Comment about XTOL in Adox / Lina Bessonova video

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

The problem is the video doesn't give the basis for the statements made.

Seriously, if that bothers you so much, why don't you just ask Mirko and Lina? They're pretty easy to find out, have publicly available means for being contacted, and appear to be overall decent individuals that are not out there to heap slander upon other corporations.

You found a throwaway statement in a YouTube video, and you want to open a libel case for it on Photrio? I'm ringing the Supreme Court of Internet right away, sir.

 

[K-G]

Are these two threads aplicable here ? :

( See post #40 , Henning Serger )
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...blem-batch-of-xtol.171299/page-2#post-2229697

( See post #6 , Peter B )
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/xtol-warning.704646/


Karl-Gustaf

 

[Ian Grant]

it is not enough to show an Excel chart, and even in a hurry, and throw the stone and hide your hand ...
I'm referring to the video.
if any one says that xtol has a "huge difference" compared to the old xtol, whatever it means, it must also say why and on the basis of which data, otherwise it will not be credible

If you have an issue with the video take that up with the maker via Youtube and not here where she won't respond, is she even a member ? And that goes for anyone else as it's not appropriate to make vague personal attacks when the person can't respond.

So ask in the right place on Youtube.

I've used a reasonable number of Kodak black & white '120' roll films in the last year with the newer glossy backing paper, without any sign of issue.

I don't use Kodak films any more but it's been a well known issue, and has also affected Foma and Ilford to some extent. I've had no issues with Foma or Ilford films or Kodak when I used them.

Ian

 

[Tom Kershaw]

You found a throwaway statement in a YouTube video, and you want to open a libel case for it on Photrio?

For the record I made no comments about lawyers or libel etc, and have not made any personal attacks.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

If you have an issue with the video take that up with the maker via Youtube and not here where she won't respond, is she even a member ? And that goes for anyone else as it's not appropriate to make vague personal attacks when the person can't respond.

So ask in the right place on Youtube.




I don't use Kodak films any more but it's been a well known issue, and has also affected Foma and Ilford to some extent. I've had no issues with Foma or Ilford films or Kodak when I used them.

Ian

I simply don't like the way the video states some "facts", and that Adox let it be published. But to me it stops here.

 

[Craig75]

I spotted this video on YouTube a few days ago:

Curiously, there is a comment part way through about the current product producing lower quality results, but without much detail (3 min 58 secs) - I'm still working through an older batch at the moment but do have one of the new packages in stock. I had thought the recent XTOL problems were down to a packaging issue and not something more fundamental, if indeed this the case?

All the H&D curves displayed on the computer are showing is that the new version develops to a slightly lower contrast than the older version as far as i can tell.

It doesn't look a major issue to me but obviously if that is Adox's findings then they will revise the development times in new XTOL upwards for their films.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

All the H&D curves displayed on the computer are showing is that the new version develops to a slightly lower contrast than the older version as far as i can tell.

That is why I thought the way it was mentioned in the video was odd.

 

[Craig75]

That is why I thought the way it was mentioned in the video was odd.

if youre running a tightly calibrated printing system; zone system, you need a specific contrast index for an alt process, graded papers etc then new xtol will produce poorer negatives according to adox's tests. You're going to have retest everything to get it all calibrated again which is going to be a major pain

if you have to develop it for longer too then all other things being equal then you are going to end up with more grain.

So it's probably fair to say its "worse" beyond just a lower contrast index as thats going to have repercussions down the line for many people and Adox must be confident that they can mimic old xtol better than kodak can.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

So it's probably fair to say its "worse" beyond just a lower contrast index as thats going to have repercussions down the line for many people and Adox must be confident that they can mimic old xtol better than kodak can.

I like to try and follow what Adox are up to as they seem very closely connected to market demands, I guess because of the Fotoimpex connection. I've just this evening mixed up a batch of the "new" XTOL so will report back if there are any unpleasant surprises.

 

[NB23]

And then there were allegations on the internet that even D76 was different..

 

[pentaxuser]

if youre running a tightly calibrated printing system; zone system, you need a specific contrast index for an alt process, graded papers etc then new xtol will produce poorer negatives according to adox's tests. You're going to have retest everything to get it all calibrated again which is going to be a major pain

if you have to develop it for longer too then all other things being equal then you are going to end up with more grain.

So it's probably fair to say its "worse" beyond just a lower contrast index as thats going to have repercussions down the line for many people and Adox must be confident that they can mimic old xtol better than kodak can.

Can you say where your pretty definite conclusions above are drawn from? Was all of this from the few seconds we saw two lines on a laptop labelled old and new Xtol or do you have other info.

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Craig75]

Can you say where your pretty definite conclusions above are drawn from? Was all of this from the few seconds we saw two lines on a laptop labelled old and new Xtol or do you have other info.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Well yes you can conclude quite a lot from two lines if those two lines happen to be h&d curves.

 

[radiant]

Conclusion:

- some US XTOL batch was faulty but that is being taken care of already, doesn't affect XTOL in globally. Manufacturers are humans and make mistakes. Not nice but a reality.
- some new (old) information that new XTOL develops with a bit lower gamma - does this even matter, that you need to print at grade 3 instead of grade 2 ? BTW: if you know some percentage to increase dev time to fix this, please inform us
- Few people have to constantly underline that they don't like some youtube-video
- Mirko and Lina are couple! Awwwwwww!!!! <3

So what about if we move on?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

The video by Lina Bessanova shows the test results of reversal processing Scala film with the new kit. The results are quite interesting! Contrast is a little low for my taste and the highlights look a bit dull. It could be an issue of fine tuning the processing to one's taste. Frame 21-22 is quite nice. Interestingly, the slides appear to have a brown tint (see the strip of slides in the video at time 7:29). Does this mean that the kit won't give natural black tone? Or was a sepia toner used to get the brown tint?

@Alessandro Serrao: what are your comments on Lina's test results?

 

[Anon Ymous]

The tone one gets from reversal processing depends a lot on the film itself. A very fine grain film will naturally give warmer tone.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The tone one gets from reversal processing depends a lot on the film itself. A very fine grain film will naturally give warmer tone.

I'll be looking out for how the new Adox kit is packaged and what the instructions are in terms of different film types and processes.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

The tone one gets from reversal processing depends a lot on the film itself. A very fine grain film will naturally give warmer tone.

If the brown tone in the slides shown on Lina's video is due to the film itself, then it's a bit disappointing. The choice of toning should be left to the users. BTW Fuji Acros also gives a brown tone upon reversal as observed by Henning and for the same reason was disliked by customers of Studio 13.

 

[koraks]

- Mirko and Lina are couple! Awwwwwww!!!! <3

This does bring up a very MAJOR question though...





Who'se going to do the wedding pix and WILL THEY BE SHOT ON ADOX FILM!???!?

 

[pentaxuser]

This does bring up a very MAJOR question though...
Who'se going to do the wedding pix and WILL THEY BE SHOT ON ADOX FILM!???!?

We've all had our say about the video so it's nice to see someone restore a bit of fun

pentaxuser

 

[mshchem]

I'm about ready to fire up my Jobo, I've got 5 rolls of 120 2 rolls of 135 E6 to develop. I wish Adox well, but I use Kodak, Ilford and Fujifilm, films. No interest in reversal black and white. I have enough Tetenal produced XTOL to last me a couple years.

These two characters seem to be having fun, doing good work. Any well run analog companies like this are welcome. From a photo paper standpoint they are up against Ilford and Foma. I still have frozen Polywarmtone if I had to choose I would take Fomatone. Ilford papers are as good as any I've used over the last few decades. The latest RC from Ilford is extraordinary!

I love little Adox and their retail shop. I have their Rodinal and it works perfectly. I look forward to seeing the latest Lupex, and anything else. I agree that not to read to much into this little video. Let's have fun!

 

[mshchem]

This does bring up a very MAJOR question though...





Who'se going to do the wedding pix and WILL THEY BE SHOT ON ADOX FILM!???!?

The brides hair calls for color!

 

[MattKing]

I have enough Tetenal produced XTOL to last me a couple years.

As far as I can tell it is still produced by Tetenal - unless there is another likely manufacturer in Germany.
I wonder where the packaging comes from?

 

[removed account4]

According to her Instagram posts she is engaged to Mirko, which makes me wonder how independent she really is.

what great news , I am happy for the 2 of them!

 

[mshchem]

As far as I can tell it is still produced by Tetenal - unless there is another likely manufacturer in Germany.
I wonder where the packaging comes from?

Yeah, who knows. I haven't had any problems with the "new" XTOL. It's just ordinary XTOL. At first I thought it was coming from Adox, who knows. I have so darn much chemistry right now I'm going to start a lab.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

If the brown tone in the slides shown on Lina's video is due to the film itself, then it's a bit disappointing. The choice of toning should be left to the users. BTW Fuji Acros also gives a brown tone upon reversal as observed by Henning and for the same reason was disliked by customers of Studio 13.

@Anon Ymous: You're right. Lina confirmed on Facebook that the kit does produce light brown tone on fine grain films such as the Scala films.