Completely new to medium format - advice please

[Keezly]

Hi Everyone,

I am based in the UK and I have just been given a Bronica ETRS camera + lenses and flash unit, plus a Lunasix 3 light meter. I would be grateful for advice on the following points:

I see that there are interchangeable focusing screens and I was interested in which one would be considered the best for people that wear glasses, or is there no difference? Are these focusing screens easy to obtain, and if so around how much should I expect to pay for one?

When first trying out using the camera I am hoping to minimise costs until I know what I am doing (I haven't used film cameras for over 30 years and then it was just a rubbishy little film camera that came in exchange for vouchers at the petrol station: really poor quality!). Is there a cheap film that you can recommend - I don't mind b/w, I just want to keep costs to a minimum while I decide whether this type of photography is for me, and also to check out the camera for any issues - it all looks to be in immaculate condition, but you never know until you try using them do you?

What sort of set up costs would I be looking at if I decided to start processing my own film at home (UK) and what are the pitfalls to doing that?

Regarding the light meter, the batteries are mercury ones that are no longer available. Does anyone know of a work around in the UK for using alternative batteries? The light meter is in immaculate condition and I would prefer to get it working if I can.

Many thanks for your advice and help.

Best regards,
Keezly

 

[Don_ih]

You can likely use an app on your phone as a meter. The LunaSix may not work even with the correct batteries (I have three - only one is accurate).

Is the waist-level finder mounted on your ETRS or is it a prism finder? I like the split-focus thing on the screen - faster, easier focusing.

Ilford HP5+ is the film to try.

Ilford also sells a small kit of complete developing chemicals (dev, stop, fix) and you could likely find a used Paterson tank for not much money. You need a very dark room or a changing bag. One issue, however, is that loading 120 film onto a Paterson spool can be challenging. Stay away from expired film if you want to get the film on there at all.

I had problems with my ETR lenses shutters not firing. You should make sure your lenses actually fire by taking the back off the camera and looking through while firing the shutter at various speeds.

It's a great camera with great lenses - if everything is working.

 

[hankchinaski]

Hi Everyone,

I am based in the UK and I have just been given a Bronica ETRS camera + lenses and flash unit, plus a Lunasix 3 light meter. I would be grateful for advice on the following points:

I see that there are interchangeable focusing screens and I was interested in which one would be considered the best for people that wear glasses, or is there no difference? Are these focusing screens easy to obtain, and if so around how much should I expect to pay for one?

When first trying out using the camera I am hoping to minimise costs until I know what I am doing (I haven't used film cameras for over 30 years and then it was just a rubbishy little film camera that came in exchange for vouchers at the petrol station: really poor quality!). Is there a cheap film that you can recommend - I don't mind b/w, I just want to keep costs to a minimum while I decide whether this type of photography is for me, and also to check out the camera for any issues - it all looks to be in immaculate condition, but you never know until you try using them do you?

What sort of set up costs would I be looking at if I decided to start processing my own film at home (UK) and what are the pitfalls to doing that?

Regarding the light meter, the batteries are mercury ones that are no longer available. Does anyone know of a work around in the UK for using alternative batteries? The light meter is in immaculate condition and I would prefer to get it working if I can.

Many thanks for your advice and help.

Best regards,
Keezly

I can only advise on the film/film developing part.

If you have a hybrid workflow (develop and scan) than you are looking at this kind of money:

- for color film: the price of film plus the price of development (color dev at home is an extreme PITA)
- developing hardware (Jobo tank, film changing sack, some chemicals etc) 100 to 200 euro, 200 only if you want to splurge
- foma film is about euro 5/roll and is excellent, also the various rollei, agfa etc. Ilford and Kodak b/w films are more expensive and imho only useful for very specific image rendering, the only justified expensive b/w films are imho acros and cinestill (many people will disagree on this one ).
- after initial cost, cost of chemicals per roll is something like 30 cents per roll, if you use rodinal than it goes down even more, consider that grain is almost invisible on medium format
- for scanning, you can use a flatbed epson scanner, very nice, but I have seen better results with a dslr scanning kit and a camera (https://www.valoi.co/), I think both options are equivalent in price, maybe 500 euro or little more. You might want to let a store develop and scan for you for the first rolls, until you know you want to pursue this.
- a computer of course and some photo software, you already have a computer and the photo software you can skip in the beginning until you know you like this.
- there are no pitfalls in developing at home, only advantages, because it will give you control on how the image comes out at the end (choice of developer, agitation etc), and it's extremely cheap, the only pitfall is deciding to develop color, since it's expensive to set up and you have no control over the variables, so it's best to let a lab do it.

Personally, the sheer fascination of b/w film has made this expense very largely justified - check out maybe some foma films on rodinal on MF on flickr, it's unbelievable.

 

[Keezly]

Many thanks for your speedy response. My replies below:

- I have both types of finder: waist level and prism.

- Thank you for the tip regarding film to use and avoiding expired film ( Portra 160vc expired in 2000 came with the camera). Also for the tips on what is needed for developing.

- Thank you for the tip re shutter; I shall try that later.

The man that had it kept in in very good condition in a hard silver padded carry case. He just hadn't used it for a long time. I have always fancied trying medium format - I shoot digital at the moment - so was overjoyed when he offered it to me.

Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Keezly

 

[Keezly]

I forgot to ask: are there any particular apps for light metering that you recommend for Android system phone? Thanks.

 

[hankchinaski]

Check out what Rodinal and Foma can do on medium format:









or just foma in general:

 

[Nitroplait]

For mercury battery replacements, try zinc-air hearing aid cell with dumb adapters. Don't waste money on Wein cells.

Camera Batteries and Adapters Archives - Milly's Cameras

Here we offer camera battery replacement and solutions to the now discontinued mercury cells. TR164 PX 32 EPX164 PX164A HM-4N 164PX MR9 625A MRB625 PX625 EPX625 PX13 PX640 EPX640 V640PX H-N E640N MR52 NR52 1126MP

cameramill.co.uk

In my experience commercial development of black and white is often more costly than development of color (C-41) even though the B&W film is cheaper to purchase.

Developing B&W film at home (without printing) is fairly easy and cost efficient. You can then photograph the negatives with a digital camera, reverse them and think of that as contact sheets.
From there you can pick the good shots and send those out for printing.

I find Paterson reels close to impossible to load with 120 film. I would recommend you learn to use Hewes reels from the beginning.
I have bought from https://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/ when the UK was still in EU and have good experiences.

 

[Nitroplait]

Regarding the light meter, the batteries are mercury ones that are no longer available. Does anyone know of a work around in the UK for using alternative batteries? The light meter is in immaculate condition and I would prefer to get it working if I can.

The Lunasix 3 is a nice meter if it works.
There are two scales depending on light levels. They should be in agreement, that is; when you shift from reading the highest measure on the low level scale, it should read as the lowest value on the high level scale.
You'll understand when you have feed it with zinc-air cells and read the manual (can be found online).
If the above is the case, there is a good chance the meter still gives a linear reading across scales and is useable.
However, the meter might not be giving a correct reading.
You may test that with a digital camera, by measuring the same scene.

You can compensate possible deviation by adjusting the ASA/DIN setting on the meter to reflect the observations from the test.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The least expensive path is to develop your own black & white film. I found that Kodak XTOL is very forgiving and easy to use.

If you want to save more money beyond just reusing XTOL per the directions, then go to replenished XTOL [directions in the pdf below]

 

[Pieter12]

I disagree about Paterson reels being difficult to load with 120 film. The trick is to make sure the little ball bearings in the groove are not stuck. Take a bent paper clip and nudge them before loading. I find the Paterson reels much easier to load than Jobo reels. Hewes reels are quite expensive, take a bit more learning to load (try in full light with some expired film first until you get the hang of it) and be careful you don't drop the reel, there's a good chance it may distort and become useless.

 

[Don_ih]

The man that had it kept in in very good condition in a hard silver padded carry case. He just hadn't used it for a long time.

The lack of use can cause the shutter to fail. It has lubrication that dries out and causes parts to stop moving properly. It's definitely worth trying the shutter before loading film.

Phone light meters: I did have one installed once, but don't recall what it was. I know there was several - if you search "best light meter app" Lux Light Meter Pro seems top of the list. So, you can start from there and check the app store reviews (that may be an ios app).

I find the Paterson reels much easier to load than Jobo reels.

I only use Jobo reels and can confirm - they're horrible for 120.

 

[MattKing]

For 120, I prefer the AP/Samigon/Arista Premium 3rd party reels that are compatible with the current Paterson Super System 4 tanks. Those reels have a wider "loading ramp" flange that makes it easier to load 120.
I have too many meters, but they include a nice Lunasix 3. I've use two type of battery adapters in that meter - the "mechanical" ones that physically adapt the zinc air hearing aid batteries - inexpensive, but short lived. I currently have the "electronic" battery adapters in there - using diodes to drop the voltage from a long lived silver oxide cel. They are really good meters, if yours is working well.
The quality of a metering app for a phone may vary with the type of phone.

 

[Steven Lee]

@Keezly you are getting quality advice here. This community is probably the best place online group when it comes to all things film. The difficulty may be in choosing one of numerous (all great) opinions presented in this thread. Films, chemicals, types of processing tanks, etc. I can only offer some "meta advice":

• Go for consistency. If you're taking advice on film from a person, also start with the chemicals that person uses.
• Prioritize advice from those who shared their work. In this thread only @hankchinaski delivered, but other forum members may have something uploaded to their "Media" sections.
• Things to avoid:
  • Monobath (single bath) chemistry like DF96. There's a rolling thread somewhere here with pretty telling samples.
  • LAB-BOX tank. Everyone here will probably agree that they are a nightmare.
• If you have access to a good lab (this is important), let your first 10 rolls be developed by them. Some color negative, some B&W, some transparencies. Here's why:
  • This will let you taste the hobby and see if it's for you without investing into home chemistry & equipment.
  • You will know how properly developed (and hopefully scanned) film looks like. You will need this as a reference when you switch to home development and scanning.

Good luck!

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Vouch for Foma for cheap film. Foma or Arista EDU 400 is quite good.

Don't bother changing the focus screen unless it has obvious scratches/damages.

For your lightmeter, I use the same lightmeter with this adapter:

MR9 MR-9 PX625 PX13 Battery Adapter for Film Camera & Exposure Meter / Mercury | eBay

Price is for one adapter only. Use of 386 / SR43W Silver Oxide battery (1.55 V) to.

www.ebay.com

Tip, use silver oxide batteries, never alkaline or you will get inconsistent readings.


Lunasix is an excellent meter for low light conditions.


Best regards.

 

[Keezly]

Check out what Rodinal and Foma can do on medium format:

Thanks for the examples. I love that cat shot!

 

[Keezly]

For mercury battery replacements, try zinc-air hearing aid cell with dumb adapters. Don't waste money on Wein cells.

Camera Batteries and Adapters Archives - Milly's Cameras

Here we offer camera battery replacement and solutions to the now discontinued mercury cells. TR164 PX 32 EPX164 PX164A HM-4N 164PX MR9 625A MRB625 PX625 EPX625 PX13 PX640 EPX640 V640PX H-N E640N MR52 NR52 1126MP

cameramill.co.uk

In my experience commercial development of black and white is often more costly than development of color (C-41) even though the B&W film is cheaper to purchase.

Developing B&W film at home (without printing) is fairly easy and cost efficient. You can then photograph the negatives with a digital camera, reverse them and think of that as contact sheets.
From there you can pick the good shots and send those out for printing.

I find Paterson reels close to impossible to load with 120 film. I would recommend you learn to use Hewes reels from the beginning.
I have bought from https://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/ when the UK was still in EU and have good experiences.

I was surprised to see that B&W was more costly for developing than colour: I had assumed it would be the other way round. Thanks for the other tips I shall look into them.

 

[Keezly]

The Lunasix 3 is a nice meter if it works.
There are two scales depending on light levels. They should be in agreement, that is; when you shift from reading the highest measure on the low level scale, it should read as the lowest value on the high level scale.
You'll understand when you have feed it with zinc-air cells and read the manual (can be found online).
If the above is the case, there is a good chance the meter still gives a linear reading across scales and is useable.
However, the meter might not be giving a correct reading.
You may test that with a digital camera, by measuring the same scene.

You can compensate possible deviation by adjusting the ASA/DIN setting on the meter to reflect the observations from the test.

That is a good idea about testing with a digital camera: I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the info on what to check.

 

[Keezly]

The least expensive path is to develop your own black & white film. I found that Kodak XTOL is very forgiving and easy to use. View attachment 317440
If you want to save more money beyond just reusing XTOL per the directions, then go to replenished XTOL [directions in the pdf below]

Thank you for this information I shall have a read of it and try to understand: I am on a steep learning curve!

 

[Keezly]

I disagree about Paterson reels being difficult to load with 120 film. The trick is to make sure the little ball bearings in the groove are not stuck. Take a bent paper clip and nudge them before loading. I find the Paterson reels much easier to load than Jobo reels. Hewes reels are quite expensive, take a bit more learning to load (try in full light with some expired film first until you get the hang of it) and be careful you don't drop the reel, there's a good chance it may distort and become useless.

Thank you for the tips. It is information I need to come back to a few times.

 

[Keezly]

The lack of use can cause the shutter to fail. It has lubrication that dries out and causes parts to stop moving properly. It's definitely worth trying the shutter before loading film.

Phone light meters: I did have one installed once, but don't recall what it was. I know there was several - if you search "best light meter app" Lux Light Meter Pro seems top of the list. So, you can start from there and check the app store reviews (that may be an ios app).


I only use Jobo reels and can confirm - they're horrible for 120.

A bit like the old sewing machines I have an interest in: everything seizes up through lack of use. Thanks for the tip on the light meter app.

 

[Keezly]

For 120, I prefer the AP/Samigon/Arista Premium 3rd party reels that are compatible with the current Paterson Super System 4 tanks. Those reels have a wider "loading ramp" flange that makes it easier to load 120.
I have too many meters, but they include a nice Lunasix 3. I've use two type of battery adapters in that meter - the "mechanical" ones that physically adapt the zinc air hearing aid batteries - inexpensive, but short lived. I currently have the "electronic" battery adapters in there - using diodes to drop the voltage from a long lived silver oxide cel. They are really good meters, if yours is working well.
The quality of a metering app for a phone may vary with the type of phone.

Whereabouts did you buy the battery adapters from? I have a few hearing aid batteries that are new from a relative that died just after getting them so that would be a cheap option to try first. Thanks for the other information.

 

[Keezly]

@Keezly you are getting quality advice here. This community is probably the best place online group when it comes to all things film. The difficulty may be in choosing one of numerous (all great) opinions presented in this thread. Films, chemicals, types of processing tanks, etc. I can only offer some "meta advice":

• Go for consistency. If you're taking advice on film from a person, also start with the chemicals that person uses.
• Prioritize advice from those who shared their work. In this thread only @hankchinaski delivered, but other forum members may have something uploaded to their "Media" sections.
• Things to avoid:
  • Monobath (single bath) chemistry like DF96. There's a rolling thread somewhere here with pretty telling samples.
  • LAB-BOX tank. Everyone here will probably agree that they are a nightmare.
• If you have access to a good lab (this is important), let your first 10 rolls be developed by them. Some color negative, some B&W, some transparencies. Here's why:
  • This will let you taste the hobby and see if it's for you without investing into home chemistry & equipment.
  • You will know how properly developed (and hopefully scanned) film looks like. You will need this as a reference when you switch to home development and scanning.

Good luck!

Thank you for the useful pointers: they are very helpful. I am yet to get a good understanding of the reasons to go with slide over film strips, or vice versa, or can you even do slide images in 120? Help on that would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Keezly]

Vouch for Foma for cheap film. Foma or Arista EDU 400 is quite good.

Don't bother changing the focus screen unless it has obvious scratches/damages.

For your lightmeter, I use the same lightmeter with this adapter:

MR9 MR-9 PX625 PX13 Battery Adapter for Film Camera & Exposure Meter / Mercury | eBay

Price is for one adapter only. Use of 386 / SR43W Silver Oxide battery (1.55 V) to.

www.ebay.com

Tip, use silver oxide batteries, never alkaline or you will get inconsistent readings.


Lunasix is an excellent meter for low light conditions.


Best regards.

Thank you for a pointer for where to get the battery adapter. Do I need one for each battery or just the one for the bottom battery? There are some marks on the focusing screen, will this affect the image?

 

[Sirius Glass]

The lack of use can cause the shutter to fail. It has lubrication that dries out and causes parts to stop moving properly. It's definitely worth trying the shutter before loading film.

Phone light meters: I did have one installed once, but don't recall what it was. I know there was several - if you search "best light meter app" Lux Light Meter Pro seems top of the list. So, you can start from there and check the app store reviews (that may be an ios app).


I only use Jobo reels and can confirm - they're horrible for 120.

And I have no problem with them because it trim the corners of the film before I load them. I have only been using them over 15 years.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you for this information I shall have a read of it and try to understand: I am on a steep learning curve!

None of us were born with this knowledge, someone helped each of us. Do not be afraid to asking questions.

• I like stainless steel tanks with Hewes reel for daylight tank development. The Hewes reels are more expensive but it will save time an frustration. Practice loading any reels in daylight with developed film until you get good at it.
• Have a piece of linoleum or thick rubber to thump the tank on several times each time you pour in a new chemical or water, that prevents air bubbles, called air bells sticking to the film.
• Use and reuse stop bath with indicator after emptying out the developer. After fixing, wash the film and use Kodak PhotoFlo [follow the mixing instructions, do not just throw in some into water], then hang to dry. Do not use a squeegee or fingers to remove the excess water, instead put a paper towel at the bottom corner of the film to draw off the water. That avoids a number of problems.