Contax RTS ii vs 139Q

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flavio81

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I'm primarily a rangefinder shooter (love my little Leica iif) who's looking for "my" SLR system as a compliment. I have an Olympus OM2 now, and love the small size but don't love the somewhat fragile feeling build and clunky film wind.

You are correct, it's a weak point. However, if you like the OM2 or the OM system, just keep using it, just be gentle with the film wind. The OM2N might be more reliable there.

As pointed out above the MX is a good alternative, it was a direct competition to the OM system and I personally love that machine. Also, often overlooked, the Pentax ME Super is part of Pentax's compact ("M") system and it would be more comparable to the OM2 in the sense that it also provides good automatic exposure. It's a highly ergonomic machine and it's very reliable after it has gone through complete service by a technician.

And on that point, does anyone know how both compare to something like the Nikon F3 or F2 in terms of weight and handling?

The F2 is a boat anchor compared to the OM cameras or the MX. The F3 is a bit lighter but still heavier and bigger than those.

If you want a light and more or less compact camera, or the most closest Nikon camera to the OM2, it would be the Nikon FE, which I find an excellent camera. Nikon has smaller cameras like the FG, which is smaller, lighter and even has more features, but the build quality is inferior to all the aforementioned cameras.

But for me the best "compactness-first and foremost" manual focus SLR cameras are Pentax MX and ME-super, and also the Minolta XD cameras (the minolta fans swear by them).

And the good Minolta lenses have nothing to envy to the other japanese lenses: Canon, Nikon, Pentax, or "Zeiss"
 
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I've always heard that the MX was a step below (or at least sideways) from the OMs, rather than a true "pro" camera like the F's, LX, etc. But they're so cheap that it might be worth trying one. Has anyone had a 139Q and these other compact "prosumer" level cameras? How does the build compare?

One thing that does appeal with Pentax, Nikon, and even Contax to an extent is I can have a few quite different bodies with one lens system. Like most people that still shoot film I'm a bit of a collector as well, but I hate having too many systems because I never end up with more than a single standard lens for each camera haha.

I really wish Olympus went all out on at least one of their cameras. The design of the OM is genius, but it does feel like they cut a few corners to keep prices reasonable. Same with the two Zuiko lenses I have, both have plasticky loose aperture rings. Maybe the OM3ti is different, it has to cost those exorbitant prices for some reason.

I have a "Zeiss" Planar 50/1.4 C/Y mount, made in japan, here, for service, and i'm not too impressed with the build quality, even less to see how the paint easily peels off in the similar way as the lower priced japanese lenses.
That's such a bummer. I CLA cameras myself so I trust your opinion if you've been inside one of these lenses. It's amazing what cameras are actually like when you strip them down, for example the Pentax SV I got for $15 was one of the most robust SLRs I've worked on, whereas a Rolleiflex SL35 was pretty disappointing. Pity the viewfinder on the SV hasn't aged well at all.

The LX has not held up as well as other pro level bodies of the 80s
I have heard this quite a bit, is it just the sticky mirror problem? As I understand it it's due to a poorly designed rubber piece that has to be replaced every 5-10 years. If that's all it is I can live with that, since I could probably do it myself.
 

flavio81

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I've always heard that the MX was a step below (or at least sideways) from the OMs, rather than a true "pro" camera like the F's, LX, etc.

That's what OM users say! Ha, ha ha... The MX is well built.

However, both Olympus (with the OM) and Pentax (with the MX) wanted to market their cameras as "professional" at some point. Yet they don't quite reach the level of features and ruggedness of the true "pro" cameras like the Nikon F series, Canon F-1 or Pentax LX.

That being said, the MX is well built and is a reliable machine. It's also rather simple to service, for example the slow-speeds governor is readily accessible if you remove the bottom cover. The common problem with them, caused by the main leaf switch, is easy to solve since it's also accessible by removing the bottom cover.

But they're so cheap that it might be worth trying one. Has anyone had a 139Q and these other compact "prosumer" level cameras? How does the build compare?

I have two 139Q here for service (still haven't opened them). I find the fit and finish ok, i mean, as good as anything good from Pentax or Nikon or Canon in the same segment. Yet nothing that would justify increased prices over the equivalent product from the other brands. After all, it is a YASHICA.

I really wish Olympus went all out on at least one of their cameras. The design of the OM is genius, but it does feel like they cut a few corners to keep prices reasonable. Same with the two Zuiko lenses I have, both have plasticky loose aperture rings. Maybe the OM3ti is different, it has to cost those exorbitant prices for some reason.

Olympus wanted to create some sort of elite image and priced their OM-3 and -4 exorbitantly high.

I, personally, feel no love towards the OM system. On the other hand some compact Olympus cameras are great, like the Pen S, or the Trip 35.

I CLA cameras myself

Nice!! Perhaps we'll meet again by chance at another internet forum.
 

MattKing

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Thank you so much for all the insight flavio81! Sounds like maybe I was prizing the 139Q a bit highly for it's lovely design and Zeiss glass, but the cost of it might not really stack up to that much of a quality jump over all the rest. There's always the S2, but from what I've read of the meter (always on spot with blinking LEDs) I think it would drive me mildly mad, and the S2b is truly silly money.

I also have the Pen S and it's such a wonderful little half frame, that tiny lens is super sharp.

That's great to hear about the MX serviceability if nothing else. I also owned an OM1 for a short time and the slow speeds were sticky, had to dismantle half the dang camera just to relube it. And MattKing I have heard really good things about the macro Zuiko's, I use the 50mm f3.5 with my digi to scan film and I have zero complaints. Bit of a slow chunky lens as a walk around though.

Heaps of food for thought, thank you so much everyone for the input!! This forum is amazing :smile:
 

xkaes

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I have heard really good things about the macro Zuiko's, I use the 50mm f3.5 with my digi to scan film and I have zero complaints. Bit of a slow chunky lens as a walk around though.

For some reason unknown to me, Olympus has always been at the forefront of macro and micro (microscope) optics. Whenever I end up in a lab or clinic that uses this type of gear, I usually see "OLYMPUS" more often than Minolta, Yashica, Nikon, etc. -- although they made great stuff too.
 
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It's so weird what other pies well known camera makers have their fingers in, like I only just recently learnt that Leica is also a big hunting scope and binocular maker. It makes sense given their reputation for amazing optics, but still.
 

flavio81

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I was prizing the 139Q a bit highly for it's lovely design and Zeiss glass

Zeiss glass? I think you mean "Tomioka glass with a Carl Zeiss decorator ring on top".

Zeiss glass was made in Jena and in Oberkochen, you can find it fitted to Contax rangefinders, Rolleiflex cameras, Hasselblad lenses, etc.

Sorry, i can't help it.

Now, that being said, Tomioka was a very good optical factory. Better buy the lenses that say "Yashica", less money and good quality.
 

flavio81

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I also have the Pen S and it's such a wonderful little half frame, that tiny lens is super sharp.

I have the pen W, which is a rare camera (wideangle lens). A Pen D, very useful machine, still compact but with a fast lens.

And twn Olympus 35SP which I don't like so much. Someday i'll get a mint Olympus 35RC, that's a great machine.
 

reddesert

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On the one hand I think SLRs of this generation - roughly late 70s-early 80s - are a high point in terms of usability, good size while not being over complicated. Such as Olympus OM-1 or 2, Nikon FM or FE, Contax 139 or Yashica FX-D, etc. On the other hand, they're all 40 years old. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it means that for any individual piece, condition is important. For any of them, one example may have a sticky shutter or a sloppy aperture ring; I'd rather have a clean Yashica than a beat-up Contax, etc. I think nearly all manufacturer's prime lenses are pretty good and would rather have a clean Konica than a scuffed Zeiss, and so on.

(There may be some general rules of thumb; for example, while I take Flavio's point that older Yashica DSB lenses feel more heavy and solid than ML lenses, I have seen several DSB's with stuck apertures and rarely see that on ML's.)

An off the wall suggestion, for something that costs little, lasts forever, and feels like a precision winding machine, there's the Nikkormat. Rather larger than an OM-2 or FE, and you need to make sure the meter works, but not quite as brick-like as the pro models.
 

MattKing

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For some reason unknown to me, Olympus has always been at the forefront of macro and micro (microscope) optics. Whenever I end up in a lab or clinic that uses this type of gear, I usually see "OLYMPUS" more often than Minolta, Yashica, Nikon, etc. -- although they made great stuff too.

Olympus started out being mostly involved with microscope and lab optics, then they expanded heavily into photography.
And now they are out of photography, and concentrating on microscope and lab optics.
What goes around ...
 

benjiboy

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From what you've said, I'd bet you would be happier with the 139.

I've had an RTS, and an RTS II, and they both died. Electrical failures. Done. RIP. Call it. They are notorious for this, so I cannot recommend them.
The 139 is meant to be much more reliable.
As for lenses? Well the "Zeiss" lenses that Contax used as made by Cosina - just like the Zeiss lenses they currently make for Nikon!!! The advantage of the Nikon F3 is that it will still be working, and you can also buy Nikon lenses for it!

I sold of my Nikon Fs because I much prefer my F2s. Everything that was "wrong" with the F was fixed in the F2. The F3 is a much more modern camera than the F2 - basically if you want AE, you want the F3. If you don't care, then the F2. Both my F2s (F2AS, F2 plain prism) needed to be serviced. The meter on the F2AS failed due to the common resistor ring failure. Sover Wong was able to fix that with a replacement part he makes.

Anyway, I'm not going to say get a 139, or F2, or... However I will say do not get an RTS/II

Don McCullin used to complain that his Nikon F's in Vietnam we're very difficult to reload under fire laying on his belly because of the removable backs.
 

Vaidotas

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Which lens you like more?
Nikkor 35/2 or Distagon 35/2,8?
There is a lot examples here and there - choose one.

So, my choice is Zeiss.
The last analog SLR on my hands for 5 years is Contax 139 and I"m happy with it.
I just simplified things a bit. 28, 35, 50 mm Zeiss gems (made by Cosina, whatever), thats more than enough.
And, by the way, I spent more than 20 years with Nikon analog manual 35 mm SLR equipment, you name it.
And most important thing - just go and make some nice photographs in way you can do.
 

flavio81

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(There may be some general rules of thumb; for example, while I take Flavio's point that older Yashica DSB lenses feel more heavy and solid than ML lenses, I have seen several DSB's with stuck apertures and rarely see that on ML's.)

Well, I didn't say this, but... i guess you are correct. I have an old Yashinon-DS here that is very nicely made. Stuck apertures I've seen on almost any brand of lens.
 

flavio81

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An off the wall suggestion, for something that costs little, lasts forever, and feels like a precision winding machine, there's the Nikkormat. Rather larger than an OM-2 or FE, and you need to make sure the meter works, but not quite as brick-like as the pro models.

The Nikkormat is really tough and reliable (except the meter), and well made, however the OP seems to be looking for a compact and small camera, and the Nikkormats are still heavy machines.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I've shot with a fair amount of Contax cameras over the years. I've never had a 139 though, so I can't speak to anything about it other than the well-known issue with the body covering (looks awful, but it's a relatively easy/cheap fix if you want the camera). In the past I've had a pair of 167mt bodies, and an RX. Currently I have an RTS III, which was a camera I could only dream about at the time they were new. It is a big, heavy camera (relatively speaking) with a 6 AA battery power supply. The reasons to want it even in spite of the weight are the capabilities of the camera (1/8000 top shutter speed, 1/250th top flash sync, the vacuum film plane which holds the negative flat against the pressure plate at the moment of exposure, 5 fps motor drive, and the quirkiest of its features - the otf ttl flash metering for non-dedicated flash units). It also has some great ergonomic features - a 100% viewfinder, and (IMHO) perhaps the smoothest, silkiest shutter release action of any film camera I've used.

If you are still considering the system, another camera you might want to look at is the 167mt - it's smaller and lighter than the RTS, and it is one of the newer bodies in the lineup ( the RX is newer, but it is bigger/heavier than the 167). The 167 had one particular feature that was groundbreaking- it was the first camera to feature auto-bracketing. The weak point (again, imho) is the batteries - by default it uses AAA batteries, if I recall correctly. That saves on weight and bulk, but they don't last as long. There is a battery booster grip for it that replaces the bottom plate and lets you use AA batteries, at the cost of some size and weight. Also, the 167 was the first body in their lineup to take advantage of the MM mount (which stands for multi-mode) - MM lenses will let you shoot not only in aperture priority, but also shutter priority and full-auto program modes - earlier bodies don't have a program mode, so do not require MM lenses. The non- MM lenses are sold as AE lenses. When you look for them, you'll see the lenses marketed as MMJ (J stands for Japan), AEJ, or AEG (Germany). I think there may be MMG lenses but if they exist they are very uncommon. Some people put higher value on the AEG lenses just because the glass was made in Germany. I do not know that in the real world of usage it makes any difference. Just be aware of it from a pricing perspective. AEG lenses are more likely to be older than J lenses of either variety.

Another body you might look at is the S2/S2b. No motor drive to add weight, more compact like your Olympus.

The reason above all to get into the Contax lineup is the glass. They made some phenomenal glass, and unless you have to have the super fast versions of their lenses, they're still very affordable compared to the Leica equivalents. Last year I picked up a 300mm f4 telephoto to use mostly adapted on my Fuji XT2 for doing wildlife shots. I wanted something inexpensive because I don't do that much wildlife shooting, and the Fuji native lens that would be close to it was almost $2k. I got the Contax lens plus a 2x teleconverter and a trio of macro extension tubes for under $500. Recently I got a 100mm f3.5 for doing casual portraits for $200-ish. If you want the fast 100 f2, that will still set you back over $600. Same deal with the 85 2.8 vs the 1.4. The 2.8 is $200-ish, the 1.4 will run you over $600 for one in good condition.
 

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In terms of build quality the top of the line "pro" level cameras, F, F2, F3, Topcon Super DM, Canon F1, F1n, and F1New, Minolta KX, KXmotor and Pentax LX were were built for hard daily use. The reason they are heavy cameras. The MX, Nikormatt, Canon FtB, Minolta 101, 201, 310 and X700 all had great build quality still not as rugged as the pro line, and lacked some the features of the top of the line cameras. The U.S Air Force, A.P, and LA Times field tested the OM1 and it did not hold up as well at the Nikon F and F2. Saying that, unless you are a daily user any of the "pro consumer" camera will work just as well, take the same lens, and are generally less expensive.
 

John Koehrer

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I hesitate but really don't remember Leica r6 but when Leica went for it ............
Fewer features than the Nikon F series but bright finder & fully mechanical except for meter. Weight was 22 grams size closer to Nikons.

Realty
sets in for what you want and Nikon was the only camera(SLR) with a 100% finder, everything else had around 95%.
The Contax was a great feeling camera but electronic & didn't trust them even then. Pentax MX or OM-1 were my choices and I couldn't get used to the shutter speed around the lens.

still have the original F with non-metered finder. Weight would be against it for you.
 

flavio81

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sets in for what you want and Nikon was the only camera(SLR) with a 100% finder, everything else had around 95%.

They never had "100%" finder, they had, as the official F3 and F2 specification say, "virtually 100%". They can't really guarantee 100%, that would be very difficult to achieve.

The other pro cameras are for practical purposes, similar, for example,"97%" (Canon F-1New and original F-1), "98% vertical, 95% horizontal" (Pentax LX), "98%" (Minolta XK), "97%" (Topcon Super DM).

The amateur cameras are typically around 92% or less.
 
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Thanks for all the amazing input everyone! Thinking more about it a Pentax LX could be a good option — smaller and lighter than Nikon F’s, more “professional” than a Contax 139, and I like that it has a mostly mechanical shutter (my Leica is an iif so I’m used to not having slow speeds if the electronics did fail).

I’ve never shot anything Pentax, outside of the cheaper lenses how does the glass stack up to Nikon and Contax? And other than the sticky mirror issue (which I think is easy enough to fix?) are there any other issues with the LX?

I imagine the build would be a step above the Contax and OM2, but not quite a Nikon F2 or my barnack Leica
 

MattKing

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An OM-2n is more likely to be serviceable than a Pentax LX, and I would say it is of similar build quality.
 

Trask

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The Flying Camera rightly mentions the 167MT. I bought one in Hong Kong in the 1980's and it's still going strong. I always found its recommended exposure via internal metering was very accurate, and the auto-bracketing was very useful when needed. I have the add-on AA battery pack which admittedly adds some bulk but does provide extended power availability. I have two RTS II cameras, each with a problem which means I must send one off to Nippon Camera Repair in NYC -- I'm willing to pay to get one repaired because I really like the red LEDs in the viewfinder, makes using the exposure system much easier on my 71-years-old eyes (ditto for the Canon T90). And it feels so very solid and good in the hand. Finally, I have an Aria body I bought at the Bievres photo gear show outside Paris about six years ago -- a great price because it is missing the little button to change metering (a toothpick works fine). The Aria is much lighter than the RTS or 167MT, smaller in the hand, takes great photos, though, as with many cameras, the in-viewfinder LCD display is harder to see at times. I've a number of Zeiss lenses for the Contax cameras, and they all produce find photographs. If I had to strip down to only one system among those I have, I might choose the Contax gear -- it's certainly a contender.
 

Paul Howell

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I’ve never shot anything Pentax, outside of the cheaper lenses how does the glass stack up to Nikon and Contax? And other than the sticky mirror issue (which I think is easy enough to fix?) are there any other issues with the LX?

What I've read in the Pentax forums is that the LX is experiencing shutter issues, failing electronics. I have Pentax lens, most of the M42 primes from 24 to 400, all are coated, many super mc along with a few K mounts. I've shot Konica, Nikon F to F3 with primes, a few zoom, currently have Minolta MF and AF, along with odd and ends, Petri, Topcon, etc.. In the past I had Leica and Canon 39mm screw and used Leica M bodies and lens in the Air Force. My old M42 lens will hold their own, Pentax limited edition lens are highly rated. In the 90s Popular Photography tested a brace of 50mm lens rated the Pentax LE 50mm as the best on the market. In term if IQ, Minolta and Konica are very good lens. I don't think Konica ever made a bad lens.
 
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