Crown Graphic Lens: CLA or Replace?

[StepheKoontz]

You’re right, but since he is a beginner he should be aware of all the different versions. Then his research would be more helpful.

Feel free to provide details/information. I'd be interested to know myself, even if I am happy with my ancient WF Ektar

 

[Arklatexian]

When I brought my Pacemaker Speed Graphic and Graflex from Bert Sanders who was a retired Graphic and Graflex repairman sold the best cameras in his collection, told me to do that. One must keep the lenses away from the graphite dust so remember to use compressed air to blow away any graphite.

Sirius, I have been told by repairmen and have learned by personal experience to never allow WD40 in the same room with a camera "blade" shutter. I am told that once it gets into a shutter, nothing will "completely" remove it from nooks and crannies. I had a compur shutter ruined by WD 40. It was the shutter for my 203mm, f7.7 Ektar. I later had Grimes mount the lens in a Copal shutter where it is now. I use WD40 for almost everything else but I cannot recommend it for camera shutters........Regards!

 

[StepheKoontz]

Sirius, I have been told by repairmen and have learned by personal experience to never allow WD40 in the same room with a camera "blade" shutter. I am told that once it gets into a shutter, nothing will "completely" remove it from nooks and crannies. I had a compur shutter ruined by WD 40. It was the shutter for my 203mm, f7.7 Ektar. I later had Grimes mount the lens in a Copal shutter where it is now. I use WD40 for almost everything else but I cannot recommend it for camera shutters........Regards!

WD40 is a water dispersant. Period. It is not a lubricant, it really isn't even a very good penetrating oil or rust preventative. WD-40 is actually hygroscopic and will attract moisture which will result in rust. I agree it should never be used anywhere near something like a shutter!

 

[Bob S]

Sirius, I have been told by repairmen and have learned by personal experience to never allow WD40 in the same room with a camera "blade" shutter. I am told that once it gets into a shutter, nothing will "completely" remove it from nooks and crannies. I had a compur shutter ruined by WD 40. It was the shutter for my 203mm, f7.7 Ektar. I later had Grimes mount the lens in a Copal shutter where it is now. I use WD40 for almost everything else but I cannot recommend it for camera shutters........Regards!

+1

 

[shutterfinger]

I use extra fine powdered graphite to coat shutter and aperture blades when I have a shutter fully disassembled, I never use it in an assembled shutter.
Shutters designed to run dry benefit from a trace amount of fine machine oil (clock oil) on the pivots, trace amount of grease on gear teeth and sliding metal parts where they touch. A trace of oil or grease is all that is called for when servicing shutters as more acts like glue and impairs movements.
+1 for never using WD40 or 3in1 oil on or near a camera.
Early Compur shutters are easy to fix, a 4 on a scale of 10; Compur Rapid a 5 to 6; and Synchro Compurs a 9 for the beginner. (10 the most difficult).
Download the Compur repair manual here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/44503560/Compur-Shutter-Repair-Manual
The lens is likely in a CN-1210-051 shutter. If the glass is good CLA the shutter otherwise replace the lens and CLA the replacement's shutter.

This is what you can expect to see when you remove the lens cells and face plate:

 

[Thepng]

I use extra fine powdered graphite to coat shutter and aperture blades when I have a shutter fully disassembled, I never use it in an assembled shutter.
Shutters designed to run dry benefit from a trace amount of fine machine oil (clock oil) on the pivots, trace amount of grease on gear teeth and sliding metal parts where they touch. A trace of oil or grease is all that is called for when servicing shutters as more acts like glue and impairs movements.
+1 for never using WD40 or 3in1 oil on or near a camera.
Early Compur shutters are easy to fix, a 4 on a scale of 10; Compur Rapid a 5 to 6; and Synchro Compurs a 9 for the beginner. (10 the most difficult).
Download the Compur repair manual here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/44503560/Compur-Shutter-Repair-Manual
The lens is likely in a CN-1210-051 shutter. If the glass is good CLA the shutter otherwise replace the lens and CLA the replacement's shutter.

This is what you can expect to see when you remove the lens cells and face plate:
View attachment 233692

That looks pretty scary! When you say difficulty of 9/10, is that for a full CLA? Other replies hinted at quick and dirty cures...are those worth trying on this shutter do you think?

 

[BrianShaw]

That looks pretty scary! When you say difficulty of 9/10, is that for a full CLA? Other replies hinted at quick and dirty cures...are those worth trying on this shutter do you think?

Nope

 

[bd3]

I had a sticky shutter on my Speed Graphic. I sent it off to Carol Flutot. She's very knowledgeable and I thought reasonably priced. She sent it back with a paper denoting the actual shutter speeds.

 

[shutterfinger]

+1 for post 32. Solvent flush and oil or graphite is a bandaid on a 3 stitch cut, it will help for the short term but may cause more wear than normal on the shutter.

 

[BrianShaw]

+1 for post 32. Solvent flush and oil or graphite is a bandaid on a 3 stitch cut, it will help for the short term but may cause more wear than normal on the shutter.

Not just that... there’s a 98.7% chance that it will make a Compur shutter worse in the short term.

 

[Alan Gales]

I used to be an eBay Seller of film photography gear.

Dan is correct (post #2) about it being a crap shoot when buying large format lenses off eBay or anywhere else. Unless a recent CLA receipt is included with a shutter then figure on having a CLA done. I own shutter speed testers and tested every lens I bought. Sometimes I got lucky and the shutter was accurate but many times it was not. Some eBay Sellers claim that their shutter for sale sounds accurate to their ears. Well it may sound accurate to them but that does not mean it will test accurate.

I recommend that you have your shutter CLA'd. Then you will know.

 

[Bob S]

I used to be an eBay Seller of film photography gear.

Dan is correct (post #2) about it being a crap shoot when buying large format lenses off eBay or anywhere else. Unless a recent CLA receipt is included with a shutter then figure on having a CLA done. I own shutter speed testers and tested every lens I bought. Sometimes I got lucky and the shutter was accurate but many times it was not. Some eBay Sellers claim that their shutter for sale sounds accurate to their ears. Well it may sound accurate to them but that does not mean it will test accurate.

I recommend that you have your shutter CLA'd. Then you will know.

It’s also important to note that a modern shutter is within specification if it is within 30% of its marked setting.

 

[Alan Gales]

It’s also important to note that a modern shutter is within specification if it is within 30% of its marked setting.

Good point, Bob!

After I bought my first shutter speed tester I made the mistake of listing the actual speeds on my eBay listings. Even when the shutter speeds were well within tolerance, my lenses sold for less money. I guess buyers just didn't understand. I went back to not listing speeds on my auctions and my lenses went back to selling for what they should have.

 

[shutterfinger]

Shutter speed tolerances are 20% for speeds 1/125 and longer, 30% for speeds 1/250 and faster.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=shutter+speed+tolerances
This is approximately 1/3 stop either side of the marked speed.

 

[Arklatexian]

+1 for post 32. Solvent flush and oil or graphite is a bandaid on a 3 stitch cut, it will help for the short term but may cause more wear than normal on the shutter.

In the "old" days, if you needed your shutter on your LF camera to work "one more time", you would unscrew the lenses and squirt some "lighter fluid" on the shutter blades, screw the lenses back in, go shoot your job and the next morning take the lens and shutter to the repairman for an overhaul. We did not use the term CLA in those days though that is probably what was being done. Everyone knew that the lighter fluid was an emergency "fix" and was not permanent. We now live in a more "modern" age but evidently shutters still get "sticky". I "exercise" all of my LF blade shutters at least once a month along with my Hasselblads. Weeeellll, once every two months!..........Regards!

 

[AndyH]

In the "old" days, if you needed your shutter on your LF camera to work "one more time", you would unscrew the lenses and squirt some "lighter fluid" on the shutter blades, screw the lenses back in, go shoot your job and the next morning take the lens and shutter to the repairman for an overhaul. We did not use the term CLA in those days though that is probably what was being done. Everyone knew that the lighter fluid was an emergency "fix" and was not permanent. We now live in a more "modern" age but evidently shutters still get "sticky". I "exercise" all of my LF blade shutters at least once a month along with my Hasselblads. Weeeellll, once every two months!..........Regards!

I have used lighter fluid - naphtha - to remove stubborn old grease and crud from various parts. It's a great cleaner, but not a lubricant. I remove the residual with isopropyl alcohol or hydrogen peroxide, depending on the underlying material. A few drops of very light watchmaker's oil (not the kind you get at the hardware store) is all I use. For parts that were originally greased with a heavier material, I use a silicone grease that I purchased for restoring fountain pens. It doesn't harden over time.

Interested in what others use for solvents and lubricants when doing a CLA...

Andy