Conventions for indicating which film holders have film?

DWThomas · Mar 12, 2022

Well I bought some new 4x5s circa 1963 or so and I can't say I remember any instruction sheets, but somehow (osmosis? ) I settled on white/silver side means unexposed and black means exposed or empty. I do little enough large format that I generally only load film before an outing. I also have computer printed adhesive labels that I cut down to fit in little rectangular recesses in the holder (those that have them) with a holder number,-A and -B, and film type (I use very few different films).
And then there's always masking tape ...

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 12, 2022

miha said:
One thing is to know which hold is empty and which is not, another thing is to remember the film type loaded in the holder. Some days ago I had to open 8 holders to check for the notches. I could swear they were loaded with Fomapan however the notched revealed it was Ektar!

I'm using around 5 different films and use these labels to mark which film is in which holder.
From my earlier post: "
I use these removable labels to identify what type of film I have in holder. I use 1/2" but they come in other sizes as well.
Check on the right. They'll send you a swatch sheet for free to try out. Note the different sizes on the right side as well.
https://www.chromalabel.com/products/1-2-inch-dot-labels-assorted-color-pack"

miha · Mar 12, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
I'm using around 5 different films and use these labels to mark which film is in which holder.
From my earlier post: "
I use these removable labels to identify what type of film I have in holder. I use 1/2" but they come in other sizes as well.
Check on the right. They'll send you a swatch sheet for free to try out. Note the different sizes on the right side as well.
https://www.chromalabel.com/products/1-2-inch-dot-labels-assorted-color-pack"

I usually just make a note of the film type on the white strip of the holder, the problem is that sometimes I'm too confident and don't mark the holders at all.

AgX · Mar 12, 2022

Don Heisz said:
"A universally accepted convention is to place the light side of the slide in the outside position when loading the holder then reverse the slide when the film is exposed." Stroebel, View Camera Techniques 7th ed, Focal Press, p. 187.

A good reference ! (I know this book, but got no sample. It was practically unknown in Germany anyway.)

Over here as textbook one needed to refer to the books by Linhof: No respective advice. But indeed I found manual for a film holder: for the Linhof film holders: again no respective advice,

Two23 · Mar 12, 2022

I'm in the camp of white side out means unexposed film, dark side out means exposed film (or empty.) I know to never open a dark slide to check for film unless I'm in the dark. I use a piece of colored tape to designate what film is in the holder. I've pretty much standardized on FP4+ though. As for the dark slide securing pins, those have a habit of wandering around so I can't rely on them. I do keep them locked over the slide when there's film in so I don't accidentally pull the dark slide when pulling a holder out of the bag. You learn all this stuff the hard way.

Kent in SD

wiltw · Mar 12, 2022

GKC said:
Empty film holders never leave the house. I keep them safe from dust in zip lock bags marked with a Sharpie empty

OTOH, there are those occasions when you load film holders and take them out for a shoot, but then return with unexposed holders. So back at home one has a mix of loaded and unloaded film holders to be distinctily identifiable, so that one does not need to take them all into the darkroom to check which ones are loaded.

MattKing · Mar 12, 2022

When the white side is out, the film is looking for the light.
When the dark side is out, the film can't wait to get into the dark(room).
Or whatever memory aid works for you.
Perhaps AgX can tell us how to say that in German?

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 12, 2022

MattKing said:
When the white side is out, the film is looking for the light.
When the dark side is out, the film can't wait to get into the dark(room).
Or whatever memory aid works for you.
Perhaps AgX can tell us how to say that in German?

WHite is like a blank white canvas waiting for you to paint in a picture. Black is the painting covered up to protect it.

GKC · Mar 12, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
WHite is like a blank white canvas waiting for you to paint in a picture. Black is the painting covered up to protect it.

Or the silver halides are fried.

Graham06 · Mar 12, 2022

Nitroplait said:
Film type indicated with masking tape: no masking tape = no film inside.

This is a change I'm making. Last time I was out I took different film with different speeds and processing requirements. I need to know more than "this frame is unexposed" when taking a photo, and the same when I'm back in my darkroom. Going to keep my "locked means film inside" and add "all frames with film get a masking tape label" along with "silver out means unexposed. black out means exposed" I don't always process exposed frames right away.

Habits become effortless once learnt. Thanks for the reply.

Graham06 · Mar 12, 2022

RalphLambrecht said:
Well... this is my convention:

Ha! Would you know I bought your book Way Beyond Monochrome a month ago, and when you posted this I went looking for it (pg 463 in my edition) and read it there. I would never cut into my beautiful mahogany holders that look like they were made 60+ years ago, but you gave me an idea: I can photograph large white on black cards with a frame number on. e.g "R. W. Lambrecht (6A)" and then cut up the resulting negative and tape to the underside of the bottom flap. The text only needs to be a few mm high. I know at least one frame in my 8x10 set has light leaks but I don't know which one.

(Off topic aside: It took me two tries to get your book. Bought the first copy from Amazon and their team of third party sellers, and received a photocopied print on demand book on matte copy paper. Left a 1 star review 'cos the seller was marked as Amazon. Second copy I bought second hand off e-bay, and it's lovely. Clearly haven't read it cover to cover yet but it is full of practical information. Second time this has happened. Other book was a math textbook)

AgX · Mar 12, 2022

Two23 said:
As for the dark slide securing pins, those have a habit of wandering around so I can't rely on them.

I got some holders where these levers have short, conical wood-screw threads. No way that the stay fixed in two positions after some use. One would have to put some putty into the thread.

grat · Mar 13, 2022

The top edge of the darkslide has a black side and a white side; the white edge can be identified in the dark by raised dots which can be felt with the fingers. Convention dictates that the white side face outward when the holder is loaded with unexposed film, and the black side when the film has been exposed, or when the holder is empty. In practice, this requires that you expose only film holders that have the white side facing out, and reverse the darkslide as you make each exposure.

--Ansel Adams, The Camera

grat · Mar 13, 2022

Graham06 said:
I can photograph large white on black cards with a frame number on. e.g "R. W. Lambrecht (6A)" and then cut up the resulting negative and tape to the underside of the bottom flap. The text only needs to be a few mm high. I know at least one frame in my 8x10 set has light leaks but I don't know which one.

Stearman Press had a blog article on this technique awhile ago: https://shop.stearmanpress.com/pages/diy-film-holder-index-tabs

They even have some downloadable targets.

Vaughn · Mar 13, 2022

My film gets darker when it gets exposed and developed (pretty dang clear when it is unexposed and developed), so black 'logically' means exposed to me. We enforced this convention at university -- too many new students handling 4x5 for the first time every quarter/semester.

I keep notes for every image made...tied to a holder by its unique number for its format. I have 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, and 11x14 holders. I'm always getting screwed up. So it goes. I don't lose sleep over it.

Graham06 · Mar 14, 2022

grat said:
Stearman Press had a blog article on this technique awhile ago.

Thanks for the pointer. I can follow steps that are proven.

neilt3 · Mar 14, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I posted the relevant part of an instruction sheet earlier in this thread.

Yes , I saw it .
My point being when you buy gear used , sometimes by the boxful , it doesn't come with instructions .
I imagine most people starting up with LF now are buying most of their kit used , so are unlikely to see an instruction sheet , if one ever existed in the first place .

Don_ih · Mar 14, 2022

neilt3 said:
Yes , I saw it .
My point being when you buy gear used , sometimes by the boxful , it doesn't come with instructions .
I imagine most people starting up with LF now are buying most of their kit used , so are unlikely to see an instruction sheet , if one ever existed in the first place .

I've never had an instruction sheet for a large format holder. I looked that one up to see if it mentioned that silver indicates unexposed. That is not where I learned that silver means unexposed - I'm not sure where I learned that. But, even without being explicitly told, an indicator generally is meant to indicate something. In this case, the indicator is the side that is different (silver with bumps, since everything else is black and smooth). It indicates that side can be exposed.

There's nothing stopping anyone from adopting their own way of treating the different sides of the darkslides or the holders themselves, but a single person's habit is not a convention. There is only one convention regarding this: silver = unexposed. The more time that passes and the fewer people learn from others, the less known that convention becomes until it completely disappears. It's obvious from this thread that it's already esoteric and hardly a "universally accepted convention".

markbau · Mar 14, 2022

The white side out/unexposed, black side out/exposed will work if you completely remove the slide from the holder. I've had too many sheets ruined by light leaks when I've removed the dark slide so now I just pull it out far enough to clear the film and them push it back in. On the slide I have a mark where the film area is completely uncovered.

wiltw · Apr 18, 2022

The 1991 book, The View Camera by Harvey Shaman, states that the white/silver side out is unexposed film, and the black side out is exposed film.

Doug Kaye · Apr 19, 2022

In addition to the light/dark sides of the holders, I put a rubber band over the top and bottom when a holder has film loaded. I originally did this just to keep the holders secure. Those little wire thingies you rotate simply aren't reliable. (Have you ever reached into your bag to pull out a film holder and accidentally pulled out a dark slide?) Then I discovered an added benefit: I use a red rubber band for color film and a blue one for b&w. Here are the rubber bands I use (Amazon U.S.): https://amzn.to/3KYjro7

AgX · Apr 19, 2022

There seems only one fool-proof way:

Apply stickers to both sides of a slide.

Both depicting the kind of film, but differ between unexposed and exposed.

(But of course one still has to care to replace the slide after exposing the right way.)

grat · Apr 19, 2022

If the holder's loaded, I put a colored dot on the frame, and follow the black/exposed (although it should be gray, since it's not developed) convention.

mrosenlof · Apr 19, 2022

I'm of the white=unexposed black=exposed or empty convention. The published texts I've read usually state this, but according to this thread, not always. This means only expose holders with the white side of the darkslide showing. This *seems* to be the common convention.

If you're doing everything solo, you can of course adopt any standard you want, but if others are involved with loading, shooting, or unloading, you'll need to coordinate.

In 30+ years of LF use, I've never had a darkslide pulled by careless handling and mostly find those little wire catches annoying, but don't try to remove them either. I've never considered using them to carry information. I have a hard enough time replacing the darkslide facing the correct way.

In LF, I normally stick to one film for months (or more) at a time, so mostly don't label film holders with contents. That's just me -- and I'm the only one involved with handling my films, so it works OK for me. On rare occasions when I come across a mystery holder, I'll check for film presence and notch codes in total darkness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notch_code is a good resource for resolving what film exists in a holder.

JL Nims · Apr 19, 2022

If someone has already mentioned it, I missed it. Sorry if I did. Here is my method: I follow the old convention of light side = unexposed; but I have a great app for my iPhone called FilmHolders. This app tracks not only which holder has what film; but whether the film is exposed or not - as long as you used it while shooting that is. Please check it out! It has made my life way less stressful regarding film holders.

Here is the link: FilmHolders

Conventions for indicating which film holders have film?

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