CURRENT info C-41 chemicals Or C-41 for Dummies????

[naugastyle]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, mtjade2007.

 

[stradibarrius]

Here is the Kodak chemical list I have assembled for someone here to tell me if these are correct.
Flexicolor SM developer Kodak #1756337
Flexicolor Bleach III kodak # 8940801
Flexicolor Fixer/replenisher # 1983550
Flexicolor Stablizer 8729956

Is this the correct developer?????
I found it a B&H for $7.50 and 1 qt. makes 17.8 gals.
* B&H# KOFDSQ * Mfr# * 1953009

 

[mtjade2007]

I looked up B&H to see this item. It is a Kodak C-41 Developer Starter. It is not the same as a C-41 developer. You need to have a developer replenisher first. To make a C-41 developer you mix developer replenisher with small amount of starter and some water. Here is a 5 gallon package of C-41 developer replenisher. The price is $29.95. Unfortunately B&H will not ship this item.

* B&H # KOFDR5G * Mfr # 1919042

The photos of the chemicals at B&H site are not actual photos of the chemicals. They are mostly wrong. For example a C-41 developer replenisher should contain 3 bottles, Part A B and C, not 4 bottles as shown at the site. Most photos are not correct, some are not even close.

B&H appears to not ship almost all film chemicals. If you are near New York City you are lucky. You may need to talk to your local photography store that sells some chemicals. They can order Kodak chemicals for you. I deal with a mini lab wholesale supplier. I provided a number of California Sales Permit (easy to get, costs almost nothing) and a business name (I own it, but not a mini lab). The wholesale supplier has a will call department. I went there to pick up my chemical order as small as $10 at one time. If they ask you about the kind of processor you use just tell them you have a Jobo ATL. Not because it matters. Just so that they won't feel you are just trying to buy wholesale as an individual.

 

[naugastyle]

Bumping this again because now that I've finally processed some rolls the chemicals are a bit more clear to me, but I still have some questions.

I'm in New York and it seems Adorama has everything necessary while B&H is all special-order (surprising).

Dead Link Removed

So the questions:

1) You don't need both stabilizer and rinse, right? I'm currently using stabilizer with my Tetenal kit but people who are using Kodak seem to only be using rinse, even though Kodak produces a stabilizer chemical. Is it an either/or thing??
2) Bleach is special order at both Adorama and B&H. The price is a significant difference ($13) which is usually not the case between these stores, which makes me question are these really the same thing? Understood that Kodak's photos may be incorrect, but both say they make 1 gallon.
3) Bleach replenisher through all the normal online stores is crazy expensive, but this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Color-Negative-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cea6be6e6 can be used to replenish the Kodak Flexicolor bleach, correct?
4) I'm confused as to why developer starter and replenisher are separate, bleach and bleach replenisher are separate, but fixer is apparently fixer/replenisher in one. Just want to make sure there isn't a "fixer starter" that for some reason isn't available to buy.

 

[Photo Engineer]

You can use either stabilzer or final rinse on modern color films in C-41, but with films pre about 2005, you must use the stabilzer. The dye set changed and this changed the way the dyes are stabilzed and the film is protected. Make sure you use the correct final chemical with your C-41 films.

Starters are not needed for anything actually except for the developer replenisher in order to pre-season it. Kodak sells a plain Developer for C41 which is used without replenisher or starter for small tank processing.

PE

 

[naugastyle]

Thanks for clearing up the stablizer/rinse thing! As for the developer...if you WANTED to use replenisher, can you buy that later and replenish the plain developer with it, or does the replenisher only work with starter? Mainly just out of curiosity, as the local shops don't sell the regular Flexicolor developer anyway.

Oh, and I poked around more on B&H and now see the same bleach starter there. The other bottle that was more expensive was plain Bleach III.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If you run a single use C-41 process, you need either fresh developer each time, or you need fresh developer replenisher + starter each time, or you can run mutiple uses of the developer conditions above, but you must change developer times as noted on the Kodak and Fuji web sites.

OTOH, you can run a seasoned process by starting with a tank of Developer Replenisher + starter and then using replenisher after each process, adding replenisher based on the time / square footage tables on the Kodak or Fuji web sites. In this case, you never exhaust the tank, you just replenish and you do not change the development time at all.

This goes back to my answer of your other question in the other thread.

PE

 

[stevewillard]

I have been in contact with Sherry at Photographer's Formulary since last March about their C-41 chemistry. Here is the latest email I just received from her dated October 27th.

• 
  HI Stephen
  What we are going to be selling is Kodak's C-41 chemistry but it will be packaged to make 1 liter of working solution. So the instructions you have for the Kodak will work as far as steps. It will consist of the developer bleach and fix I'm not sure about the stabilizer I don't think we are doing that portion with the stuff we have.
  Sherry

Please email Sherry at formulary@blackfoot.net and express your interest in their efforts.

Furthermore, you can get Kodak C41 Flexicolor SM developer for mini labs that makes a 2 L batch. It is the same chemistry as the one gallon mix that Kodak discontinued. It is a one shot developer that will work just fine with JOBO drums. B&H does not carry it, and it is hard to find, but I have a source for those that are interested as follows:

• 
  Denver Pro Photo
  235 S Cherokee St.
  Denver CO 80223
  Phone: 303-698-1790 or 866-360-4940
  Fax: 303-698-1720
  Website: www.denverprophoto.com

Ask for Victor Guarino. He will take care of you. They will ship the stuff anywhere.

Here is the C41 chemistry I purchase from Denver Pro Photo with volumes and prices:

• Kodak Flexicolor SM Develper 2L $15.92
• Kodak Indicator Stop 16 oz. $7.25
• Trebla Beach 5L $31.16
• Trebla Fixer 5L $4.75
• Kodak Final Rinse 5L $6.25

Hope this helps...

 

[stevewillard]

For those of you who want to batch up your development jobs and save chemistry, I have done some testing in this area. I have found that there is NO difference between film just exposed and developed immediately, and film that was exposed a year before it was developed.

Based on my testing, I only develop my film once a year, and have had no problems. I shoot all spring, summer, and fall and then develop all of my film at once in November. This affords me the time to make a test run before I process the real stuff just to make sure everything is working properly.

 

[DanielStone]

For those of you who want to batch up your development jobs and save chemistry, I have done some testing in this area. I have found that there is NO difference between film just exposed and developed immediately, and film that was exposed a year before it was developed.

Based on my testing, I only develop my film once a year, and have had no problems. I shoot all spring, summer, and fall and then develop all of my film at once in November. This affords me the time to make a test run before I process the real stuff just to make sure everything is working properly.

unfortunately steve,

most people on here aren't that patient :rolleyes:. I know I'm not

-Dan

 

[naugastyle]

This is excellent information Steve, both the Photographer's Formulary stuff and the Denver Photo contact. Thanks so much.

My first batch (this week) included a roll that was STARTED in June but took a long time for me to finish (maybe finished shooting in September, hard to remember now when I took it out). Can't speak to the differences between that and the ones I shot this weekend though, as I also can't say my first round of developing was 100% successful. Definitely a lot of color casts to deal with, and too much grain on a couple rolls. Not the same quality as the $2.50 drugstore negs at all, and in the bad sense...including more dust & smudges to spot out .

 

[jglass]

Yes, Steve, thanks for the info on Denver photo and the formulary. I have emailed Sherry.

ALL, especially PE : Is there any issue with the Trebla bleach and fixer? Is it formulated the same as Kodak or is it nothing to worry about?

 

[Photo Engineer]

AFAIK, the Trebla chemistry is the same as Kodak chemistry. Trebla is part of a company started by ex Kodak Engineers.

PE

 

[stevewillard]

I have had excellent results with Trebla chemistry. It is also less expensive then Kodaks chemistry. However, the difference in price between Trebla and Kodak developer was not that significant so I decided to stay with Kodaks developer because the developer is critical to getting good results, and I have a lot of faith in Kodak chemistry.

 

[stevewillard]

This is excellent information Steve, both the
My first batch (this week) included a roll that was STARTED in June but took a long time for me to finish (maybe finished shooting in September, hard to remember now when I took it out). Can't speak to the differences between that and the ones I shot this weekend though, as I also can't say my first round of developing was 100% successful. Definitely a lot of color casts to deal with, and too much grain on a couple rolls. Not the same quality as the $2.50 drugstore negs at all, and in the bad sense...including more dust & smudges to spot out .

I shoot large format and have been processing all of my color C41 film for years. I first started with a JOBO cpp2 and then graduated to a JOBO ATL machine. I believe my results are significantly better then the stuff I get from any professional labs. Both the uniformity in development and repeatability is excellent with the JOBO machines.

If you are not using a JOBO I would highly recommend getting a cpp2 if you can afford it. Of course, if you can afford an JOBO ATL then that would be even better and easier.

 

[stradibarrius]

I need some bleach but I don't want to buy a big $100.00+ size. Can Kodak bleach be used with Trebela developer and fix?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Read my last post, #63.

PE

 

[John Sampson]

Processing C41

I would like to start processing colour as well, but cannot find a process description or a list of chemicals. I am not new to the darkroom, so all I need is the process, and a list of the recommended chemicals.

And the quote about generalisation is clearly the weird mental machinations of an idiot! and I'm generalising of course, so no one need take it personally.

John Sampson

I have read through countless threads about home C-41 process. I have read Kodak tech bulletins and then tried to find the chemicals as listed from the Kodak publication, only to find they are currently unavailable?

Is it possible for some who is experienced to post a "C-41 for Dummies" thread????

I process my own B&W and have been to Gary B's house and watched him process C-41. The process itself is not so much the question as is wading through the chemistry.
I know there is a developer, bleach and fixer but Kodak has so many different versions of each.

I know Tetnal has a "press kit" Developer, blix, stabilizer that looks more attractive all the time.

I would prefer to separate the bleach and fix. From what I have read, you will get better results.

So to summarize, to Process C-41 color negative film at home in a small hand held tank what chemicals do I need? Are they currently available in the US?

If I can ask, please be specific about the chemicals needed.
Developer???? developer/replenisher???? both????
Which bleach?
Which fixer?

I am sorry for being such a "dummy"...

 

[Photo Engineer]

John;

The C-41 process cycle has been posted here and is available on the Kodak web site here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...cts/chemicals/flexicolor2.jhtml?pq-path=12550

The process manuals show how to do it in small tanks such as the Jobo and in deep tanks either automated or not. The information is in the PDF files on the Kodak web site.

PE

 

[stevewillard]

I need some bleach but I don't want to buy a big $100.00+ size. Can Kodak bleach be used with Trebela developer and fix?

In general, Trebela is less expensive than Kodak especially the bleach and fix. The difference in price is not that much for the developers. What follows is a source for chemicals:

Denver Pro Photo
235 S Cherokee St.
Denver CO 80223
Phone: 303-698-1790 or 866-360-4940
Fax: 303-698-1720
Website: www.denverprophoto.com​

Ask for Victor Guarino. He will take care of you. They will ship the stuff anywhere.

Here is the C41 chemistry I purchase from Denver Pro Photo with volumes and prices:

Kodak Flexicolor SM Develper 2L $15.92
Kodak Indicator Stop 16 oz. $7.25
Trebla Beach 5L $31.16
Trebla Fixer 5L $4.75
Kodak Final Rinse 5L $6.25​

The Kodak Flexicolor SM Developer is a one shot developer which is good for tray or drum processing.

 

[stevewillard]

I would like to start processing colour as well, but cannot find a process description or a list of chemicals. I am not new to the darkroom, so all I need is the process, and a list of the recommended chemicals.

And the quote about generalisation is clearly the weird mental machinations of an idiot! and I'm generalising of course, so no one need take it personally.

John Sampson

John, here is the process I use with my JOBO processor developed at 38 degrees celsius:

Prewarm drum with film in it in water bath: 5:00
Devloper: 3:15
Stop Bath: 1:00
Bleach: 6:30
Rinse with dumping and adding new water every 30 sec: 3:00
Fix: 6:30
Rinse with dumping and adding new water every 30 sec: 3:00
Stablizer in tray (not in drum): 1:30

You can get the chemicals as outlined in my previous response.

 

[EdSawyer]

how much solutions?

Stevewillard -

In your 2nd to last post, you mentioned what you got for Chemistry. How much does that make? Is it the 2L and 5L amounts? Or more? Talking about working-strength here. I am just wondering if there is a cheaper/better option than the $70 5-liter Tetenal kit that B&H sells.

thanks
-Ed

 

[Cymen]

I have been in contact with Sherry at Photographer's Formulary since last March about their C-41 chemistry. Here is the latest email I just received from her dated October 27th.

• 
  HI Stephen
  What we are going to be selling is Kodak's C-41 chemistry but it will be packaged to make 1 liter of working solution. So the instructions you have for the Kodak will work as far as steps. It will consist of the developer bleach and fix I'm not sure about the stabilizer I don't think we are doing that portion with the stuff we have.
  Sherry

Please email Sherry at formulary@blackfoot.net and express your interest in their efforts.

Furthermore, you can get Kodak C41 Flexicolor SM developer for mini labs that makes a 2 L batch. It is the same chemistry as the one gallon mix that Kodak discontinued. It is a one shot developer that will work just fine with JOBO drums. B&H does not carry it, and it is hard to find, but I have a source for those that are interested as follows:

• 
  Denver Pro Photo
  235 S Cherokee St.
  Denver CO 80223
  Phone: 303-698-1790 or 866-360-4940
  Fax: 303-698-1720
  Website: www.denverprophoto.com

Ask for Victor Guarino. He will take care of you. They will ship the stuff anywhere.

Here is the C41 chemistry I purchase from Denver Pro Photo with volumes and prices:

• Kodak Flexicolor SM Develper 2L $15.92
• Kodak Indicator Stop 16 oz. $7.25
• Trebla Beach 5L $31.16
• Trebla Fixer 5L $4.75
• Kodak Final Rinse 5L $6.25

Hope this helps...

I'm quoting the whole post so people don't miss this -- I just spoke with Victor and they can't ship the bleach or developer chemicals via UPS. They can ship the other chemicals via UPS. They do offer shipment via truck for the bleach or developer but that is expensive for long distance. Something to keep in mind while trying to find a source for these chemicals. The truck shipment was estimated to be around $65-70 to Madison, Wisconsin. Victor did suggest contacting Kodak if a local source couldn't be found. He was very helpful but unfortunately UPS makes it impractical to ship these those two chemicals as the special permits are expensive and add a hefty charge to every shipment.

Anyone have a source in Chicago?

 

[epatsellis]

Calumet would be my first choice in Chicago.


erie

 

[nickandre]

The key to processing C41 is to hunt for bleach that turns up on ebay. It is cheap to begin with and shipped without hazmat charges (illegally of course) and therefore is very cheap in its entirety. I purchased 5 gallons of Bleach III for $35 shipped to my door. The other chemicals just find their way into my darkroom every time a family member visits new york.