Completely new to medium format - advice please

[Steven Lee]

I am yet to get a good understanding of the reasons to go with slide over film strips, or vice versa, or can you even do slide images in 120?

The reason is your personal preference. Try all 3 and decide what you like more. You may decide to purchase a slide projector, or scan them, or both. Some people are perfectly happy just looking at MF transparencies on a light table

 

[hankchinaski]

A note about labs…since there has been a “gap” in interest in film, many have sold their film equipment and outsource film work. This means it will take weeks to get film developed and the quality of the scans WILL be bad. If you don’t live in a major city, where a lab with film equipment is, you might be better off sending it to a lab through the mail.

An anecdote…once I was trying my new Bessa R and the fantastic voigtlander 50/1.5 LTM. So I shoot a roll and bring it to my local lab, which gave it back to me in 4 weeks. The photos were very so-so, almost point and shoot level. Out of curiosity, I brought the film to a lab with a noritsu scanner…basically the first lab had spread butter on their scanner…and photos from the nokton were SCREAMING GOOD.

 

[Don_ih]

And I have no problem with them because it trim the corners of the film before I load them. I have only been using them over 15 years.

How they are compared to other reels and whether or not I, you, or anyone else has a problem with them are separate issues. I use them - I clip the corners of all my film - I bend the leading edge of 120 to make it go on the spool easier. It only takes me a minute to load a reel. But there are other reels that are better. Even the older Jobo reels for hand-held tanks are better than the ones I use.

 

[OAPOli]

I would first dry fire the shutter at different speeds to see if they sound ok. You can test it if you remove the back or via the multi exposure switch. Next you can test the film advance if you have a dummy backing paper roll. Without lens and dark slide, shoot on bulb and mark frames 1-15 with a sharpie to check for overlap and spacing. Also, I had issue with light leaks on SQ backs. I look for those with a tiny LED light in the spool compartments or behind the mirror. Easy to fix with some light seal material.

But easier still, buy a few rolls, shoot using phone app as exposure meter or Sunny-16 and have them developed and scanned locally. See if the camera works and if you like the results. It might be too early to talk about DIY developing. It's fun but it's an investement in time and money.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How they are compared to other reels and whether or not I, you, or anyone else has a problem with them are separate issues. I use them - I clip the corners of all my film - I bend the leading edge of 120 to make it go on the spool easier. It only takes me a minute to load a reel. But there are other reels that are better. Even the older Jobo reels for hand-held tanks are better than the ones I use.

I also clip the corners for the Hewes reels. The Hewes reels are much easier to load and are sturdier than the others so the top and bottom are less likely to get out of being parallel from handling or dropping. One of the problems with other reels is that the top and bottom get out of parallel causing loading problems and problems with the film slipping off.

 

[Keezly]

None of us were born with this knowledge, someone helped each of us. Do not be afraid to asking questions.

• I like stainless steel tanks with Hewes reel for daylight tank development. The Hewes reels are more expensive but it will save time an frustration. Practice loading any reels in daylight with developed film until you get good at it.
• Have a piece of linoleum or thick rubber to thump the tank on several times each time you pour in a new chemical or water, that prevents air bubbles, called air bells sticking to the film.
• Use and reuse stop bath with indicator after emptying out the developer. After fixing, wash the film and use Kodak PhotoFlo [follow the mixing instructions, do not just throw in some into water], then hang to dry. Do not use a squeegee or fingers to remove the excess water, instead put a paper towel at the bottom corner of the film to draw off the water. That avoids a number of problems.

Thank you for the tips. It is very helpful.

 

[Keezly]

I would first dry fire the shutter at different speeds to see if they sound ok. You can test it if you remove the back or via the multi exposure switch. Next you can test the film advance if you have a dummy backing paper roll. Without lens and dark slide, shoot on bulb and mark frames 1-15 with a sharpie to check for overlap and spacing. Also, I had issue with light leaks on SQ backs. I look for those with a tiny LED light in the spool compartments or behind the mirror. Easy to fix with some light seal material.

But easier still, buy a few rolls, shoot using phone app as exposure meter or Sunny-16 and have them developed and scanned locally. See if the camera works and if you like the results. It might be too early to talk about DIY developing. It's fun but it's an investement in time and money.

Sadly there is nowhere locally to me: I am out in the sticks in a very rural area. I have an old roll of film that came with the camera, could I test with that? Thanks for the tips. All this help that everyone is giving is very much appreciated.

 

[images39]

Check out what Rodinal and Foma can do on medium format:









or just foma in general:

Those are superb photos.

Dale

 

[Pieter12]

The reason is your personal preference. Try all 3 and decide what you like more. You may decide to purchase a slide projector, or scan them, or both. Some people are perfectly happy just looking at MF transparencies on a light table

I would caution against shooting slide film for your first forays into film. It can be spectacular, but your exposure needs to be spot-on. Negative film, both color and black and white, has tremendous latitude so if you're off by a stop or so, you can still make a decent print or scan.

 

[OAPOli]

Sadly there is nowhere locally to me: I am out in the sticks in a very rural area. I have an old roll of film that came with the camera, could I test with that? Thanks for the tips. All this help that everyone is giving is very much appreciated.

I'm sure that there are quality labs in your country that offer mail-in developing? I would use the old roll as a dummy to test for correct film advance.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I would caution against shooting slide film for your first forays into film. It can be spectacular, but you exposure needs to bee spot-on. Negative film, both color and black and white, has tremendous latitude so if you're off by a stop or so, you can still make a decent print or scan.

I agree. Make sure your camera and what you use as a light meter works correctly first.

 

[Keezly]

I would caution against shooting slide film for your first forays into film. It can be spectacular, but your exposure needs to be spot-on. Negative film, both color and black and white, has tremendous latitude so if you're off by a stop or so, you can still make a decent print or scan.

Thanks for that explanation: I wasn't aware of the difference.

 

[Steven Lee]

I would caution against shooting slide film for your first forays into film. It can be spectacular, but your exposure needs to be spot-on. Negative film, both color and black and white, has tremendous latitude so if you're off by a stop or so, you can still make a decent print or scan.

Well... I would argue that with B&W and CN your scanning technique needs to be spot on too. A scan is going to be the OP's first experience anyway. I'm not sure if you're aware, but most labs will produce horrific scans with color casts, clipped shadows/highlights, oversharpened grain, etc.

So the risk of ruining the first experience is quite high. It's unavoidable.

That's why I recommended to the OP to listen closely to advisors with impressive scans shared online, as a reference for what's possible. Otherwise an advice is just warm air (or, in the case of this medium, wasted bytes).

 

[Keezly]

I'm sure that there are quality labs in your country that offer mail-in developing? I would use the old roll as a dummy to test for correct film advance.

Yes there are mail in places, but it would have been good to be able to go somewhere local. Thanks for the pointer to use the dummy for testing film advance.

 

[Keezly]

Well... I would argue that with B&W and CN your scanning technique needs to be spot on too. A scan is going to be the OP's first experience anyway. I'm not sure if you're aware, but most labs will produce horrific scans with color casts, clipped shadows/highlights, oversharpened grain, etc.

So the risk of ruining the first experience is quite high. It's unavoidable.

That's why I recommended to the OP to listen closely to advisors with impressive scans shared online, as a reference for what's possible. Otherwise an advice is just warm air (or, in the case of this medium, wasted bytes).

I noticed that one place I looked at: https://analoguewonderland.co.uk/ had different standards you could choose for the scan: jpeg, tiff, etc. What do you all chose for the scans? I use lightroom and NIK collection for my digital shooting and would like to be able to use the scans in those two.

 

[Steven Lee]

@Keezly Those options determine two things: the maximum print size and your ability to make adjustments to colors/tone of their scans by digitally editing them.

• For large printing, select the biggest scan size
• For digital editing, select 16-bit TIFF

But these options do not address the root cause: bad quality scanning. If their personnel butchers your scan (examples: clipped highlights or over-sharpening), it's going to stay butchered no matter what output options you choose. Lab quality is quite important.

 

[Keezly]

@Keezly Those options determine two things: the maximum print size and your ability to make adjustments to colors/tone of their scans by digitally editing them.

• For large printing, select the biggest scan size
• For digital editing, select 16-bit TIFF

But these options do not address the root cause: bad quality scanning. If their personnel butchers your scan (examples: clipped highlights or over-sharpening), it's going to stay butchered no matter what output options you choose. Lab quality is quite important.

Thanks for the explanation. It is much appreciated.

 

[reddesert]

Nobody mentioned reading the manual. I strongly suggest reading the manual for the Bronica ETRS before diving in head first. If you don't have it you can get a copy from https://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica.htm

Loading the film is not really difficult if you follow the instructions, but it isn't as simple as loading a 35mm film. The camera needs a 6v battery to operate (PX28 or 4LR44 or equivalent), this battery is in current production and easily available but you may need to buy it online. There are various interlocks that will confuse you if you don't remember them, eg the shutter doesn't fire unless the darkslide is removed. There is a shutter in each of the lenses. The body and lenses need to be cocked to (a) see through the finder, and (b) dismount or mount lens from body.

The shutter doesn't test-fire without film in the camera unless either (1) you take off the film back, or (2) operate the multi-exposure switch (don't forget to put it back). You can wind a roll of backing paper without film through to test the winding and shutter, but you don't have an extra roll of backing paper yet.

 

[lxdude]

I had problems with my ETR lenses shutters not firing. You should make sure your lenses actually fire by taking the back off the camera and looking through while firing the shutter at various speeds.

This is a good spot to interject our recent exchange regarding this problem:

What Medium Format Cameras Are Members Here Using?

Really? I haven't investigated the Bronica lenses much, but I'd particularly like to get the 50mm working. Thanks for reminding me of this thread - I had planned to find where I've hidden those lenses, now I should be able to remember to do it. I posted how to do it in photo.net a long time...

www.photrio.com

 

[Jay Schrotenboer]

Nobody mentioned reading the manual. I strongly suggest reading the manual for the Bronica ETRS before diving in head first. If you don't have it you can get a copy from https://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica.htm

Loading the film is not really difficult if you follow the instructions, but it isn't as simple as loading a 35mm film. The camera needs a 6v battery to operate (PX28 or 4LR44 or equivalent), this battery is in current production and easily available but you may need to buy it online. There are various interlocks that will confuse you if you don't remember them, eg the shutter doesn't fire unless the darkslide is removed. There is a shutter in each of the lenses. The body and lenses need to be cocked to (a) see through the finder, and (b) dismount or mount lens from body.

The shutter doesn't test-fire without film in the camera unless either (1) you take off the film back, or (2) operate the multi-exposure switch (don't forget to put it back). You can wind a roll of backing paper without film through to test the winding and shutter, but you don't have an extra roll of backing paper yet.

I would definitely second the recommendation for reading the manual, it didn’t take me long to get one after I got my ETRSi as it did not come with one, very helpful. Also it is definitely best to learn how to load the film before you try to do that, it is possible to load it backwards and still run it through the camera “taking pictures” and unload it all without knowing that you have not taken a single picture. Or so I have heard

 

[Sirius Glass]

One can break a camera by not reading the manual first.

 

[Pieter12]

One can break a camera by not reading the manual first.

Particularly a Hasselblad.

 

[GregY]

I prefer metal reels since they dry more quickly if you're processing a bunch of film. The Hewes reels are great, but my favourites are the Kinderman 35 and 120 reels for which they made loaders. A breeze to load.

 

[Pigsonboy]

Hi Keezly

I have this camera and shoot with it occasionally.
I got it second hand a few years ago and it came with the matte screen.
I wear glasses and found this screen to be OK but had the chance to buy the microprism split image screen - this is much better for me. It cost about £25 but now they go for much more as they are scarce. I much prefer this screen as it's easier to get focus.
See attached page from Bronica manual
Also I recommend Fomapan as it's the cheapest in the UK (but not Fomapan Retro 320 ), my choice is Fomapan 200

 

[hankchinaski]

None of us were born with this knowledge, someone helped each of us. Do not be afraid to asking questions.

• I like stainless steel tanks with Hewes reel for daylight tank development. The Hewes reels are more expensive but it will save time an frustration. Practice loading any reels in daylight with developed film until you get good at it.
• Have a piece of linoleum or thick rubber to thump the tank on several times each time you pour in a new chemical or water, that prevents air bubbles, called air bells sticking to the film.
• Use and reuse stop bath with indicator after emptying out the developer. After fixing, wash the film and use Kodak PhotoFlo [follow the mixing instructions, do not just throw in some into water], then hang to dry. Do not use a squeegee or fingers to remove the excess water, instead put a paper towel at the bottom corner of the film to draw off the water. That avoids a number of problems.

This is golden.

My variations on this:
- no stop bath (ymmv)
- after testing, I think I am halving or 1/3 recommended dose of photoflo (ymmv)

Also golden, trim the edges of film before loading, you will learn to do it in the changing bag.
If you don't buy a changing bag, you will get traces of light on your film, no matter how dark the room seems.
Re. expired film - I went to every store in town and bought all their expired film, and was free to take whatever crazy shot, it was so cheap! Your photos will be anything from horrible to excellent.
Re. slide film - feel free to experiment, a very general rule of thumb is to point at the brightest light on the scene and meter there - only problem, cost of developing color slide film will make you cry...
Re. b/w slide film - yes it exists and it will blow your mind and you can develop it at home, just a little bit more complicated


When in doubt - ask here - you will learn so very much faster. Medium format is the one exception to the rule of photography "the quality of your images is proportional to the cost of the hardware", a well exposed piece of film is equal or better than a 100Mpixel 6x6 sensor, people will not believe it came out of film.