded from age and may be causing insufficient current from the battery from reaching the shutter circuit.

 

[fredwhyte]

About the cold/hot thing, should I put the FE in the freezer and then in the sun or should I do it in different times?
About the wiring, what would you do, Shutterfinger?

Thank you all for the support! It's magic

 

[shutterfinger]

About the wiring, what would you do, Shutterfinger?

This is where I would start. I would flush the motor drive socket with electrical contact cleaner or disassemble it, clean the contacts and springs then reassemble it if it can be disassembled.
Next I would use a 25 watt soldering iron and remove the suspected bad solder then resolder the connection.
As for the kinked wire if the kink is close to the end I would trim the wire back just past the kink and resolder it to its terminal otherwise straighten the wire or replace it.

If you have never soldered before heat the wire and contact with the iron until they will melt the solder, apply the solder, remove the iron and allow the connection to cool without touching or moving it. Too hot will melt/burn the wire insulation. Only use rosin core solder on electrical connections.

Do the cold first then the heat. Pause a half hour between.

No magic involved!

 

[BobD]

I would first try swabbing the battery chamber with alcohol and wiping off the batteries with same. Even if all looks clean.

If that doesn't work I would then try working the shutter speed and ISO dials and aperture coupler (surrounding lens mount) back and forth many times.

 

[M-88]

I had a similar problem with a 'near mint' Pentax MX. The camera wasn't used very often and the contacts on the shutter speed dial had become oxidized and presented a very high resistance to the shutter speed electronics resulting in very long shutter speeds. I exercised the shutter speed dial approximately 50x (gently back and forth) and it began working properly.

But MX is fully mechanical, while FE has electronic release of all speeds except 1/90 and bulb.

 

[Robin Guymer]

Hi Fred, Life sounds tough in Italy at present and we are not looking too good here either. I have 3 FE's and with the best looking one I had exactly the problem you describe. When I first purchased it as parts not working, I was able to free it up with some silicon spray and put it on a motor drive firing off lots of shots till it seemed to work okay. I then ran some film through it and on the second roll it failed with mirror locked up. For 2 years it sat in the dead camera section till last month I took the bottom off and tinkered with a small screw driver and toothpick just tripping different parts of the mechanism to see if it would fire. I also scrapped the battery terminals with a scalpel type craft knife as even though electrical cleaner seems to clean connections, I have found that there can still be a residue that prevents proper connection. Just a bit if scrapping so the metal shines can give a better connection and bending up the lower terminal so it presses harder into the battery. Now maybe also with the poking around I moved a wire slightly that was shorting who knows. But with fresh batteries it fired up superbly and is now running like a charm. Wish the same worked on that dead FA. Hope this helps.

 

[fredwhyte]

Hi Robin!

I start to think the more good looking FE are, more are the odds they have some problems - it seems like a camera that need to be used quite on a daily basis. I spoke with other Italian FE users, and whom use it since the day they purchased it (decades ago) still use theire FE without any problems.

Speaking about mine I procedeed like this, following your suggestions guys.
First I proceeded with Shutterfinger's cold-hot method:
-I put the FE body in a plastic bag, sealed it and then I put it in the freezer for 2 hours, batteries out.
After 2 hours in the freezer I checked the shutter at the mechanical modes and it was working properly. I put the batteries, the camera was dead (I guess it was too cold for these poor 3V). I didn't wait to it to get to room temperature.
-Since today here is not sunny, I put the FE body in a space at 35-45°C (95-113°F) for another hour/hour and a half, batteries out. After an hour I started to move back and forth the speeds dial and the ISO one, as suggested by Arvee and BobD, for 10 to 20 times; I did around 5 sessions of dials moving, while the FE was 'hot'.
-I deep cleaned with alcol the battery compartment, the contacts and the batteries, as suggested by BobD.
-I put new batteries and checked the shutter at every speed for at least 10 times per speed, I did this for more than 5 sessions.

Conclusion: the FE seems to be back to me. I put a film roll and start shooting again (around the house, stay safe in these days!!!)

I hope it's not going to have the same problem.
For the moment, from Rome it's all.
I wholeheartly thank you everyone, this looks like a very nice community.
See you soon, hopefully not on this thread!
CHEERS

 

[Scott Murphy]

The FE is a pretty old camera, first coming out in the late 70's. Although all of my mechanical Nikons from that period (actually somewhat earlier), my F2A and Nikkormat FT2 still work flawlessly, the electronics in a predominantly electronic camera from that period like the FE will eventually fail over time. I suppose you could send it off to Nikon but I doubt that they would be able to do anything with it and would charge you a bunch of $$ to tell you that.