Color correction for Rollei Digibase CR200?

[ME Super]

Very cool. Can't wait to see those scans to see how well it behaves when pushed 1 stop. I may just have a reasonably priced "400 speed" slide film in my toolbox if it works well!

 

[spatz]

So I got the film and scanned it on my epson 4990 @ 2400dpi. Just a bit of spotting and sharpening. Might sound crazy but i think this film looks better underexposed and pushed by one stop. The grain is a touch more apparent but that's to be expected. For the price i think you really can't go wrong. Next stop, 800 iso and (gasp) 1600....

 

[spatz]

And to compare, here are some examples of normal exposure and development. All these were shot on a Nikon FA with a 28mm 2.8ais using matrix metering, by the way.

 

[Kyon Thinh]

Thanks spatz for your test, but I like normal exposure more than under.

 

[destroya]

i guess i gotta roll a roll (?) and shot some of this film again. I did a test a year or so ago and just found the film to grainy and bland for me. and since you can get some slightly outdated rolls of provia 100 for about $20 more I decided to move on from it. but maybe its time to revisit it

 

[ME Super]

Thanks for sharing you results, spatz. Looks like there's a bit of a contrast bump in pushing one stop, but the results are less contrasty than pushing Provia 100F 2 stops, for sure. I also like the photo you took of the red wire spool at box speed and processed normally. It reminds me a bit of Kodachrome reds.

 

[Roger Cole]

Thanks spatz for your test, but I like normal exposure more than under.

So do I - the contrast and saturation are better at box speed as well as, most noticeably, the shadow detail. But it is quite workable at 400. (I also learned years ago in doing my own E6 that I got better results if I gave a bit more first developer time than the instructions specified for a one stop push - expose for one stop push and develop for 1.5 push, basically, so we might be able to get slightly better than this.)

Bottom line for me, based on these results, it won't replace the Provia 400X I have in the freezer and continue to buy as I can afford but once that is gone, it's a very viable slide film to shoot at 400.

 

[ME Super]

I typically have the lab do something similar when I push Provia. I'll shoot at an EI that is 1/3 stop slower than the EI I'm having the lab push to. I've shot Provia 100F at 320 then had the lab push 2 stops. I get a little more shadow detail this way. From the examples given above, I'm not sure that would be necessary with a one stop push with this film though. I think if I was going to push 2 stops I'd only shoot it with an EI of 640.

 

[spatz]

Sorry guys what i meant is that given i now have a cheap 400 iso slide film on hand, this fact makes the film more useable in more lighting situations and hence get some shots i might not get properly at 200iso. I wasn't talking specifically about 200 vs 400 purely in terms of image quality.

ME Super - thats interesting about shooting at 1/3 stop lower EI. do you have some examples of provia 100f at 320? i would be interested see how well it handles the underexposure. And yes i chose subjects for both normal and -1 exposure which had a good deal of red/yellow/brown in them to see how they would compare to kodachrome's palette. not bad i must say.

Just a side thought, i came across this photo on flickr (no affiliation with the photographer) and thought this film would be perfect for making similar style images. http://www.flickr.com/photos/38463255@N00/4723426624/

 

[ME Super]

The first image here is Provia 100F shot at box speed and developed normally. I'm not sure why it has a red cast to it - the slide doesn't look that way. I give my son credit for this image. The second is Provia 100F shot at EI 320 with a 2 stop push from the lab.



Grain is basically invisible even with a two stop push, but you're giving up shadow detail too (in this case 1 2/3 stops because of shooting at 320 and developing for 400).

 

[Nzoomed]

Very Amazing! This experimentation with the Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 from Wittner-Cinetech is just fabulous!

looks like a push to ASA 400 yields some pretty good results, this film looks a bit warmer than the Provia 400.

On another interesting note the examples of the terribly "Yellow" CR-200 film, I have seen some theories expressed by some that Agfa in Belgium just plain sold a few master rolls that were defective, (severe Yellow cast) to Maco and both Maco and Agfa just played it off and covered up the fact that certain lots of film were defective (in denial), hopefully all the bad film has been disposed of by now or is no longer up for sale, I'll bet some ignorant or scamming ebay sellers still have some of the bad stuff for sale!

Now I am getting rumours that Agfa Belgium is not wanting to produce and coat any more Aviphot Chrome 200, I hope that rumour is not true and that they will continue its production.

I certainly thank all of you that have posted results from the Wittner-Cinetech packaged Aviphot Chrome 200, many thanks for the reports and results! it is rather nice film!

But.... Never the less.... the mystery of the "Yellow" CR-200 lingers on.....

I would like to try the 120 version of CR-200 from Maco/Rollei and Lomography X-Pro 200 and see how it is doing

IDK, but Wittner Cinetec told me that they have been guaranteed supply for at least 3 years from AGFA, which is a good sign.
All we can do is promote this film and shoot it as much as possible, with less E6 offerings, its only going to be harder, hopefully there is enough hobby photographers to keep E6 going.
Im glad i emailed Wittner regarding this film as they may never have put it into 35mm canisters if it wasnt for me!
They even used my photos on their page to promote the film.
It seemed to be alot more grainy than ektachrome, but other peoples uploads here seem to have less grain, so perhaps it was the way they were scanned?
The reds in some of those uploads remind me of Kodachrome somewhat, i feel it probably is the closest film to kodachrome.

 

[Nzoomed]

OK, its been a while since anyone's posted, but here are the first two frames on my last roll to be processed.
As i mentioned in my last post, light piping was an issue with this film, yet i still have experienced this despite me loading it in the dark.
Perhaps they still get too much light when packed in the canisters?

 

[AgX]

Of course one must use black canisters. But I assume you did.

But what puzzles me are those speckles inside the frame.

 

[spatz]

I recently returned from a trip to Japan where I finished a roll of Wittner 200d. When I had it processed alongside a lot of other fuji e6 (which came out flawlessly) there was definitely evidence of light piping and the 'yellow' effect. The story with this roll was I loaded it in subdued light and used it under tungsten lighting without a filter. After around 7 frames I unloaded the film with the leader still out and left the roll in an semi-translucent white film cannister in the fridge for a few months before going to Japan and finished the roll there. The images are quite yellow but its hard to tell whether this was because of lack of filtration or the yellow effect or perhaps both.

Here's an example:





You can see yellow/red light piping around the sprocket holes in particular in the first photo. The second pic was close to the end of the roll and while it does suffer from 'yellowing' it does not show the light piping as it is at the beginning of the roll. This roll was bought alongside 5 others from Wittner the results of which ive posted earlier in this thread where films shot at both 200 and 400 (when loaded and stored correctly as AgX states in black cannisters) turned out fine and without any yellow colour cast.

Bottom line is: load in subdued light and store in black cannisters!

 

[Nzoomed]

Of course one must use black canisters. But I assume you did.

But what puzzles me are those speckles inside the frame.

Yes they were in black canisters when i got them from Wittner, and this roll i deliberately loaded this in the dark!
The light piping effect looks the same as the first roll i shot, and i have no idea how it caused the speckles, the last roll did the same.

I will email the photo to wittner to show them, i can only assume they are not being placed in the canisters in a low light environment.

I recently returned from a trip to Japan where I finished a roll of Wittner 200d. When I had it processed alongside a lot of other fuji e6 (which came out flawlessly) there was definitely evidence of light piping and the 'yellow' effect. The story with this roll was I loaded it in subdued light and used it under tungsten lighting without a filter. After around 7 frames I unloaded the film with the leader still out and left the roll in an semi-translucent white film cannister in the fridge for a few months before going to Japan and finished the roll there. The images are quite yellow but its hard to tell whether this was because of lack of filtration or the yellow effect or perhaps both.

Here's an example:

View attachment 90010

View attachment 90011

You can see yellow/red light piping around the sprocket holes in particular in the first photo. The second pic was close to the end of the roll and while it does suffer from 'yellowing' it does not show the light piping as it is at the beginning of the roll. This roll was bought alongside 5 others from Wittner the results of which ive posted earlier in this thread where films shot at both 200 and 400 (when loaded and stored correctly as AgX states in black cannisters) turned out fine and without any yellow colour cast.

Bottom line is: load in subdued light and store in black cannisters!

That light piping looks identical to mine, although mine seems to travel into the frame itself in places.
Anyway, ive never noticed any yellow cast with my film, if anything this film tends to lean over to the blues/greens.
In saying that i still feel it has a kodachrome like feel, especially with the reds. The colours actually look more neutral than E100g, which is not always a bad thing, E100g seems to be alot more vibrant, let alone E100vs.
Below is a comparison:
The left photo is shot with E100g, now look at the photo on the right; thats the agfa stock from Wittner:
View attachment 90042 View attachment 90043
As you can see the red pants are quite different in colour.
I would say that the real colour of them is extremely accurate in the Agfa stock rather than the Kodak, which is quite interesting.
It has a real vintage tone with this film, although it seems harder to work with, IDK, but it seems that alot of my shots look underexposed, i wonder if i should try shooting at ISO100 to see if it makes any difference.
Here is another good shot from the same roll, again no yellowing whatsoever, i havnt shot kodachrome before, but i feel its close in some areas.
I wouldnt say that the grain is that bad either, more noticeable then kodak, but not enough to annoy you.
View attachment 90044

 

[rhmimac]

I want to update the topic of the Rollei CR200/Aviphot 200/Wittner 200d E6 film again. I was waiting for new CR200 a year and a half ago but the film didn't appear anymore on the Maco site as available. For fresh(?) film I had to wait till this year to see it reappear if I remember correctly. Now the CR200 packaging seems updated, the film is no longer available in black twin containers (very nice they were to store exposed film), but my question is: did anyone here shoot the new packed film yet? Is the color still "warm" to for many of us not allowed "yellow"? I preferred the warm tone film as my go to film to make moody shots and portraits in wintertime. It took the blue winter haze out of the scene. The brows and yellows were very pleasing of me. I will pick up the Rollei CR200 thread again, no matter if anyone is shouting " yellow" or "defunct" at it. Thanks for your replies.

 

[AgX]

Update on an update:

Agfa meanwhile list that film as "discontinued".

 

[rhmimac]

So we're talking about consuming the last stock here. Bummer… All hopes on Ferrania now. Fingers crossed. I will get some CR200 and start shooting it. Best to be it sitting developed and framed and sliding in/out of my beamer so I can enjoy watching it than having it all in my freezer and waiting for it to die. Thanks AgX for the update. Agfa Mortsel still seems to produce the X400 color neg film, which could be the CN200 Rollei, not?
http://www.agfa.com/sp/global/en/in...alphotography/color/recording_films/index.jsp

 

[AgX]

It was stated long ago that it won't be manufactured again once stock ends. Also that Agfa designation had been used vaguely so far, it still can mean that they got some stock.
Hope was that with changing competition they would start a run again. In a way what Film Ferrania is planning now. Though under much worse circumstances than Agfa.

 

[rhmimac]

Hope was that with changing competition they would start a run again. In a way what Film Ferrania is planning now. Though under much worse circumstances than Agfa.

The Ferrania folks deserve a medal for braveness and pushing things through with a plant which was left unattended a horrible amounts of years. Agfa still produces each day some master rolls I presume. Maybe "The Markets" are too niche now for E6 CR200/Aviphot to get the machines swapped over and start coating. They need a small factory for that which isn't the case now in Mortsel. Ilford did things better. They 'are' the niche now. Profitable now. Agfa could do the same with their heritage of aerofilm, which I'm sure lost their reason of existence because the pros in the planes also swapped film for a digital sensor workflow. What a pitty.

 

[Urmonas]

I too noticed the "new" CR200 listed on Maco and also Freestyle and B&H listed it as new. I tried a roll in 120. Expiration date 10/2017. I have shot only one roll as a test and it came out good, like proper fresh film. I have bought some additional rolls which I plan to shoot in a weeks time when I take a small vacation. I shall report how those look.

I had not realised that Agfa have now discontinued the film. I think this is makes me more sad than the discontinuance of any other film. It is the last of the realistic color positive film. Yes I preferred RSX II 50. But the 200 speed was acceptable.

I very much hope Ferrania can get their film out. They have had a though run of late with the asbestos and the cut of the umbilical to the power station. It is hard enough to get a start-up running, but such issues can be difficult for even a strong company to deal with.

 

[Nzoomed]

A few questions, are you saying that Agfa have ceased film production?
I contacted Wittner and they were guranteed a 3 year minimum supply from Agfa for their Wittnerchrome (which is the same Aviphot stock as CR200)

Secondly, should i stock up while i still can?
It is the cheapest E6 film on the market and i dont want to see it gone.

Thirdly If Agfa indeed has stopped E6 production, what about their Negative films?
They still have a maskless negative film which may also have been used for Aerial photography but i think they also claimed it was easier to scan, that was marketed as CN200.

 

[AgX]

As I said, the term "discontinued" is vague, and in any case likely not interferes with any deal made with
Wittner (which likely means a reserve kept frozen for them). Or any other stock in storage at some dealer.

Agfa have two maskless films. One got the "discontinued" designation too.

 

[Nzoomed]

As I said, the term "discontinued" is vague, and in any case likely not interferes with any deal made with
Wittner (which likely means a reserve kept frozen for them). Or any other stock in storage at some dealer.

Agfa have two maskless films. One got the "discontinued" designation too.

Yes that was what digibase CN200 is, ive wanted to try shooting it as im impressed with its results, despite what others such as PE have to say about maskless films.

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

I have picked up a roll of the newly packaged CR200 in 120 but haven't shot it yet as I had a roll of Crossbird (essentially the same thing) to shoot first. Will report back when I get to this roll.

The film has a particular soft spot for me as it conveys a very nostalgic look that the Fuji films don't manage to do.