Conceptual vs Traditional Photography - questions for the viewer

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In my first stint in grad school, back in 1970, they wouldn't let me teach photography because since I had worked with Minor White, I was suspected of being "straight", where the head of the program was committed to "New Photographics"? Anyone remember that annual show? .


Very interesting post, Bowzart. The excerpt of yours I quoted above is pretty funny, but it also suggests the attitude of some curators in the NYC area hold with tenacity. It doesn't matter how compelling, beautiful, or well made a photographic body of work may be if it doesn't fit into the style de jour it just isn't "art" and it will not be shown unless you're already established. (There are a number of galleries that do show work of all kinds, but the photographers are already recognized as wall worthy.) My wife and I have gone to many, many art galleries and seen a wide range of work including, and this isn't a joke, dangling colored paperclips that made some sort of pattern. We are astonished that these galleries, slaves to the fashion of the moment, can pay the rent. However we don't go back every month to see if they have. :wink:
 
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ilya1963

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Some galleries sell those things to people to decorate their houses , last show I had the gallery owner told me that she is in a great location since she is surrounded by multimillion dollar homes ... Do you do art with the idea of it being decoration ? She had picked a very strange selection of my works , but managed to sell 4 pieces ...as an artist I don't know if you can worry about what galleries do , I like what Larry said about being multidimensional , that's the way I work , I happen to befriend a great museum director who told me that if someone would look at my body of work they would say that I am all over the place , but it falls under one umbrella "ILYA"

Just a thought.
 
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...I am all over the place , but it falls under one umbrella "ILYA"
Just a thought.

And a beautiful thought. I hate to categorize work, when all it really should be is our voice and what we want to show with our pictures. Some people make it so difficult. Especially gallery owners... :smile:

I just like to look at pictures. And making them. I categorize them in 'interesting / well done' and 'not so interesting / well done'.

But I believe art is an investment for many. And I think that is the root of the 'problem'. A gallery owner has to pay rent, and people (art investors) feel better spending money on something that will yield a pay back some day.
 

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Another thing to consider with regard to prices of photography vs painting (for example) is that photography is (generally speaking) reproducible. Painting are valued higher because they are individual, non-reproducible, pieces. There is a definite logic to it, the rarer something is, the more you can charge for it. That is why vintage photographs my master photographers go for prices comparible with paintings (think certain famous westons). Galleries have tried to alter this dynamic by having artist produce limited editions, but there is an inherent difference between something reproducible and something non-reproducible.
 

Larry Bullis

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...I happen to befriend a great museum director who told me that if someone would look at my body of work they would say that I am all over the place , but it falls under one umbrella "ILYA"

Just a thought.

Ilya, just like Pablo. Picasso got away with that. Doubtless because he was so prolific and so facile in all the media he worked with that he had enough output to actually be as many artists as he used media in his work. One artist or more than one, in each medium. Incredible accomplishment. In light of that, I have to admit that I just ain't there. But, I've stopped needing to be. Fortunately. We can't all be Picasso. Some are definitely "more equal" than others.

L.
 

Larry Bullis

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... I believe art is an investment for many. And I think that is the root of the 'problem'. A gallery owner has to pay rent, and people (art investors) feel better spending money on something that will yield a pay back some day.

Well, I won't say I'm not aware of the value of my art collection. It's modest, but I do have one or two fairly valuable pieces, often acquired almost by accident, more than smarts. I have one piece that may well make a real difference in my retirement prospects. There's nothing really wrong with that attention to value, but when it becomes dominant, there is a problem. A lot of real art investors are quite well aware of the quality of what they buy, and aren't necessarily swayed by public taste. The smart ones know that public tastes are very fickle. Of course, then there are the folks who bet their shirts on Thomas Kincade. Are they going to be surprised!

Unfortunately, galleries must keep an eye to the market in order to stay in business. Many go bust. From their point of view, taking on an untried new artist is risky; safer to go with names and trends. Sometimes their fear is really well founded.

I'm more inclined to believe that the "root of the problem" is less the $$ factors, and more just plain ignorance on the part of the public. Galleries survive on their ability to cater to what people want. When people are lead by ignorance, they have no concept of what it's all about. An example from the CBC following its ruination of Radio 2 (I know, I know, some people actually LIKE it, but not me): One of the new announcers, defending the broadcaster's gutting of the content complained that he just couldn't figure out why the classical music lovers were complaining so much. He said it made no sense, because they still played a lot of music that was "relaxing". Hoo Boy! Out to lunch!

The really good galleries see themselves as educators; they lead people from one level to the next, taking them at the taste level where they come into the market, and helping them learn to see.
 

ilya1963

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Ilya, just like Pablo. Picasso got away with that. Doubtless because he was so prolific and so facile in all the media he worked with that he had enough output to actually be as many artists as he used media in his work. One artist or more than one, in each medium. Incredible accomplishment. In light of that, I have to admit that I just ain't there. But, I've stopped needing to be. Fortunately. We can't all be Picasso. Some are definitely "more equal" than others.

L.

Au-ch Larry , who implied that? Who cares ? I just do what i do ! could not care what they do.
 

Larry Bullis

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Au-ch Larry , who implied that? Who cares ? I just do what i do ! could not care what they do.

Did you mis-read me or did I mis-speak? Had nothing to do with you, my dear. More a general observation.

I know it is probably strange, but to my mind, thought space is like buying a warehouse. First you buy it to have a lot of space, then it quickly gets full and you need a bigger one. I always try to carry any idea as large as it will go, and so often, I'm not understood. It's nobody's fault but my own. Sorry to hurt you, if that's what happened. Sure didn't mean to. It would be the last thing I'd ever want to do.
 

ilya1963

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Did you mis-read me or did I mis-speak? Had nothing to do with you, my dear. More a general observation.

I know it is probably strange, but to my mind, thought space is like buying a warehouse. First you buy it to have a lot of space, then it quickly gets full and you need a bigger one. I always try to carry any idea as large as it will go, and so often, I'm not understood. It's nobody's fault but my own. Sorry to hurt you, if that's what happened. Sure didn't mean to. It would be the last thing I'd ever want to do.

Don't worry about this Larry, no hurt on my part , what I was referring to is a comparison to Picasso, out of all people, a bench mark that just can not be obtained and why would you even try to? I am not sure if he cared what Galleries thought or did either, just thought you were reaching a bit with Pablo.

In light of that, I have to admit that I just ain't there. But, I've stopped needing to be. Fortunately. We can't all be Picasso. Some are definitely "more equal" than others.

L.

This is what I was saying au-ch to , the fact that you actually cared some time or another . I speak for myself here, but all heroes and idols come to pass , why bother ., I just take what I can from them and move on.

Regards, Ilya

Sorry John, I think your question here was to a viewer and not artist , I am speaking from the artist's point of view , as a viewer I would just ignore the works that have no soul ... I try to take that approach with my work as well...Decorative art is so far away from my world , when a gallery owner tells me she has clients with multi-million dollar homes and my work is going to decorate their walls I cringe...Some artist produce work for that and only that purpose
 

ilya1963

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Decorative art is so far away from my world , when a gallery owner tells me she has clients with multi-million dollar homes and my work is going to decorate their walls I cringe...Some artist produce work for that and only that purpose


And yet, the duality of what we do is that all art is decorative.
 
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