Color correction for Rollei Digibase CR200?

[stefan4u]

Anyway, a kind of adjusting the chemistry and the workflow seems to be obligate, if you see such a strange result.
This was, by the way, the reason why I started homebrewing E6 chemicals a few years ago...
Maybe it will be easier for most people to try a slight pull development, and a slightly more acidic CD for home developing with “normal” chemicals.

Beside heavy photoshopping after scanning only disposal and banning the vendor will be an alternative…

Regards, Stefan

 

[ntenny]

Thanks for the data dump. Regarding granularity...

Diffuse RMS granularity (x1000) = 12.

...that's pretty high considering the speed, a bit grainier than Provia 400X. I'm not immediately conviced that the Rollei/Maco film is performing worse than spec in that regard; to me, what I've shot of it looks, well, a bit grainier than Provia 400X.

Which is why getting it in 120 would be nice; it seems like a perfectly good film when the color balance is behaving, but I've found it just a bit too grainy in 35mm, especially considering that I ended up shooting it at EI 160---for a speed gain of 2/3 stop over Provia 100F, that's just too much grain for my taste. YMMV and all that, of course.

-NT

 

[Nzoomed]

Here's something to think about, the datasheet quoted says that film speed can be doubled by increasing the first developer time by 3 mins, could the same be said if you reduced its film speed down to ISO 100 for example and reduced the first developer time? Or is that not possible?
I have read that shooting any film at a lower film speed can give you finer grain, but i guess you would have to compensate with development in some way or else you would have an under exposed image?

 

[Nzoomed]

Hey Folks,

Look at the lomgraphy site http://www.lomography.com/photos/films/871924584-lomography-x-pro-slide-200-iso-35mm These are photo sample thumbnails that you can click on, I am seeing perfect examples of the strong "Yellow" cast to them, others look quite good. the only mystery being is the captions by each shot do not say if the X-Pro Slide 200 (Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200) was processed in C-41 or E-6.

This will indeed confirm some of the mysteries? Provide some answers? I think you will be amazed!

Perhaps the "yellow" film has desireable qualities Lomographers want?

Quite true, it should also be pointed out that lomographers love to use expired films, and the effects that it gives.

Anyway, here's a heads up from Wittner-Cinetec, they are looking at the options for packaging this film in 36exp film canisters.
Is anyone concerned about having the film DX coded?
It doesnt really bother me at all personally, and id rather them save their time and effort to keep the costs down as much as possible. I dont think CR200 is DX coded anyway.
Im just glad we have a supplier that I know we can trust the quality of without uncertainty on the results once processed.

Here's their response, any feedback will be great.
------------------------------------------------------------
thank you for your message.
We will look into finishing 135 film cartridges very soon.
36 exposures film I think.

Do you think DX code is important?
Obviously we can more easily obtain non DX coded cartridges.
Would that be a problem?

And: Which price per film (36 exp.) would be acceptable for you?

I think we can do it, but I need to gather some more information
(light signature, frame numbers, cartridge, packaging etc.).

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Best regards

Ingolf Joost

 

[Arctic amateur]

Friends of mine have purchased Lomography X-Pro Slide 200 in the 120 size and say it looks fine, Does Lomography purchase Aviphot Chrome 200 direct from Agfa and cut it down or is Maco/Rollei doing the packaging for them?

I bought a five-pack of CR200 in 120 format from Macodirect this spring.



I haven't processed any yet, so I can't say anything about a yellow cast, and anyway I plan to home-process them (in Tetenal E-6).

 

[Nzoomed]

bumping for Alpenhause...

 

[Nzoomed]

Have any of you folks inquired with Maco/Rollei about some of their "CR-200" being "Yellow"?

I havnt asked Marco/Rollei about it, but i Told Wittner-Cinetec that i would be interested to hear any correspondence they may recieve from AGFA, im still unsure if AGFA are very aware of the issue.
Anyway the good news is that it looks like they are going to ship in 135 format canisters some time in the near future.

 

[Nzoomed]

This is very interesting to learn!
We will need to see more suppliers demand high quality film stocks if we will ever see this problem corrected.
Very reassuring to see lomography are concerned about this, since most of their film sold is cross processed in C41, its not really surprising that people haven't complained about it.
We may finally see light at the end of the tunnel once and for all with this "yellowing" effect.
The good news is that Wittner are keen to package this film into the 135 format canisters. I will forward to them any feedback from this forum (see post #70).
Since ive heard about this for over 2 years now, after i first heard of the film when photographers were looking for Kodachrome alternatives.
Its supposed to give very close colours to Kodachrome, especially the reds, so thats the main reason i want to shoot this, but even more importantly now that my Ektachrome E100g stocks are running low, i want to use another film.

 

[AgX]

Agx has mentioned the possibility that Agfa Belgium purchased some of the Master Rolls from Agfa Leverkusen when they were in insolvency?

I did not speak of master rolls.

I remember something really profound about my two 35mm CR-200 rolls that were yellow, the film edge markings said "CR-200 Germany", the package said film was from Belgium, could it be that the bad batch was indeed German made, shipped to Belgium then shipped to Maco/Rollei in Germany? I think I am going to see what type of base this film is coated on that I have, Tri-acetate? would be German, PE1 Polyethylene would be from Belgium.

I replied on this, to me invalid, theory in detail in PM.

you know what is interesting is that Agfa does indeed list Aviphot Chrome 200 as being available in 35mm on the Pdf I posted earlier, Agfa USA rep once told me the traffic survelance film is available in cartridges if you order enough of it, hence it is possible Agfa Belgium still has 35mm and 120 film packaging capabilities.

Not their reversal colour film but their 400 ISO unmasked colour film is offered as type 135 by Agfa.

Agfa has no longer type 120 converting facilities.

Agfa retracted from the consumer business long ago. There is no sign at all they would enter that field again on their own behalf.

 

[Nzoomed]

Kodachrome replacement? I am thinking you are referring to Kodachrome 200? I had used a roll or two and thought it was good, it is my brother who has over 25,000 Kodachrome slides who had a bit to say about Kodachrome 200, he said it had a bit of a pinkish cast to it, I thought it looked fine, my brother's favorite was the ultra slow 25 ASA Kodachrome, one thing for certain my brother would not even consider the thought of using Agfachrome or Ektachrome, he uses Velvia now.

I remember in 1976 when Kodak first introduced the E-6 Ektachrome 64 Professional film, This was the first E-6 Ektachrome, it looked and still looks absolutely fabulous today, has not faded or changed one bit!

I recently stockpiled 30 rolls of Ektachrome 100VS, this is the last Ektachrome and the best, no other E-6 film will ever match it.

You really should not compare the 200 speed Agfa slide with 200 speed Kodachrome per se, the Agfachrome has much better shadow detail and exposure latitude than Kodachrome, Why? You look at my brother's last Kodachrome 64 slides shot in the same place compared to my Agfachrome slides and the Kodachrome is way higher contrast with less shadow detail, we are both very active Railroad and train photographers and often shoot side by side so that is why I can comment rather accurately about how Kodachrome and Agfachrome look in a side by side comparison, he shoots with Nikons, I shoot with Canons, Voigtlander, Zeiss and Leica, My brother now has to adjust to "high speed" 100 ASA film, honestly do not know how he put up with 25 ASA film for so many years, I have to have a minimum of 100, 200 is even better! LOL!

Ive sent you a PM

 

[Arctic amateur]

Hope you understand that I cannot disclose the source of our color slide film as this is against our company's policy.

Since the CR200 I bought from Macodirect was labeled AGFA/Rollei CR200 on the can, and "Lomography X-Pro/Slide" on the backing paper/wrapping tape I think this point is moot.

 

[ntenny]

Since the CR200 I bought from Macodirect was labeled AGFA/Rollei CR200 on the can, and "Lomography X-Pro/Slide" on the backing paper/wrapping tape I think this point is moot.

I find it funny that there's such a universal code of nondisclosure when films are private-labelled, even though the information is almost always an "open secret" and often overtly revealed like this. I mean, I could understand if the agreements were actually taken seriously throughout---but when you have this sort of dual labelling on the product itself, what is the point supposed to be?

Anyway, it would be interesting to know if the Lomography folks see any prospect of a slower-speed version of their film. Leaving aside any explicit identification of the source, maybe you can just tell them "I looked at the film and I thought it would look even better if there were a version that was ASA 50, wink wink nudge nudge"...

-NT

 

[Nzoomed]

Yep, The Lomography folks don't really want to say where their film comes from but once you look at the product it is quite obvious of its origin.

It still might be a crap shoot if your rolls are going to be OK seeing that they are indeed from Maco/Rollei, probably be a good idea to shoot and develop just one to see how it turns out, if it is good and the rest of them have the same lot number they most likely will be good as well.

Based on what we have learned so far it would seem the Maco/Rollei product is the one that is risky.....

Now it begs the question if the "yellow" film was that that sat on dealer shelves far too long......

It is a good thing the Lomography folks are looking into this "Yellow" problem, their pride in the product is really good so we can count on them for good slide film

Yes thats good news that Lomography are looking into it, i sure as hell wont be buying the Rollei product until there is solid evidence its sorted, we can be assured that Wittner-Cinetec's product is reliable, and if lomography stand by theirs thats also good news.

I am going to be shooting some of Wittner's film in the next month or so, so i will keep everyone updated and post sample shots here.

 

[Nzoomed]

Here is the latest from Georg Thaler from Lomography in Vienna, They are finishing their newest batch of 35mm and 120 ASA 200 color slide film "X-Pro Slide 200"


Hi Steven



Thanks for your reply.



We are about to kick off finishing process for new 135 and 120 X-Pro film very soon, I’m expecting to have new stock ready for the market within some weeks, I’m afraid I cannot give you a very accurate date right now. Reg. your request where we pack those films – I cannot disclose detailed info, but let me tell you we are doing this with a very close fellow company, it’s more or less like our own factory.



I will get back to you reg. the supposed ‘yellow’ problem soon, our staff in all of our regions has already started with the tests.



Thank you very much & Have a nice weekend!!



Best Regards,



Georg



|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

lomographic society international

hollergasse 41

1150 vienna

austria

+43189944675

georg.thaler@lomography.com

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Its also very interesting to see that Lomography are suppling this and colour negative films in the 110 format!
If anything is going to keep colour film going strong, i think lomography is playing a big part in it.

 

[Nzoomed]

It is kind of interesting that Lomography seems to have a very close working relationship with Maco/Rollei but won't really comment, Remember! "Seems" is the word I am emphasizing here so don't rush to conclusions, LOL!

Would it be a safe bet to assume Maco/Rollei is now quite aware of the "Yellow" problem?

Oh, Hey! let's see if FreestylPhoto.biz in Hollywood has received its newest shipment of "CR-200", Perhaps some FreestylePhoto employees are taking a roll or two for a test drive?

Perhaps they do, but if so they probably havnt done anything about it unless we see all the new stocks of CR-200 perform properly.
Either way, a master roll is a large amount of film, what i want to know is if the master roll was faulty from AGFA, or if the film that Rollei bought from AGFA was stored incorrectly at some point?
I tend to think the problem was in the stock purchased from AGFA, i dont think it would be a faulty master roll, or else Wittner would have been experiencing the same problems with the yellowing.
The good news is that the demand of this film will have increased if Lomography and Wittner-Cinetec are now buying it, that means that AGFA will continue supplying the film as long as there is the demand for it.

 

[Nzoomed]

Here's an update on Wittner-Cinetec's site http://translate.google.co.nz/trans....wittner-cinetec.com/neu/news2013.php&act=url

 

[Nzoomed]

Yes, and more importantly, let them know too!
The more people that complain, the more that something can be done, my rolls from Wittner-Cinetec should be arriving next week, cant wait!

 

[kuparikettu]

Wittner Chrome 200D / AGFA Aviphot is now available at Wittner in 35mm canisters!

Prices:
from 1 pcs. (4.16 EUR netto) 4.95 EUR brutto
from 5 pcs. (3.32 EUR netto) 3.95 EUR brutto
from 10 pcs. (2.93 EUR netto) 3.49 EUR brutto
from 20 pcs. (2.48 EUR netto) 2.95 EUR brutto

Netto = without VAT, brutto = with German VAT 19%.

 

[Nzoomed]

Yes it is available thanks to the combined effort on this forum and a few emails exchanged with them!
My 2 rolls arrived today and i will share the results once i get it processed.
I cant wait to try this film, it may be a big, ask, but if there ever is enough sales of this, wouldnt it be awesome, if Agfa produce a finer grained ISO100 version of this!

 

[AgX]

Agfa sure won't do this on their own expense. And even with given formulae (Agfa RSX II 100, RSX II 50) a custom coating would still be expensive.

 

[Nzoomed]

Agfa sure won't do this on their own expense. And even with given formulae (Agfa RSX II 100, RSX II 50) a custom coating would still be expensive.

Quite true, but if they ever replaced this line with it, it may not be so expensive, the chemicals they produce for the emulsion cant be significantly different than this, you would think they would want to keep their best film in production anyway?
I dont know, there isnt anything really wrong with this film, other than its more grainy than kodak E100D.
I think this will be the last type of E6 film i will shoot after i run out of my Kodak, the only offering from Fuji that i like is Provia.

 

[destroya]

update...

i had a roll that was bulk loaded and sat for a few weeks before being used. the first 4 shots on the roll had a very strong yellow cast just like all the complaints that were logged against the film. the first 10 had severe coloring issues along the sprocket holes that produced sever color issues. the rest of the pictures were fine. my guess is that either the film being sold by others is old or had a very small amount of light exposure. this has me worried and as such i will not be buying any more. and with the film i have left i will only be rolling it when i need to use it. my guess with the the yellowing is it has something to do with the film base.

 

[railwayman3]

update...

i had a roll that was bulk loaded and sat for a few weeks before being used. the first 4 shots on the roll had a very strong yellow cast just like all the complaints that were logged against the film. the first 10 had severe coloring issues along the sprocket holes that produced sever color issues. the rest of the pictures were fine. my guess is that either the film being sold by others is old or had a very small amount of light exposure. this has me worried and as such i will not be buying any more. and with the film i have left i will only be rolling it when i need to use it. my guess with the the yellowing is it has something to do with the film base.

Is part of the problem one of light-piping in the base? I'm reminded of some of my Dad's double-8 cine films, where, if loaded in the camera in too bright light, there would be yellow/orange fogging flickering along the sprocket-hole sides of the film at the beginning and end when projected.

 

[MattKing]

Is part of the problem one of light-piping in the base? I'm reminded of some of my Dad's double-8 cine films, where, if loaded in the camera in too bright light, there would be yellow/orange fogging flickering along the sprocket-hole sides of the film at the beginning and end when projected.

This seems very likely!

 

[destroya]

dont think so. I loaded the film like i do any other film, in as dark a place as possible, otherwise the roll was finished within one hour of being loaded in the camera. now it did stay in a white film can for a few weeks with the leader out before ot was shot. those frames closest to the leader where the ones with issues. ill load a fresh roll from the bulk roll soon to see if its just getting leaks from the leader or not. keeping my fingers crossed....