Could Color Transparency Film Housed in Plastic Sleeving Be Negatively Effected Over Time?

[DF]

I'm wondering if color transparency film housed in cardboard mounts would be in a sense healthier because of the space enabled, whereas in plastic sleeving, whether it be in roll form direct from processing or in, say, a PrintFile page, could cause problems over time due to the direct contact between the film and the clear plastic. Yah, I'm sure excessive humidity would create sticking for one example, but any other kind of damage?

 

[CarolJones]

I have found that Kodachrome slides stored in plastic pages can be subject to damage. Plastic seems to be a lot like concrete, in that it never seems stable. The plastic seems to slowly break down over time. Which causes it to stick to the film if it is in contact. I have not had this problem with ones labeled archival. The problem I have had is with mold. I found slides stored in the plastic would, again over time, be attacked by mold, which ruined the film. A cool, dry humidity controlled storage facility would probably help with this. My recommendations was to store them in the box Kodak put them in, or in round carousel trays which allowed air circulation. Good luck. It seems nothing is forever, be it relationships, computer storage, and photography.

 

[wiltw]

'plastic sleeving' comes in damaging form, and in non-damaging form. 'Vinyl' plastic attacks photographic dyes, and can cause the dye to stick to the vinyl sleeve. 'polyethelene' sheeting does not attack photographic dyes.

 

[slackercrurster]

I'm wondering if color transparency film housed in cardboard mounts would be in a sense healthier because of the space enabled, whereas in plastic sleeving, whether it be in roll form direct from processing or in, say, a PrintFile page, could cause problems over time due to the direct contact between the film and the clear plastic. Yah, I'm sure excessive humidity would create sticking for one example, but any other kind of damage?

Dunno, but the PrintFile's plastic is not archival...at least what they used 20 years ago.

20 years comparison.

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Weegee Press Photo​

 

[DREW WILEY]

Even the inert polyethylene fashion can potentially cause issues, especially if the storage area itself is not well ventilated and humid.

 

[koraks]

@DF I find the question far too complicated to answer. There are so many types of 'plastic' out there, and even the types used for these kinds of sleeves vary wildly. Then there are so many failure modes for E6 over time. Really, the best advice I could give you is to reach out to an expert in the field of photo restoration and conservation. These people routinely deal with this issue and will be of much better help than I could ever be. The subject matter is really vast and really complex.

 

[DREW WILEY]

And those who sell archival supplies offer various options for a reason. It makes sense to peruse some of their websites.

 

[DF]

Dunno, but the PrintFile's plastic is not archival...at least what they used 20 years ago.

WWWWHAT??? - PrintFile pages are NOT archival???!!! Yikes - I've been storing most of my old cardboard-mounted Kodachromes in their 35mm slide pages, later on my B&W neg's and currently I cut strips of six & seven Ektachromes/Velvias, slid'em in there.
'PrintFile's plastic is not archival' - are you sure about that? - I thought that's why mostly everyone/anyone uses them....
'Think I'll drop the folks @PrintFile a note 'bout some things...

 

[DF]

I have found that Kodachrome slides stored in plastic pages can be subject to damage. Plastic seems to be a lot like concrete, in that it never seems stable. The plastic seems to slowly break down over time. Which causes it to stick to the film if it is in contact. I have not had this problem with ones labeled archival. The problem I have had is with mold. I found slides stored in the plastic would, again over time, be attacked by mold, which ruined the film. A cool, dry humidity controlled storage facility would probably help with this. My recommendations was to store them in the box Kodak put them in, or in round carousel trays which allowed air circulation. Good luck. It seems nothing is forever, be it relationships, computer storage, and photography.

Every now & then I get lucky and come across those old rectangular tin (aluminum?) storage compartments that house roughly 150 at thrift shops for around 3 bucks - for my unpaged material of course but I have too few.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Most vinyl or PVC album sleeves were phased out quite awhile ago, once it became common knowledge how badly their plasticizers affected photos. But remember, our homes are filled with outgassing vinyl surfaces and objects, so there is simply no substitute for reasonable ventilation and air circulation.

 

[DF]

Perhaps where I've gone wrong is assuming certain storage methods are simply 'safe' - for the time being, not thinking about the long run....

 

[Brad Deputy]

I wonder what attacked that print file page to turn it brown like that.

My TMX and TMY from school in 1994 are perfectly preserved in their Print-file sleeves.

 

[MattKing]

I'm not convinced that the fact that a negative or slide storage sheet turning brown is, by itself, an indication that the negatives stored in it are negatively affected (not effected).
Apologies for the pedantry

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I've had to peel off sleeves from my negatives, so I deemed them risky by this fact alone.

But moving to slides and having them ready for projection at a toggle of the switch, has solved the storage problem to me.
I keep my slides mounted in Gepe slide mounts with metal mask and said mounts are kept in a box of two slide trays - 100 slides in a box, always ready for projection.

Said box features vents and slide mounts in slide trays provide ample space for gas exchange, film is free from fingerprints. So only dust, projection heat and temperature/humidity fluctuations affect them. I expect them to last my lifetime at least.

Slides I did 10 years ago look like shot yesterday, albeit 10 years isn't enough of a time to measure "archival performance".

And I live on a reclaimed bog - humidity is high and zero mold this way.
I switched from AN mounts to open, because 1) mold grew inside the glass/film sandwich and 2) AN pattern was visible during projection.

So - film in open mounts > in slide trays > in vented slide box/carousel seems to be the best available storage method at home.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Most vinyl or PVC album sleeves were phased out quite awhile ago, once it became common knowledge how badly their plasticizers affected photos. But remember, our homes are filled with outgassing vinyl surfaces and objects, so there is simply no substitute for reasonable ventilation and air circulation.

My cousin asked me to make a photo slide show to show on computer monitors and 4K TVs of her parents BW pictures from the 1940's when her father was serving in the army in WWII and then they got married. They have long since passed away. She gave me this old photo album with the plastic sheets. I started to remove the photos to scan just the pictures on my Epson V600. So many of them were stuck to the plastic. They were getting ruined trying to remove them. So I just scanned them through the plastic sheets. That sometimes left some glossy artifacts on the scans. In the end the whole operation came out great. I even added Big Band music from the forties including two songs of the forties - Glenn Miller's Moonlight Serenade and Tommy Dorsey's I'm Getting Sentimental Over You, both very apropos. It was really wonderful to watch their expressions of delight and love when we played it back on a 75" TV, music and all.

Tommy Dorsey's I'm Getting Sentimental Over You - Bing video

www.bing.com

Glenn Miller's Moonlight Serenade and Tommy Dorsey's I'm Getting Sentimental Over You - Bing video

www.bing.com

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yea, once the film gets stuck to the vinyl it's a headache. Something similar happened with old glassine sleeves which were improperly made and a glue line came in contact with the film. But even "archival" plastic can sometimes ferrotype film under too much storage pressure, and leave shiny areas causing repro problems. Before the era of digital photo restoration I made side money copying and restoring damaged film and print images the old fashioned way - copystand and darkroom style. It was often a interesting challenge, and people paid me well for it. But now restoration is so much easier digitally.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If any album material shows the slightest amount of adhesion to a print, color or black & white, do not attempt to remove the cover. Scan through the cover and work with the image the best one can with the software that one has available. Do not remove sticking covers.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I've used PrintFile for 30 years and have had no issues at all.

Always remember that when you are online you need to consider the source of bizarre claims.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Scan to what end? My brother made the then-common mistake of putting an exceptional 8X10 dye transfer print into a vinyl album sleeve. Scan all you want; but nothing will substitute for the look of a real dye transfer print except another dye transfer print. The print itself had been ferrotyped for a glossier surface, so it didn't stick to the sleeve. But the damn plasticizers sure faded it prematurely. Now it exists only in my memory. Even digital saturation enhancement in a reproduction of that faded print wouldn't do justice to its original glory.

 

[snusmumriken]

All my transparencies - 30 years’ worth - were destroyed by mould, whether or not they were glass mounted. They were all stored in plastic file-hanger sleeves.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

That sucks, snusmumriken!

Keep 'em mounted and in a dedicated box, AVOID ANYTHING getting in a direct contact with film, avoid sleeves, then it'll last.
I'm talking something like this

 

[koraks]

That sucks, snusmumriken!

Keep 'em mounted and in a dedicated box, AVOID ANYTHING getting in a direct contact with film, avoid sleeves, then it'll last.
I'm talking something like this

These are nice, but they also require storage conditions to be reasonably good. I.e. low-ish humidity, no excessive temperatures. Humidity is key.
I know, because we have a couple of hundred slides in our family archives in those types of boxes and they're affected by mold pretty badly. These boxes don't (obviously) protect against this.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

It's about gas exchange Vs stale humidity I guess - these feature vents, aren't sealed. The space between mounts and frames is good against impeded gas movement. I keep watching for mold - no problems with naked slides so far, just AN mounted ones started to show it, which I cleaned and put in open mount. A packet of silica gel between the trays could also help to a degree. I project my older slides once in 2-3 years which gives a chance to inspect for mold, magnified.

Or put these in a heated storage box with forced ventilation lol

 

[koraks]

Why would slides require gas exchange?

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Any flow of air/gas helps against accumulation of moisture/mold - hence the vents of said slide storage boxes, no? Hence mold on slides/negatives in sleeves, hence mold on slides sandwiched in AN glass mounts where the airflow is nonexistent. And zero mold on open-framed slides, all other conditions being equal.