Choosing a Kodak Fixer

[turnorb]

Hello. I am relatively new to film processing, and I am in the process of choosing chemicals for developing film. I need help choosing one of Kodak's fixers. Kodak's website doesn't really seem to be any help because they just list the basic information about their three fixers, Rapid Fixer, Kodak Fixer, and Kodafix 200. Does anyone know the differences between these fixers? Does anyone know any details such as how long they last, how they are meant to be mixed/used... etc. Anything would be helpful. Also could someone explain hardening and non-hardening fixers? I get the basic idea that they keep the film from scratching as easily, but I would like to know all of the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thanks! Also, if anyone includes recommendations of products, please explain why. I like to know why so I can make my own judgements.

 

[Tom1956]

Kodak Fixer Disadvantages--needs full 10 minutes on T-max. Kodak Fixer: good stuff.

 

[MattKing]

Hello. I am relatively new to film processing, and I am in the process of choosing chemicals for developing film. I need help choosing one of Kodak's fixers. Kodak's website doesn't really seem to be any help because they just list the basic information about their three fixers, Rapid Fixer, Kodak Fixer, and Kodafix 200. Does anyone know the differences between these fixers? Does anyone know any details such as how long they last, how they are meant to be mixed/used... etc. Anything would be helpful. Also could someone explain hardening and non-hardening fixers? I get the basic idea that they keep the film from scratching as easily, but I would like to know all of the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thanks! Also, if anyone includes recommendations of products, please explain why. I like to know why so I can make my own judgements.

Welcome to APUG.

Some of the most entertaining threads over the years have been about fixers .

Hardening helps prevent physical damage to films and papers. Most modern, first-line materials (both film and paper) are very resistant to physical damage. Some of the more "exotic" manufacturers (like the now defunct Efke) made materials that sometimes needed help.

Hardening has some downsides - in particular, with prints, it makes them difficult to tone. For film, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference.

Hardening is useful with some print toning, but only after the development, initial fix and then toning steps are complete.

I prefer fixer that lets me choose to either include hardener, or omit it. The Kodak Rapid Fixer is packaged that way - two solutions, and you can elect to leave the hardener (Part B) out of the mix. I then use that Part B to harden toned prints later.

The other two versions of Kodak fixer are slightly confusing, because they are labelled and marketed under slightly different names in different markets.

Most likely, the Kodak Fixer is the powdered type. That means it is not a rapid fixer, and will take more time to fix your film and paper. It is also a hardening fixer. It does, however have the clear advantage of being a powder, which makes it easier to ship.

I would guess that the fixer you refer to as Kodafix 200 is the same as fixer that I know as liquid Kodafix. It appears to be essentially pre-mixed Kodak Rapid fix, with hardener included. Given its package size, it is probably well suited to small darkroom users.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: the Kodak T-Max films require a strong fixer. Some people have difficulty using the powdered Kodak fixer for those films.

 

[Película]

Two of those Kodak formulas are liquid and the other is powder. Personally I recommend liquid for ease of use. One (Kodak Rapid Fix) has the hardener as separate (two solutions) and the two others have it already added (Kodafix 200 and the powder Kodak Fixer.) The general consensus seems to be that modern films are 'pre-hardened' and that there's really no need for a hardener (e.g., see this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)) fwiw, I use a liquid non-hardening fixer for all my Kodak and Ilford B+W films.

Kodak's website does have detailed info on their branded chemicals but you have to kind of dig down deep to get to them. Here's a link to a .pdf file on how to use their fixers and what the shelf life is, etc.: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e103cf/e103cf.pdf

You might also consider other brands such as Ilford or Clayton, etc.. It's all pretty much the same chemicals. And you can check the potency of your fixer by the time it takes for a snip of film to clear (just cut a piece of leader and watch it clear in the fixer.) Or you can buy a small bottle of Edwal Hypo Check. But I feel that the film snip test is really more reliable in the long run (the Edwal solution tests for silver saturation and not necessarily the effectiveness of the fix itself.)

EDIT: never mind, Matt King (post above) beat me to it....

 

[turnorb]

the Kodak T-Max films require a strong fixer. Some people have difficulty using the powdered Kodak fixer for those films.

How would I know if the fixer is doing its job? Thanks, too.

 

[turnorb]

With the liquid fixers, should I mix up the working solution every time I develop a batch of film, or should I just make a large amount of working solution and keep in in a jug? Also, Kodak says to use a different mixing ratio on the Kodafix for paper and film. For Rapidfix and Kodak Fixer, I suppose they have the same ratios for both, but should I still mix different batches for paper and film? Thanks!

 

[Tom1956]

That's why I don't like liquid rapid fixers. Kodak Fixer is as good as fixer needs to be, unless you are a newspaper man needing to get the picture to the press ASAP. Oh, yeah--they use digital for that, I hear.

 

[Roger Cole]

I use film strength rapid fix without hardener for prints. You can mix up a batch and keep it a while because enough fixer to cover a roll of film will fix far more than one roll. Capacity for print fix is more complicated especially if you don't use two fixing baths. Two bath fixing greatly extends the capacity of print fix and is better for your prints too (unless you discard a single fix after very little use) but is certainly more trouble.

Finally I am pretty sure Kodafix is not a rapid fixer. I used to use it and fix times were more like those for powdered Kodak fixer.

For film, test by putting a bit of film leader in the fixer and timing how long it takes to clear. Fix at least twice that long, three times to remove the dye and completely fix t-grain films.

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[MattKing]

Roger:

I think the liquid Kodafix has changed. This may explain the Kodafix 200 name change. It is now labelled as a "fast acting" hardening fixer, and the MSDS information I can find for it (under "Kodafix solution - dated 2012) indicates that it is 30 - 35% Ammonium thiosulphate.

And to the OP, I combine clip tests and the manufacturer's capacity recommendations to determine how much I can re-use fixer.

For film, I mix 1.25 litres at film strength and re-use it until the earlier of reaching no more than 2/3 the Kodak recommend capacity or until the clip test clearing time has doubled.

Here is the chart with the capacity numbers (and a whole lot more): http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e103cf/e103cf.pdf

On the chart, for Rapid Fixer or Kodafix 200, Kodak recommends that 1 litre can fix 32 films (8x10 sheet, 135-36 or 120).

 

[Terry Christian]

A good rule of thumb is to fix most films for 5-7 minutes. If you open the tank and you see the film has a milky appearance, then it needs more fixing, or your fixer is shot. T-grained films like Kodak TMAX may require extra fixing and washing time to get rid of their extra pink dye.

 

[Pat Erson]

Roger:

On the chart, for Rapid Fixer or Kodafix 200, Kodak recommends that 1 litre can fix 32 films (8x10 sheet, 135-36 or 120).

I got far less than that the last time I used Kodak fixer. :confused: I started encoutering problems after 32 135 films... out of a 5 liter jug of fixer diluted 1+4. Films had big brown stains all over them.

Now I'm a Tetenal or Ilford user and I haven't had a single problem since I switched.

 

[removed account4]

How would I know if the fixer is doing its job? Thanks, too.

take the film leader for your 35mm film, the piece you cut off before you put it on the reel is fine ...
and after your film is tucked away light safe in the developing tank
you turn the lights on ... take the film leader you cut off and put it in your film fixer FRESH FIXER ..
you watch the clock and see how long ( with agitation! ) it takes to turn your film clipping into CLEAR FILM BASE
if it was 1 minute, you fully fix your film for 2 mins ... if it was 30 seconds you fully fix your film for 1 min
2 minutes ... thenfix for 4 mins ...

lets say your clear time was 1 minute ...
when you notice it takes 2x that ( so a full 2 minutes ! ) to clear the same film to clear base
your fixer is spent, .. dispose of it safely and mix new fixer.


good luck !
john

 

[pentaxuser]

. Films had big brown stains all over them.

Now I'm a Tetenal or Ilford user and I haven't had a single problem since I switched.

I wonder what is in Kodak fixer that produces brown stains? I have no knowledge of what Kodak fixer contains but I'd be surprised if it differs very much, if at all from Ilford and Tetenal.

If your problem with Kodak fixer hasn't been replicated with Ilford or Tetenal then great but it might be worth asking if the brown stains might have been due to another causes. Once upon a time I'd imagine that very few if any U.S. darkroom practitioners used anything other than Kodak when its monopoly position might have made it possible to make a product with "problems" and get away with it but nowadays I'd have thought that Kodak has to be very focused given the competition.

I can't speak for Tetenal or Kodak but Ilford does not make its own chemicals. It buys them in. I suppose it might set higher requirements for its chemical contractors but again I'd be surprised if it does.


pentaxuser

 

[Pat Erson]

I think it was a capacity problem. First batch of films was ok (16 135 films) but the 2nd one came out ugly, with brown stains that fortunately disappeared as soon as I refixed the films (with another brand).

At the time (2004) I was already pretty skilled so "processing procedures, not following directions" is out of the question. It was the 1st and last time I bought some Kodak fixer : I was a Ilford man from Day One (1997) and I was lured into trying Kodak cos it was cheaper. Silly me...

 

[MattKing]

I think it was a capacity problem. First batch of films was ok (16 135 films) but the 2nd one came out ugly, with brown stains that fortunately disappeared as soon as I refixed the films (with another brand).

At the time (2004) I was already pretty skilled so "processing procedures, not following directions" is out of the question. It was the 1st and last time I bought some Kodak fixer : I was a Ilford man from Day One (1997) and I was lured into trying Kodak cos it was cheaper. Silly me...

Sounds more like a contamination problem. Probably a single bad bottle - maybe improperly stored or damaged in transit before you got it?

I've used Kodak fixers off and on for over 40 years, and I've never had a single problem.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have regular Kodak Fixer in powder. Using it for all kind of films (TMAX included) and RC paper.
It is cheap, easy to prepare and doesn't smell bad.

 

[Roger Cole]

This would be a new usage of the term "easy to prepare" with which I was previously unfamiliar.

 

[pstake]

Oh Boy, see what you started, OP? I like formulary's TF5. Lasts forever, nearly ph neutral but still a rapid fixer. Fixes fb prints in a minute, film in 10 minutes.


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[Chris Lange]

I've been using kodak C-41 fix for the past 2 and a half years for all my processing. I mix a liter of concentrate into a gallon of solution, and use a 2 bath routine for FB paper, 45 seconds per bath with constant agitation.

 

[RPC]

I too use Kodak C-41 Fixer/Replenisher. It works great for C-41 film, b&w film, b&w paper, and color paper if you use a separate bleach. Very versatile and about the lowest cost fixer there is.

 

[kiku]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone would bad mouth Kodak products. Not too long, just one day. Howard Tanger

 

[fotch]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone would bad mouth Kodak products. Not too long, just one day. Howard Tanger

Sad bug true

 

[RalphLambrecht]

With the liquid fixers, should I mix up the working solution every time I develop a batch of film, or should I just make a large amount of working solution and keep in in a jug? Also, Kodak says to use a different mixing ratio on the Kodafix for paper and film. For Rapidfix and Kodak Fixer, I suppose they have the same ratios for both, but should I still mix different batches for paper and film? Thanks!

Yes, prepare different fixer working solutions for film and paper and don't mix them.Also consider two-bath fixingto get the best results.

 

[Roger Cole]

Roger:

I think the liquid Kodafix has changed. This may explain the Kodafix 200 name change. It is now labelled as a "fast acting" hardening fixer, and the MSDS information I can find for it (under "Kodafix solution - dated 2012) indicates that it is 30 - 35% Ammonium thiosulphate.

And to the OP, I combine clip tests and the manufacturer's capacity recommendations to determine how much I can re-use fixer.

For film, I mix 1.25 litres at film strength and re-use it until the earlier of reaching no more than 2/3 the Kodak recommend capacity or until the clip test clearing time has doubled.

Here is the chart with the capacity numbers (and a whole lot more): http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e103cf/e103cf.pdf

On the chart, for Rapid Fixer or Kodafix 200, Kodak recommends that 1 litre can fix 32 films (8x10 sheet, 135-36 or 120).

Interesting, it probably has changed. Unless it's significantly less expensive, though, I see no advantage to essentially having the hardener already mixed in. Well, maybe for shipping or handling since the hardener is basically fairly concentrated sulfuric acid.

 

[GarageBoy]

Can I use the ilford washing method with Kodafix since it is a hardening fixer?