Close up still life with 8x10 camera lens recommendations

[DREW WILEY]

Oh, there are plenty of folks who understand how to do long bellows setups, whether for actual macro work, or for especially long lenses in relation to distance photography. It just comes with the territory of 8X10 sometimes. What is a daunting challenge to one person might be classified as fun to another. I've known people who did amazing 8x10 closeup work commercially, and for sake of really big display prints; but they also had sizable studio gear budgets.

There are times I've been tempted to configure a bunch of spare Sinar components into an 8X10 true macro studio rig, but in each case, I took the lazy way out instead, and defaulted to 4x5. One of my 4x5 bellows has 28 inches of extension. But I have done 1:1 work in the field using an 8x10 folder.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

A 210mm lens that covers 8x10 is the Nikkor W. I've used it for wide angle work. No room for movements though, but that shouldn't matter with close up photography. Great lens.

 

[dpurdy]

Garlic shoots with 355 red dot artar and closeup diopter. Much more than 1 to 1


Tulip blossom the same..


and also a slice of cabbage also closer than 1-1


all 8x10

 

[Maris]

If you are going to do a lot of close-up work with a 8x10 camera get one where focussing is done by moving the back not the front.
Front focussing changes the distance between the lens and the subject which in turn changes the framing and the magnification.
There are combinations of subject distance and lens focal length where racking the front of the camera back and forth never finds focus at all. Most frustrating!

 

[blee1996]

If you are going to do a lot of close-up work with a 8x10 camera get one where focussing is done by moving the back not the front.
Front focussing changes the distance between the lens and the subject which in turn changes the framing and the magnification.
There are combinations of subject distance and lens focal length where racking the front of the camera back and forth never finds focus at all. Most frustrating!

Moving the back is also more practical. On a 8x10 with 300mm lens at macro distance, my arm is not long enough to move the front standard due to below extension.

 

[alkman]

I do some close-up and tabletop work with an 8x10 and have found the 240mm and 150mm G-Claron lenses work very well. The GC lenses are versatile and were originally used for reproductions in the 1:5 to 5:1 range; the 240mm at infinity (mostly) covers 8x10 with no movements. I use the plasmat versions of the lenses, but note that there are older dagor variations that are not uncommon.

 

[xkaes]

Hey, you don't have to be a 8x10 shooter to appreciate the benefits of REAR focus. Admittedly, most 4x5 cameras lack this feature (although some do move FORWARD, at least), but it sure makes matters a lot easier.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hey, you don't have to be a 8x10 shooter to appreciate the benefits of REAR focus. Admittedly, most 4x5 cameras lack this feature (although some do move FORWARD, at least), but it sure makes matters a lot easier.

In the situation, which includes 35 mm and roll film SLRs, the best way to focus is to set magnification as desired using extension (front standard, the lens' built-in focusing helical) and then move the camera-lens assembly to place the plane of best focus where desired.

Focusing by changing extension (by moving the rear standard) changes magnification and framing and moves the plane of best focus. Not the best way.

 

[MTGseattle]

I'm jumping in with what is likely a very basic question. Let's say I'm photographing a Quarter. They are just shy of 1" diameter (24.26mm I think) If I wanted the quarter to be 2" diameter on the ground-glass is that 2:1 or 1:2 ?

 

[Dan Fromm]

I'm jumping in with what is likely a very basic question. Let's say I'm photographing a Quarter. They are just shy of 1" diameter (24.26mm I think) If I wanted the quarter to be 2" diameter on the ground-glass is that 2:1 or 1:2 ?

image/object is 50.8/24.26. So 2:1.

 

[Vaughn]

Years ago I bought a Wollensak Micro Raptar, 115mm, f12.5. Tiny little barrel lens that supposively covers 8x10. I'll use it one of these days...I'd have to whip up a lensboard and a good reason to do it.

Otherwise, there are many process lenses in barrels to play with.

 

[Jim Jones]

There are also countless small format and movie camera lenses that can be mounted to a thin metal plate via the filter threads, and the plate mounted to a lens board. The thin metal plate might be eliminated by epoxying the filter (perhaps with the glass removed) directly to a lens board. One problem with doing this for many view cameras is the front of the camera blocking appropriate light from the subject. A reflector around the lens might help with this.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Years ago I bought a Wollensak Micro Raptar, 115mm, f12.5. Tiny little barrel lens that supposively covers 8x10. I'll use it one of these days...I'd have to whip up a lensboard and a good reason to do it.

Otherwise, there are many process lenses in barrels to play with.

Vaughn, the high magnification photography rule "the higher the desired magnification, the shorter the focal length" reflects the need to keep extension manageable.

There are relatively few process lenses shorter than 150 mm. I don't know the range of focal lengths at which your 115/12.5 MicroRaptar works best, but at 10:1 it will want a film-to-lens distance of around 1265 mm. That's a lot.

FWIW, the highest magnification I tested my 50/4.5 MicroRaptar at was 12:1. 650 mm film-to-lens. It was best at 12:1. Might have been better at higher magnification but ...

 

[Dan Fromm]

There are also countless small format and movie camera lenses that can be mounted to a thin metal plate via the filter threads, and the plate mounted to a lens board. The thin metal plate might be eliminated by epoxying the filter (perhaps with the glass removed) directly to a lens board. One problem with doing this for many view cameras is the front of the camera blocking appropriate light from the subject. A reflector around the lens might help with this.

Funny you should mention cine lenses. When I was trying out lenses for high magnification work, the 25/2.8 Cine Ektar II, reversed and shot wide open was a standout from 10:1 to 26:1.

 

[DREW WILEY]

alkman - the 240 GC easily covers 8X10 film at infinity with a reasonable amount of wiggle room. The official spec sheet gives a very conservative image circle size based on much more stringent graphics repro standards than general photo expectations, and only at f/22. The spec sheet also give the image circle at 1:1. I have plenty of experience with this lens with 8x10 format, as well as with Fuji's equivalent, the 250A.

Seemingly longer than necessary lenses have real advantages, like greater working distance. It can be really tricky futzing around with things in the front of the camera in a cramped space; same goes for lighting issues. Longer bellows extensions, especially in studios, are a non-issue with serious monorail camera systems, which also generally also have full rear standard control, including fine focus ability.

 

[jimgalli]

You haven't explained your vision. Some of us like to work close and explore soft focus with 8X10. To others purposely soft glowing images are vomit. 2 lenses here, both 12" focus, one is a simple achromatic meniscus doublet and the other is a Tessar design with purpose built defocus at the front group.

 

[nicointheclouds]

I will be going with a 250mm lens most probably, something around there. Could any one kindly direct me in the direction of lenses that are more on the softer side? Fujinon lens maybe?

 

[koraks]

more on the softer side

Something badly scratched on the front element perhaps?
Apart from actual soft focus lenses and very crude, simple optics, pretty much everything made for large format over the past century or so is pretty sharp pretty much all of the time. Opening up the aperture helps of course.

Fujinon lens maybe?

I don't think they're particularly soft, really.


This is large format. Lens imperfections esp. w.r.t. sharpness drop away *fast* against the sheer surface area you're working on.

 

[nicointheclouds]

Something badly scratched on the front element perhaps?
Apart from actual soft focus lenses and very crude, simple optics, pretty much everything made for large format over the past century or so is pretty sharp pretty much all of the time. Opening up the aperture helps of course.



I don't think they're particularly soft, really.


This is large format. Lens imperfections esp. w.r.t. sharpness drop away *fast* against the sheer surface area you're working on.

roger that koraks, thank you for the input

 

[Ian C]

Fujinon 5.6/250 SF

Regarding post #42: The Fujinon 5.6/250 SF (Soft Focus) might be the lens you were asking about.

The Fujinon 5.6/250 SF is a modified Cooke triplet that’s quite soft wide open. These are mounted in a Copal 3S shutter. It’s softness is variable from f/5.6 and is fully sharp by about f/11 or so. Of course, altering the aperture also varies the depth of field. It’s most used for soft focus portraits and misty-renditions of landscapes and so forth on the 4” x 5” and 5” x 7” formats.

It has a 300 mm infinity-focus image circle and 58º coverage angle. It will cover the 314 mm diameter diagonal of an 8” x 10” holder beginning at magnification m = 0.133X (subject distance of 19 meters and closer).

The Fujinon SF lenses are originally supplied with two modifying discs—Fuji called then “grids”—that attach to the rear of the front cell. The front cell is easily unscrewed from the barrel for grid changes. The lens is useable with either of the two grids, or without a grid attached, depending on the effect you want.

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00910/00910.pdf


The following was transcribed from a Fuji SF lens data sheet:

How to use Fujinon SF lenses

“ The spherical aberration of these lenses has been retained to enable them to produce the desired effects. Thorough acquaintance with the effects they will produce is therefore necessary in order to make the most of what they can offer because the picture will turn out differently depending on how they are focused or defocused as well as on the aperture used and on whether or not the picture is taken with the grid on or off and the type of grid used.

Focusing

The intended effects may not be possible if the lens is first focused with the aperture fully open then afterwards closed down to take the picture. The correct focusing procedure is outlined below.

1. Focusing the lens with the aperture set for exposure. With soft focus lenses the case is not the same as other type of lenses in terms of focusing. It is advisable to adjust lens while watching the soft effect it will produce.

2. Focusing the lens with the aperture closed down. The aperture is set for exposure then closed down by 1 or 2 stops for focusing the lens on a vital point of the picture, e.g. on the catchlight in the case of portraits. The aperture is then reset for making the exposure.

How to use grid

The grid enables the Fujinon SF Lenses to yield maximum soft effect picture

1. To mount a grid on the lens

2. Normally, the standard soft effect is produced at F9 using the Yellow grid or F10 using the Red grid

3. The grid requires the use of aperture differing from those for normal aperture.”

 

[nicointheclouds]

Fujinon 5.6/250 SF

Regarding post #42: The Fujinon 5.6/250 SF (Soft Focus) might be the lens you were asking about.

The Fujinon 5.6/250 SF is a modified Cooke triplet that’s quite soft wide open. These are mounted in a Copal 3S shutter. It’s softness is variable from f/5.6 and is fully sharp by about f/11 or so. Of course, altering the aperture also varies the depth of field. It’s most used for soft focus portraits and misty-renditions of landscapes and so forth on the 4” x 5” and 5” x 7” formats.

It has a 300 mm infinity-focus image circle and 58º coverage angle. It will cover the 314 mm diameter diagonal of an 8” x 10” holder beginning at magnification m = 0.133X (subject distance of 19 meters and closer).

The Fujinon SF lenses are originally supplied with two modifying discs—Fuji called then “grids”—that attach to the rear of the front cell. The front cell is easily unscrewed from the barrel for grid changes. The lens is useable with either of the two grids, or without a grid attached, depending on the effect you want.

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00910/00910.pdf


The following was transcribed from a Fuji SF lens data sheet:

How to use Fujinon SF lenses

“ The spherical aberration of these lenses has been retained to enable them to produce the desired effects. Thorough acquaintance with the effects they will produce is therefore necessary in order to make the most of what they can offer because the picture will turn out differently depending on how they are focused or defocused as well as on the aperture used and on whether or not the picture is taken with the grid on or off and the type of grid used.

Focusing

The intended effects may not be possible if the lens is first focused with the aperture fully open then afterwards closed down to take the picture. The correct focusing procedure is outlined below.

1. Focusing the lens with the aperture set for exposure. With soft focus lenses the case is not the same as other type of lenses in terms of focusing. It is advisable to adjust lens while watching the soft effect it will produce.

2. Focusing the lens with the aperture closed down. The aperture is set for exposure then closed down by 1 or 2 stops for focusing the lens on a vital point of the picture, e.g. on the catchlight in the case of portraits. The aperture is then reset for making the exposure.

How to use grid

The grid enables the Fujinon SF Lenses to yield maximum soft effect picture

1. To mount a grid on the lens

2. Normally, the standard soft effect is produced at F9 using the Yellow grid or F10 using the Red grid

3. The grid requires the use of aperture differing from those for normal aperture.”

Thank you for the info,

Replying to this:
It’s most used for soft focus portraits and misty-renditions of landscapes and so forth on the 4” x 5” and 5” x 7” formats.

This lens is exactly what i want but what would be the equivalent of what people use for 8x10 format? as you mentioned its used more on 4x5 & 5x7 formats

im also thinking about a

Kodak 14" Commercial Ektar​

But can i get one of them with a Linhof lens board?

 

[Ian C]

Check the comments in post #45. The Fuji 250 SF is usable on the 8” x 10” format at focusing distances of 19 meters and closer. Recall that you stated you want a lens of about 250 mm.

Fuji also made a 5.6/420 SF lens. This is a barrel lens with built-in iris unit. It can be mounted in a Shanel 5A shutter via one of the custom adapters available from Photrio member B.S. Kumar of Nara, Japan.

Its produces an image circle of 500 mm (some versions of the data sheet claim 480 mm). This provides 11” x 14” format coverage. Although the lens is rather large and heavy, mine is mounted on a Linhof Technika lens board (hole nearly centered type) using the adapter from Kumar.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/members/b-s-kumar.20965/

 

[BrianShaw]

A 12-inch or 14-inch Kodak Commercial Ektar would be a wonderful general-purpose lens for an 8x10 camera. It’s actually a rather sharp lens with legendary performance. Huge and heavy…

 

[blee1996]

I have the Fujinon W 250mm f/6.7, which is known to have excellent coverage for its focal length while still quite affordable. It is rather sharp though.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The Fuji 250/6.7 W will comfortably cover 8x10 at infinity. The subsequent 250/5.6 will not. The Fuji 250/9 A will also cover 8x10 at infinity. These are all relatively lightweight and portable, the 250 A especially so. In an earlier post, I already noted that the "A" version is an exceptionally good performer at close range. But these are all VERY sharp lenses, in distinction from the soft focus "SF" Fuji variety.