Current reciprocity champion in 4x5 sheet film

[TheFlyingCamera]

What's the current reigning champion of 4x5 sheet film for low reciprocity? Tmax 100, Delta 100? I know in theory Acros II is the champ, but if they make it in 4x5 you can't get it here in the US. I want to do some pinhole with the human figure, so I'm looking for something that isn't going to run into the tens of minutes for exposure in daylight.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

It would be between TMX and D100, with TMX having a slight edge... I'd put my money in D100. Cheaper up here to begin with, and for "other" reasons that I will not get into I wish we could still get Acros in 4x5...

• 10-Second Metered Exposure:
  • Delta 100
    : Needs approximately 12–18 seconds.
  • T-Max 100
    : Needs approximately 11–15 seconds.
• 60-Second Metered Exposure:
  • Delta 100
    : Needs approximately 80–174 seconds (varies by source/chart).
  • T-Max 100
    : Needs approximately 90–120 seconds.

 

[armadsen]

If you shoot color, Provia, which is still available in 4x5, requires no compensation for exposures up to 2 minutes.

 

[abruzzi]

If you shoot color, Provia, which is still available in 4x5, requires no compensation for exposures up to 2 minutes.

While this is in the B&W serction, I think this is worth pointing out. A lot of people don't realize that Provia is essentially the Acros for color.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Even though I will never shoot Provia, that's good to know!

 

[mshchem]

If you shoot color, Provia, which is still available in 4x5, requires no compensation for exposures up to 2 minutes.

I did not know that. That's interesting.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Even though I will never shoot Provia, that's good to know!

Never say never Andy. You never know. I will say I probably won't shoot it either, but it's nice to know about its not needing any compensation for up to two minutes.

 

[jeffreyg]

Why not try Ilford HP5. It's faster and you could probably push it a stop (time). I've used it for 4x5 for pinhole usually contact prints in pt/pd. All three on HP5 developed in Id11. Incident readings from Gossen Ultra Pro with the pinhole times from a dial calculator.

PT/PD PRINT SCAN Titan pinhole

NEGATIVE SCAN Titan pinhole



PT/PD PRINT FROM CAMERA NEGATIVE Toyo 4x5

 

[loccdor]

Nice squid. That was my junior high dissection project.

 

[loccdor]

Anybody ever try to make a sheet of (almost) 4x5 Acros by taping two 120's together?

 

[jeffreyg]

Nice squid. That was my junior high dissection project.

They were bait for a fishing trip.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Why not try Ilford HP5. It's faster and you could probably push it a stop (time). I've used it for 4x5 for pinhole usually contact prints in pt/pd. All three on HP5 developed in Id11. Incident readings from Gossen Ultra Pro with the pinhole times from a dial calculator.

PT/PD PRINT SCAN Titan pinhole



NEGATIVE SCAN Titan pinhole



PT/PD PRINT FROM CAMERA NEGATIVE Toyo 4x5

The why not is that when you get into longer exposure times, the reciprocity compensation quickly goes into overdrive and you end up with longer exposure times than you do with shooting the "slower" films.

 

[koraks]

The why not is that when you get into longer exposure times, the reciprocity compensation quickly goes into overdrive and you end up with longer exposure times than you do with shooting the "slower" films.

Exactly. I asked the question of Copilot, which pulled in data from the various datasheets - still, it's AI, so 'all bets are off' and all that. Its answer is that around 10-20s exposures, HP5+ (even if pushed a stop) loses its apparent advantage due to worse reciprocity characteristics. The tipping point is a little earlier in comparison with TMAX100 and a little later when compared to Delta 100. So HP5+ really only is faster for exposures into the single-digit seconds range; beyond that, what counts is not so much native ISO/EI, but reciprocity behavior.

 

[koraks]

That's "Acros 100 vs the rest". Now try e.g. TMAX 100 vs. the other options. Note that Acros wasn't an option to begin with because it's not available in sheet format.

 

[loccdor]

The practical take-away for 4x5 film is that T-MAX 400 beats everything in terms of speed of night exposures. T-MAX 100 will never catch up to it, although it's a film with good long exposure characteristics too.

 

[romosoho]

Just ran a query on Gemini on TMY's reciprocity. That is impressive, indeed. I'm seeing only 1/2 a stop even at 100s.

I am thinking I'll load data sheets into Notebook LM and have them handy when needed..

 

[jeffreyg]

The why not is that when you get into longer exposure times, the reciprocity compensation quickly goes into overdrive and you end up with longer exposure times than you do with shooting the "slower" films.

I don't doubt what you say. I just haven't run into any problems with my pinhole photography although it's all been outdoors and no people have been photographed. I don't record the time. Maybe just lucky.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The practical take-away for 4x5 film is that T-MAX 400 beats everything in terms of speed of night exposures. T-MAX 100 will never catch up to it, although it's a film with good long exposure characteristics too.

Where are you seeing this information? Everything I've seen has TMX outperforming TMY at longer than 1 minute base exposure times.

For example, on the Film Reciprocity Calculator website, TMX (Tmax 100) clocks in at 393 seconds actual vs 180 seconds metered, whereas TMY (Tmax 400) clocks in at 626 seconds actual vs 180 seconds metered.

 

[loccdor]

Where are you seeing this information? Everything I've seen has TMX outperforming TMY at longer than 1 minute base exposure times.

For example, on the Film Reciprocity Calculator website, TMX (Tmax 100) clocks in at 393 seconds actual vs 180 seconds metered, whereas TMY (Tmax 400) clocks in at 626 seconds actual vs 180 seconds metered.

Are you adjusting for the difference in film speed? Essentially they both have low enough reciprocity failure that for non-crazy exposures T-MAX 400 will always be shorter in time.

In other words, you need to compare 180 seconds metered to 45 seconds metered.

 

[mshchem]

Nice squid. That was my junior high dissection project.

Yeah, me too!

 

[DREW WILEY]

If you want faster speed, I'd opt for TMY400 rather than HP5. But two questions. What do you mean by long exposures? 30 seconds or so, or many minutes?

Second, are contrast filters involved? With certain of those in play, TMax 100 will have a distinct advantage over Delta 100 in terms of long exp corrections. And for most practical purposes, TMax is faster than D100 anyway due to its longer straight line. Same goes for TMY400 versus HP5.

Color? Call it dumb luck if you want to, but I just developed an 8x10 sheet of Ektar which involved a loaded filmholder which had lain around a couple years too long, and then another year after it was exposed. It was deep inside a giant hollow redwood trunk in extremely dim light, shooting at f/45. I was pretty much guessing the long exposure factor. I was pessimistic about it truning out well, but figured that I might as well use up the last of that particular box of film before it got too old. It turned out perfectly. Now that I know the gamble worked, I have a companion 8x10 shot still to develop. And I've learned something new about the film itself, which will prove useful in analogous settings.

With processing, 8X10 color film is now running around $50 a shot. I have a good reserve of it in the freezer which I bought at substantially lower price, but certainly don't want to take chances. If I had anticipated that particular set of shots in advance, I would have done a bracketing test on roll film instead.

Alas, Acros is no longer made in sheet fashion. I used up my last 4x5 sheets of it a few months ago, and the last of my 8x10 nearly a decade ago. A know a couple of people who bought up entire cases of 4x5 for personal use, 120 boxes per case (2400 sheets in all), when huge dealer discounts were involved right near the end. I paid $2.50 per roll of 120 at that time (with a single 5 pk now left). Quite a sticker shock when Acros II came out at $12.50 a roll; but I tried it anyway, and liked it even better.

 

[loccdor]

I've put together a chart which uses the same light value (LV 0 - Dim ambient artificial light, typical low light night shot). 4x5 in bold. Ranked by shortest real exposure time to longest. HP5+ and Tri-X really don't do that bad at reasonable exposure times.

Exponent	Film	LV0 Metered Time (f/16) in Seconds	Real Time
1.25​	Kodak T-Max P3200	8​	13​
1.31​	Ilford Delta 3200	8​	15​
1.24​	Kodak T-Max 400	64​	170​
1.31​	Ilford Delta 400	64​	233​
1.31​	Ilford HP5+ 400	64​	233​
1.35​	Kodak Tri-X 400	64​	274​
1.02​	Fuji Acros 100	256​	361​
1.45​	Fomapan 400	64​	414​
1.15​	Kodak T-Max 100	256​	588​
1.26​	Ilford FP4+ 125	205​	802​
1.38​	Fomapan 200	128​	811​
1.26​	Ilford Delta 100	256​	1048​
1.30​	Adox Silvermax 100	256​	1351​
1.35​	Adox CHS 100 II	256​	1755​
1.21​	Adox HR-50	512​	1894​
1.33​	Ilford Pan F+ 50	512​	2298​
1.25​	Agfa Copex Rapid 50	512​	2410​
1.26​	Adox CMS 20 II	1280​	8102​
1.94​	Fomapan 100	256​	24195​

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I've put together a chart which uses the same light value (LV 0 - Dim ambient artificial light, typical low light night shot). 4x5 in bold. Ranked by shortest real exposure time to longest. HP5+ and Tri-X really don't do that bad at reasonable exposure times.

Exponent	Film	LV0 Metered Time (f/16) in Seconds	Real Time
1.25​	Kodak T-Max P3200	8​	13​
1.31​	Ilford Delta 3200	8​	15​
1.24​	Kodak T-Max 400	64​	170​
1.31​	Ilford Delta 400	64​	233​
1.31​	Ilford HP5+ 400	64​	233​
1.35​	Kodak Tri-X 400	64​	274​
1.02​	Fuji Acros 100	256​	361​
1.45​	Fomapan 400	64​	414​
1.15​	Kodak T-Max 100	256​	588​
1.26​	Ilford FP4+ 125	205​	802​
1.38​	Fomapan 200	128​	811​
1.26​	Ilford Delta 100	256​	1048​
1.30​	Adox Silvermax 100	256​	1351​
1.35​	Adox CHS 100 II	256​	1755​
1.21​	Adox HR-50	512​	1894​
1.33​	Ilford Pan F+ 50	512​	2298​
1.25​	Agfa Copex Rapid 50	512​	2410​
1.26​	Adox CMS 20 II	1280​	8102​
1.94​	Fomapan 100	256​	24195​

Tri-X does fall apart at longer times though - once you get into multiple minutes metered, it becomes multiple hours adjusted. I tried a night-time shot with Tri-X in my Vermeer 6x18 pinhole (f/300) and gave it IIRC 45 minutes exposure. I got nearly blank film.