CURRENT info C-41 chemicals Or C-41 for Dummies????

[Cymen]

Calumet would be my first choice in Chicago.

Excellent -- I checked Central and a couple others but forgot to check Calumet. I'll take a look there (and at eBay).

 

[Cymen]

I've found everything except the "Kodak Final Rinse" at Calumet. The final rinses they have are for E-6. I do see "Kodak Flexicolor SM (C-41SM) Tank Final Rinse" for $2.50 at B&H which makes 5L and is Kodak #1925254. That item should not be considered hazardous material if I've got things straight so it can be ordered with normal shipping charges. It does have a minimum order requirement of 12 at B&H though.

Kodak C41 Developer Starter - makes 17.8 gallons (per B&H)
Calumet # KP02844
Mfg. Part # 1953009
$6.99

Kodak Indicator Stop Bath - makes 8 gallons (per Calumet)
Calumet # KP02024
Mfg. Part # 1464247
$6.29

Kodak C41 Bleach Start - makes 20 gallons (per B&H)
Calumet # KP02849
Mfg. Part # 8566796
$14.99

Kodak C-41 Fixer and Replenisher - makes 5 gallons (per B&H)
Calumet # KP02854
Mfg. Part # 1693837
$9.99

I'm posting as the exact details isn't always clear so hopefully someone can confirm the above is correct (or at least one version of correct!).

 

[fotch]

Thanks for the update. I am curious about the shipping cost from Calumet. Truck, UPS, ??. Not sure where South Central WI is, I am SE, near Kenosha.

Perhaps I should consider driving to Chicago area to pick up but its perhaps 3+ hours round trip plus tolls, in my gas guzzler.

 

[mtjade2007]

Another possibl source of chemicals is your local camera flea market, swap meet, photo fair or whatever they call them. I once saw a local photographic store selling all their chemical inventory in a photo fair. No, it's not selling. It's dumping. They have a few box full of all they had from their store and the price was "make an offer". I took all their C-41 stuff for something like $20. I regret that I did not take any of their RA-4 stuff. I could have that too for maybe another $10. I don't print with my enlarger any more.

 

[Cymen]

Thanks for the update. I am curious about the shipping cost from Calumet. Truck, UPS, ??. Not sure where South Central WI is, I am SE, near Kenosha.

Perhaps I should consider driving to Chicago area to pick up but its perhaps 3+ hours round trip plus tolls, in my gas guzzler.

I'm about an hour southwest of Madison. I'm driving down in a couple weeks and I'm hoping Calumet in Chicago will take my order over the phone and I can pick it up then. I'm still not certain I've got the list right (and I wish I could find the final rinse solution at Calumet so there was no need to order from B&H).

 

[mtjade2007]

......and shipped without hazmat charges (illegally of course).....

I don't know how it is determined that it is illegal. I searched USPS web site and could not find clearly spelled out words that say it is illegal to ship any particular photographic chemical. If one ships one and if it leaks the shipper may face a steep legal battle. It is unclear how steep such a battle may be.

The funny thing is when I last visited Chang's Photo Supply (a chemical/paper supplier to California processing labs) they had a van fully loaded with chemicals ready to make their daily delivery all over the San Francisco Bay Area. It is of course legal to ship such high volume of chemicals in a van that is not any different from all the vans running in the streets. It is only illegal when you pay the government agency (USPS) to ship a few small bottles of the same thing. I guess their large fleet of USPS trucks and vans for some reason are not safe enough to do the job. It is however, extremely effective in killing all mail order sales of (small quantity of) photographic chemicals.

 

[Cymen]

I don't know how it is determined that it is illegal. I searched USPS web site and could not find clearly spelled out words that say it is illegal to ship any particular photographic chemical. ....

Not that I disagree but I believe it is UPS not USPS that was specifically mentioned. Although it gets complicated now that USPS handles the final delivery for some packages from other shippers (UPS may be among them, not sure).

The UPS hazardous material details are here:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/index.html

 

[mtjade2007]

Thanks for the link. It does say, under the web page "Common items that may be hazardous", that photographic supply "Could contain acids, corrosive materials, bleaches, or poisonous materials". Such a statement is so unclear that it may or may not apply to anything photographic. I guess if one ships a bottle of distilled water for photographic use it may be hazardous too. If it spills the shipper will be in big trouble if the bottle says photographic supply.

My guess (again just a guess) is since it is not specifically spelled out you can ship them as long as they do not spill. Once there is a spill the shipper will be 100% liable for the consequence. Only hazmat licensed shipper can ship (and spill) without liabilities.

 

[fotch]

I'm about an hour southwest of Madison. I'm driving down in a couple weeks and I'm hoping Calumet in Chicago will take my order over the phone and I can pick it up then. I'm still not certain I've got the list right (and I wish I could find the final rinse solution at Calumet so there was no need to order from B&H).

I wonder about the Kodak C41 Bleach Start. I think this won't work as Bleach by itself and that just ordering the Bleach and using one shot without Starter is the way. Then again, I don't know. I tried to check this out earlier today but find out anything conclusive about it.

 

[Cymen]

I think all those numbers are wrong as they are for Kodak Flexicolor not Kodak Flexicolor SM. It looks like I made the same mistakes as those earlier in this thread. Not sure how I missed some of the posts here.

I noticed Unique Photo has everything needed but minimum requirements make the total $272.02 plus $38.80 for UPS ground to my location. Ordering just the developer and bleach from them would be $112.67 plus $16.31 for UPS ground. That would be 6 x 1756337 @ $8.15/per which is Kodak Flexicolor SM Tank Developer 2L and 2 x 8824690 @ $23.73/per which is Kodak Flexicolor SM Tank Bleach 2.7G (the 6 and 2 are the minimum order amount at that site).

Removed some excessive griping about getting these chemicals. It appears to be possible with some legwork. I'll ask Unique Photo if there is any additional shipping fee.

 

[stevewillard]

I'm quoting the whole post so people don't miss this -- I just spoke with Victor and they can't ship the bleach or developer chemicals via UPS. They can ship the other chemicals via UPS. They do offer shipment via truck for the bleach or developer but that is expensive for long distance. Something to keep in mind while trying to find a source for these chemicals. The truck shipment was estimated to be around $65-70 to Madison, Wisconsin. Victor did suggest contacting Kodak if a local source couldn't be found. He was very helpful but unfortunately UPS makes it impractical to ship these those two chemicals as the special permits are expensive and add a hefty charge to every shipment.

Anyone have a source in Chicago?

I have been investigating ways one could possible ship the chemicals. I looked at USPS, FedEx, UPS, and Grayhound Bus. All of them will not ship items considered corrosive which is what C-41 bleach and developer is considered. These new restrictions are a result of 911.

I believe shipping by freight will add an extra $35 to the freight charge if the chemicals are corrosive. Base on their shipping fees I do not think there will be much difference in freight charges for one bottle or ten bottles of chemistry. Perhaps the only solution is to suck up the freight charges and order enough chemistry for several years and refrigerate the unmixed chemistry. This is a real mess. Some kind of distinction should be made for mildly corrosive chemistry.

If you have a friend or belong to a club that uses C-41, you could batch up your orders and split the shipping cost between you.

 

[brucemuir]

The hardest thing to source is the Bleach.

Adorama will ship smaller sizes of Flexicolor Developer/Replenisher (you dont necessarily need to use the SM version) but of course they are out of both types and the Developer starter also.

You just need to watch their site because they don't have a "notify when in stock" option like B/H does. If you see they have the products, dont delay because the stuff gets snatched up these days.

I feel your pain because it took me a month to figure out the best strategy and I eventually resorted to eBay for an off brand Bleach that ended up being a decent deal.

I did just receive my RA 4 stuff from Adorama in the 10L sizes so we'll see how that goes.

 

[naugastyle]

I just got my bleach off eBay as well, even though I currently don't need it...still have 4 liters of Tetenal left to use. I am too easily swayed by bold letters saying "LAST ONE!" It's damn heavy...wish I could have had it delivered to my home instead of office but of course...it's UPS and UPS is a pain in the ass for home delivery in NYC.

Anyway, I mentioned last night at Adorama how sometimes things are on the website but aren't actually in the store--last night that item was Photographer's Formulary hypo-test, grrr--and the guy said the site only reflects what should be in stock in their warehouse in New Jersey, which is why the website will claim certain things I can't find are in stock...which I guess shouldn't affect online orders, but it's frustrating for locals. I've been wondering about all those C41 chems myself. I don't think I've ever seen them on the shelf. They may be in the basement...but I'd be betting New Jersey on that one too.

 

[mtjade2007]

B&H, Adorama, or whatever all sell Kodak chemicals at retail prices. If you need shipping the total cost of chemical purchase can be difficult. I am in California and there is no way I can purchse chemicals from NY City. The largest photographic supplier that I can reach locally sells only the smallest packages with much ballooned prices. I understand their store front overhead. I had to look for a better solution.

Well, the Bay Area is a large area with a lot of cities. There must be wholesale suppliers who supply chemicals to photo labs in the Bay Area. I made friend with a minilab owner by giving him some business. Then I asked him to tell me where the wholesale suppliers are. I successfully located Chang's Photo Supply headquartered in Los Angeles but with a distribution warehouse in Hayward (East Bay of Bay Area). I do have to buy larger quantity of chemicals at a time. But the prices were way down from retail prices and I can pick up the chemicals myself.

This is Chang's Photo Supply web site: http://www.changsphoto.com/

I am not related to Chang's Photo in any way. The web site info is for anyone who is looking for ways to source chemicals to get an idea what's typically available from a wholesale supplier. You need to find one like that in your area and try to buy from there. Don't worry about buying bulk. Unopened chemicals can last several years. I have dealt with two such suppliers. They did not mind if I am a business or not. They did not mind the total dollar amount I spent with them. Chang's photo did ask me for a CA sales permit number. I did have one so it was easy. But I believe you just need to tell them that you have a Jobo ATL processor. They will sell whatever they have to anyone.

By the way, the warehouse of both suppliers were impressive. They have tons of supplies that made my eyes wide open. What's more impressive is they said it takes maybe 10 days for all that piles of stuff to clear and be restocked again. I was happy to fill up the trunk of my car before leaving. The second supplier was in Los Angeles and I have forgotten its name.

 

[fotch]

Since I am near Chicago (50miles) and use to live there, I thought for sure there must be a supplier somewhere in the area. Well, I could not find any. I did find one in Milwaukee (a wee bit closer) however, they were acquired by a larger firm, and they closed Milwaukee and now everything gets shipped from the Twin Cities.

I also called some of the larger camera stores, Central Camera, Helix, apparently they never sell color chemicals any more. Calumet, if they have it in stock, would be the best option, although I would rather not have to travel that far to pick up.

I am hoping that Photographic Formula succeeds in their repackaging of the chemicals and that they are an affordable solution. I think its likely they will have the right chemicals.

 

[naugastyle]

I did consider talking to the lab owners I'm friendly with, but the problem with living in New York is unless you live in a way-out neighborhood or are super-rich, you are unlikely to have the space for bulk chemicals. I am stuffed to the gills already....eventually got all my mixed b/w and color chems stashed away in two different cupboards but the Tetenal concentrates are still just sitting in their box in a corner of the room. Now that I've seen the size (and weight) of the Bleach III I bought off eBay, I know I can't get any more chems this size. Retail price is OK when size--small size--matters .

 

[keyofnight]

Hey folks—I'm a dummy and I'm in need of some help, so I'm reviving yet another old C41 thread.

So one of the cool things I've read about Flexicolor SM is that there is no starter needed—just mix up the tank solution with their 2L kit and use their (presumably stronger) replenisher.

Kodak also has this nifty document CIS-49 with a section on "Preparing Tank Solutions from Replenisher Solutions." Flexicolor SM, for some reason, is left out of the list. They have the straight Flexicolor developer, AR, LORR, LORR LU… but not SM! It seems to me that it should be easy enough to make Flexicolor SM tank developer from the replenisher solution since SM doesn't require a starter… so would you folks have any idea how?

 

[RPC]

If you can make tank solution from the SM kit with no starter, then why do you want to make it from a replenisher? Replenishers I have seen and used do require starter to make tank solution, so if the SM doesn't require it, then it is likely straight developer and not replenisher, and that's why it was left off the list. Perhaps the straight developer can be used to replenish as well? If it also comes in a separate replenisher form, I don't know why it was left off the list.

 

[keyofnight]

If you can make tank solution from the SM kit with no starter, then why do you want to make it from a replenisher? Replenishers I have seen and used do require starter to make tank solution, so if the SM doesn't require it, then it is likely straight developer and not replenisher, and that's why it was left off the list. Perhaps the straight developer can be used to replenish as well? If it also comes in a separate replenisher form, I don't know why it was left off the list.

Exactly! In the sell sheets, they say "…use this developer in C-41SM minilabs for making tank solution, or small tanks and tube-type processors without replenishment. No starter is needed…" but they make no mention of how to mix the tank solution outside of the labels on boxes for a few of the products. If you have their processing units F1 and F2, there are no documents online that'll show you how to mix these chemicals.

So! I sent an e-mail to Kodak in the hopes that they could help:

I was looking through the processing manuals (Z) for Flexicolor SM chemistry and related technical publications (CIS), and I found a nice gem: CIS-49, or "Preparing Smaller-Than-Package-Size Amounts of KODAK Processing Chemicals." In this document, I found a handy chart that shows how to mix tank solutions from replenishers. All of the developers are there—Flexicolor, LORR, LORR LU, AR, etc.—but the Flexicolor SM process is not included in the document at all. It would be really nice to mix up a tank developer solution using the A, B, and C developer parts.

Is there any way you could tell me the right ratios I need to make tank developer? It would probably be enough to tell me how much of the A, B, and C solutions are included in the following package: KODAK FLEXICOLOR SM Tank Developer—To make 2 litres, CAT No. 175 6337.


Thanks in advance for your help!

They just responded:

Thank you for contacting Kodak Professional Technical Support.


You are absolutely correct! We do need to update this publication and hope to do so in the near future.


In the interim, I have attached a document that should address some of your needs.

The document they sent contains label art and instructions that go with Flexicolor SM tank developer / fixer. It also contains instructions for Ektacolor RA2 SM tank developer, bleach/fix, and stabilizer. So cool! I've attached their document to this post!