Crowdfunded darkroom timer

[fiddle]

In case anyone is interested.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/maya-the-only-darkroom-timer-you-ll-ever-need/x/20443015#/

 

[johnwwyatt]

In case anyone is interested.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/maya-the-only-darkroom-timer-you-ll-ever-need/x/20443015#/

Thanks for posting! Just what I’ve been looking for.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

This is certainly a neat idea with future built into it. Time will tell and crowd funding is normally a big no no for me. In this case however the goal was modest and a units have apparently been made, even if prototypes (unlike some crazy photography related campaigns with huge up front goal and nothing to show at the same time.

Analog meets new technology? If this goes deeper, as mentioned, with LED enlarger head etc., all the better.

Still have my Zone VI darkroom timer and Dr. Horowitz will actually answer your questions (as late as some 2 years ago in my case) which only tells me he was actually more involved in the project than some suspected from Fred Picker's tendency for hyperbolic advertising.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Just had an exchange with Can, the product developer. I'm so far quite hopeful this is going to be good. One has to appreciate quick and pointed reply to a specific question.

 

[AgX]

I do not consider me an expert on the market sector of advanced enlarging timers, and I found the video confusing.

Can some evaluate the features of this device in comparison to what there is new and used on the market already?

 

[bernard_L]

Hmmm... Collecting money, more-or-less (with the restrictions of crowdfunding) promising products, and yet (my emphasis):
"We are already deep into our prototyping phase. Most of the coding has been done, interface has been designed, so apart from the finishing touches here and there, we need to find a supplier for the PCBs, various parts and the casing. Of course, the final physical form of everything can only be determined after we have a good number of how many units we'll have to make."
So they don't have a working prototype, they don't have quotes from suppliers (because they don't have a design), and they "advertise" products and prices (yes, I know, read the fine print of crowdfunding rules).

IMO, the proper way to do this would be to build, test and finalize a prototype. Then, on the basis of a certain production quantity, secure quotations for supplies. Then launch a kickstarter campaign with that quantity as minimum goal, and the production cost as a basis for contributions. Any backers above the minimum number allow the promoters to reap the cost benefits of quantity production. Not even mentioning a pre-production run to weed out certain issues.

 

[michaelfoto]

Very nice. One thing i dont se in the description is the grade of waterresistence on the unit. In order to compete with various phone apps, it is important that you can use i with moist or even wet fingers. You should also have a neat way to clean it if chemical residues from fingers are left around the buttons.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Hmmm... Collecting money, more-or-less (with the restrictions of crowdfunding) promising products, and yet (my emphasis):
"We are already deep into our prototyping phase. Most of the coding has been done, interface has been designed, so apart from the finishing touches here and there, we need to find a supplier for the PCBs, various parts and the casing. Of course, the final physical form of everything can only be determined after we have a good number of how many units we'll have to make."
So they don't have a working prototype, they don't have quotes from suppliers (because they don't have a design), and they "advertise" products and prices (yes, I know, read the fine print of crowdfunding rules).

IMO, the proper way to do this would be to build, test and finalize a prototype. Then, on the basis of a certain production quantity, secure quotations for supplies. Then launch a kickstarter campaign with that quantity as minimum goal, and the production cost as a basis for contributions. Any backers above the minimum number allow the promoters to reap the cost benefits of quantity production. Not even mentioning a pre-production run to weed out certain issues.

Does not look like yo have read the whole thing as there is already a working product. Lot's of confidence here from end at least, versus projects like New55 film. You would be in the right place saying this over there some years back, surely not here. It is projects like New55 that kill the crowdfunding ideas and others, like this one, suffer due to this.

It may seem like I have some interest in this. I found out about it from original post and immediately was sold looking at presentation, product actually working, and mosty importantly having just had 3 quick exchanges with product founder. Again, if you wanna have some kickstarter fun, look up the New55 and "relax" as you read through its history, but I am not sure if the original stuff is still in one place to see the whole story.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Very nice. One thing i dont se in the description is the grade of waterresistence on the unit. In order to compete with various phone apps, it is important that you can use i with moist or even wet fingers. You should also have a neat way to clean it if chemical residues from fingers are left around the buttons.

I'm not sure I'm all there with you on this one. Working on enlarger is a rather dry finger job, for many reasons. Using it in development mode it looks like you pre-program and run, still I hardly get my fingers wet during tank development. I can see how a timer would get abused in a club / public type environment, but for a single user I like what I see ... a lot.

 

[michaelfoto]

This thing is also ment as a developement timer for films. it is important that you can advance it to the next timer step, even with moist fingers. I have yet to meet a Paterson tank that is leak proof.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

This thing is also ment as a developement timer for films. it is important that you can advance it to the next timer step, even with moist fingers. I have yet to meet a Paterson tank that is leak proof.

Could you elaborate on the "leak proof" comment. I have 4 Patersons and none poses any problems I would characterize as leak(s) related.

 

[lantau]

Wet finger won't do any harm to most devices. My first real camera, a digital mirrorless, once was used by friends in heavy rain to take pictures of me in a fun fair ride. I was doing 80km/h through the rain, but the camera was dripping more than I and couldn't care less. Your TV remote will most likely be okay with dripping fingers. And I also wouldn't be worried about an old Nokia 3210. So why would this device care?

However you'll make a bit of a mess when the stuff dries and leaves chemical residues on the surface. So wipe it with a damp cloth at the end of the session and you'll be fine. No need for IP56.

I'm using a Jobotronic 2000 (or so) as a timer for my enlarger. I was thinking recently that I should build something microcontroller based to replace it. I'd really only need a timer and buttons to go up and down by half f/stops. And for split grade printing it'd be nice not having to set the time again with every exposure but cycle through the times.

As you can see in the video the device is working, and probably does everything I need. I do positive and negative work in different places, which means I don't need the film timing sequences. But I understand what he means that he still needs to do more work. Firmware is never really finished, but at some point it'll be good enough.

Of course I'd expect to be able to flash the firmware by usb. Don't want to open the thing and having to use an SPI or JTAG programmer. But here's the best thing. He wants to open source the hardware and software. So if I'm annoyed by something minor, like some timeing, a beep, or a missing beep, it might be easy enough to adjust that in the source myself.

I'm really considering to buy into it. If I feel really motivated I might even contact him to ask questions and make some suggestions. If it hasn't got it already it would be nice to place unused i/o pins to a header so people can hack their own extensions, should they be needed.

The big problem I see here is the mains voltage part. Obviously it should be done properly accordingly to applying technical rules. But if you don't want postal customs officers in EU countries to reject the parcels it needs to have a CE sign, which is a self certification but none the less.

Currently he's on eleven sold. If it was 500 I'm sure it could be made for a cheaper price. At work we made a custom device and I believe it was less than a thousand. No buttons but lots of high quality audio jacks. A Chinese business partner found a place to have the whole thing made for around a €100. Large PCB, metal housing, assembly and flashing of the microcontroller. And I believe this one was actually made in Taiwan, not even mainlańd China.

Maybe once the first dozen is sold and works in the field he could try to crowdfund a large production run. If there are 500-1000 people left in the world who still do wet work.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

...If there are 500-1000 people left in the world who still do wet work.

500-1000? There is probably more just on this forum. I'm not going to guess but the number is far far higher. The good part is that young are getting into wet too, so one cna only hope it will remain a sustainable market for new products for some time. At the same time, not everyone will need a new device like this yet it is a forward looking design which might entice the young to follow through on new purchases.

Can comes through as an enthusiastic person and has heart in it and that I like even more.

 

[CMoore]

I do not consider me an expert on the market sector of advanced enlarging timers, and I found the video confusing.

Can some evaluate the features of this device in comparison to what there is new and used on the market already?

I am with you 100%.
Then again, i am an older person that is NOT into all the latest technology.

I found it to be about the worst piece of advertising i have ever seen.
WAY too fast and vague.
Maybe just slow down and actually SHOW the connections and their capabilities.?
It seems to do A LOT, but they only dedicate 2.76 seconds to each feature, with text designed for a speed reading class.
I get the feeling they were more into showcasing their Videographer Skills, than simply explaining what the F'ing thing does.
Why do we need this.?
It might just be a case of me not caring about that much precision, and being happy to watch an analog clock turn its hands as i develop film.
Again, it went so fast that i am not certain..... But i do not think i even have any of those Connections/Cables in my darkroom.

 

[fiddle]

I have nothing to do with this project, just saw it online, and decided to share.. anyway
I am also weary of crowd funded products, but decided to give it a shot after some correspondence back and forth with the guy. He has a working product, as he shows in the videos, using it in his own printing sessions. His comments about developing it are more about finessing it. Having circuit board printed instead of wiring, Tweaking the code, etc.
The examples, although quick as some mentioned, I think shows all its capabilities.
-6 memory banks, 2 channels on each. Can be set for seconds or f stops.
- can be set for test print mode, set base time, then 1/2 stop increments for example.
-Split grade printing, set channel a in a memory bank for 00 times channel b for grade 5 times.
-set dodge burn modes within your process, I believe it’s 9 steps that can be added, counter divides the time, stops at your dodge burn points.

All in all it’s pretty much what we have all seen as open source timers available online made by a few in here. I think a little more thought out than the diy ones, and I don’t have to go back to school to learn to build one from the available plans.

My 2 cents.

 

[4season]

Not optimistic this will ever see the light of day: I think the electronics might be do-able using Arduino, but their #1 challenge will likely be the plastic parts, and they should have addressed that question before the start of their campaign.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I have nothing to do with this project, just saw it online, and decided to share.. anyway
I am also weary of crowd funded products, but decided to give it a shot after some correspondence back and forth with the guy. He has a working product, as he shows in the videos, using it in his own printing sessions. His comments about developing it are more about finessing it. Having circuit board printed instead of wiring, Tweaking the code, etc.
The examples, although quick as some mentioned, I think shows all its capabilities.
-6 memory banks, 2 channels on each. Can be set for seconds or f stops.
- can be set for test print mode, set base time, then 1/2 stop increments for example.
-Split grade printing, set channel a in a memory bank for 00 times channel b for grade 5 times.
-set dodge burn modes within your process, I believe it’s 9 steps that can be added, counter divides the time, stops at your dodge burn points.

All in all it’s pretty much what we have all seen as open source timers available online made by a few in here. I think a little more thought out than the diy ones, and I don’t have to go back to school to learn to build one from the available plans.

My 2 cents.

And thanks for sharing, not so much making me spend

 

[fiddle]

There are plenty of ardruino based f stop timers built and being used via open source diy plans available online atm. Not sure what the concern of the plastic parts are?

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Not optimistic this will ever see the light of day: I think the electronics might be do-able using Arduino, but their #1 challenge will likely be the plastic parts, and they should have addressed that question before the start of their campaign.

Sorry, did yo make any effort looking at the presentation and reading about it? Because frankly, it does not look like it. Buy a leather strap for $10 which will open up the discussion for you if you really want to find anything out about it (although presentation ought to be good enough to see through it). There are no guarantees, but then again there have been so many frauds on crowd funded projects where I hardly saw any serious complaints (and yes I do mean New55 as one of them) and here you see what it looks like, you see how it works (and that it does) and then you talk to the man and you get even more on his side. I hope he succeeds and that is why I decided to support it. But no pressure from me, I could care less, just don't misrepresent what he's already done.

 

[fiddle]

And thanks for sharing, not so much making me spend

HaHa.. sorry...

 

[Deleted member 88956]

There are plenty of ardruino based f stop timers built and being used via open source diy plans available online atm. Not sure what the concern of the plastic parts are?

I guess the main point is this is a professional looking product, not Arduino put-together. And making comments about parts poster cannot confirm either material nor origin off, is just telling. But, there is no success without nay sayers.

 

[choiliefan]

How many amps can this thing handle?
Zone VI enlarger head cooked the receptacle on my old Gralab 505 electronic ...

 

[fiddle]

I believe I remember it saying he’s using 10 amp relays for the power block?
Think it’s noted on the description on the funding page, with an option for higher rating if requested.

 

[choiliefan]

Thanks.

 

[Pieter12]

I hope they can make this project go forward. The RH Designs is the only other available (not DIY) f-stop timer I know of and it costs GBP319 and up. The interface for the RH takes some getting used to, this one looks like it might be a bit more versatile. RH does have an analyzer option but that's much more expensive.