Chicago Albumen Works Centennial Paper

sdivot · Apr 26, 2017

I have an almost full 50 sheet box of 8x10 Chicago Albumen Works Centennial Printing Out Paper. Although I can't find an expiration date, I'm certain it's around 10 years old. It's been in the refrigerator the whole time.
Do you all think it's still good? What it's worth? I won't use it, so I was thinking of selling it.
Any advice/opinion/experience out there?
Thanks for any replies,
Steve

nmp · Apr 26, 2017

Hi, Steve:

Well, I have a box about that old too and it is still good. It was refrigerated too. I have been printing on it with digital negatives last few months.

:Niranjan.

P.S. If you want to part with it, we can talk.

sdivot · Apr 26, 2017

Niranjan,
Thanks for the reply! I'm really not sure what I'm going to do with it (if I do let it go, you'll be the first person I contact). Knowing it may be good, I may try to make some prints with it. May I ask: how are you printing your digital negs? I have a Nu-arc unit, and was wondering roughly the exposure times for this paper. Also, I know people usually use gold chloride to tone. I read you can use selenium as well. Selenium is much cheaper, so I thought I'd try it with my first experiments.
Thanks again for the info,
Steve
www.scdowellphoto.com

nmp · Apr 26, 2017

Steve:

I built my own little BLB bulb unit with which I am getting 20-25 min exposures. I do not use gold chloride but use Selenium (KRST) toner. I prefer the chocolate brown color of the latter than a more yellowish tone obtained typically with gold (of course the price too.) At some point when I get my scanner running again I will share some pictures.

Check this if you do not have it already for instructions on recommended process for the paper.

http://www.albumenworks.com/links/DW_Data_Sht_2006-06.pdf

Regarding digital negs, I am using Pictorico on HP B1980 (both of the same vintage as the POP!)

I could tell you more, but then you would want to keep the paper...just kidding.

:Niranjan

Arklatexian · Apr 27, 2017

sdivot said:
I have an almost full 50 sheet box of 8x10 Chicago Albumen Works Centennial Printing Out Paper. Although I can't find an expiration date, I'm certain it's around 10 years old. It's been in the refrigerator the whole time.
Do you all think it's still good? What it's worth? I won't use it, so I was thinking of selling it.
Any advice/opinion/experience out there?
Thanks for any replies,
Steve

If it is true P.O.P. paper, you can tell if it is still good by taking a piece of the paper and a B&W negative, sandwich them together, emulsion to emulsion, take the sandwich out into the bright sunlight, expose the sandwich to the sun. It should begin to expose on its own if it is still good. Do let the paper warm up a bit.....Regards!

nmp · May 29, 2017

nmp said:
At some point when I get my scanner running again I will share some pictures.
:Niranjan

Well, I just put up 7 scanned images of my Centennial POP prints on my website:

http://niranjanpatel.zenfolio.com/p790410975

Tell me what you think....

:Niranjan.

Peter Schrager · May 29, 2017

nmp said:
Well, I just put up 7 scanned images of my Centennial POP prints on my website:

http://niranjanpatel.zenfolio.com/p790410975

Tell me what you think....

:Niranjan.

They look very nice..gold toned??

Peter Schrager · May 29, 2017

It's a shame Ilford chose to kill this product
Totally underrated material
And yes I know the back story about the plant and difficulties coating..

nmp · May 30, 2017

Peter Schrager said:
They look very nice..gold toned??

Thanks, Peter. No, they are post-fix selenium toned.

Didn't know Ilford was the original manufacturer of these. From what I understood, Kentmere was the last one to supply through Chicago Albumen. So what is the back story?

removed account4 · May 30, 2017

Peter Schrager said:
It's a shame Ilford chose to kill this product
Totally underrated material
And yes I know the back story about the plant and difficulties coating..

yep
but you can make your own if youwant
the GEM gave classes in colodioPOP christotype? ( i believe victor at alternative photo used to make and sell it )
and you can also go to the lightfarm and see fantastic things denise ross is doing with her own POP emulsion
while i can understand mass quantities not beingmade anymore ( like paladio pt/pd paper being discontinued in the 80s/90s )
anything can be done on a small scale from making film and paper ( SG ) to POP, and other sun based " stuff" ..

go team !

Peter Schrager · May 30, 2017

I took the class on pop colloidion...great process but different from the centennial paper
Ive had vary results withe first..worked great in Rochester bit lousy when I lived in Florida
Could have something to do with the water

Peter Schrager · May 30, 2017

Backstory was the kentmere plant was s mess and they had to shit down just to coat and reopen..theres a thread here somewhere that explains in detail

JensH · May 30, 2017

Hi,

it is the paper I love most of all I ever used.
Here is why: https://www.flickr.com/photos/136145166@N02/albums/72157676072065411
Keep it and have fun using it.
Gold toning (Tetenal Goldtoner or Moersch) works great, but I newer liked selenium toning this paper.
Even 1:40 diluted Kodak RST gave very bad results...
To those who had more success: When do you use it? Combined with gold toning? I tried it after fixing and washing.

Best wishes
Jens

nmp · May 30, 2017

Jens Hallfeldt said:
To those who had more success: When do you use it? Combined with gold toning? I tried it after fixing and washing.

Hi, Jens:

I tone only with KRST, no gold, after fixing, hypo-clear and thorough washing. With selenium the trick is not to have any unexposed silver retained before toning as it will stain the print. Unlike gold, selenium will react with both elemental silver as well as the chloride and the nitrate. So the latter have to be removed completely before toning.

:Niranjan.

JensH · May 30, 2017

nmp said:
Hi, Jens:

I tone only with KRST, no gold, after fixing, hypo-clear and thorough washing. With selenium the trick is not to have any unexposed silver retained before toning as it will stain the print. Unlike gold, selenium will react with both elemental silver as well as the chloride and the nitrate. So the latter have to be removed completely before toning.

:Niranjan.

Hi Niranjan,

thank You for the answer, so the only difference is, that I used already gold toned prints.
I'll give it a try with Se toner only... your pictures look great!

Best wishes
Jens

Peter Schrager · May 30, 2017

I still have a full box!!

nmp · May 31, 2017

Jens Hallfeldt said:
Hi Niranjan,

thank You for the answer, so the only difference is, that I used already gold toned prints.
I'll give it a try with Se toner only... your pictures look great!

Best wishes
Jens

Thanks. I don't know what happens when you double tone with gold followed by selenium. I did not want to deal with gold if selenium was good enough - kind of an expensive habit to get in to. I found that to control the toning process, you do have to use very dilute solution. Otherwise, after a certain time bleaching effect becomes dominant and image can start losing density.

On your flickr page (interesting microscopy work, by the way) you mention "APP Collodio POP" - is this a commercial POP?

:Niranjan.

JensH · May 31, 2017

nmp said:
.... I found that to control the toning process, you do have to use very dilute solution. Otherwise, after a certain time bleaching effect becomes dominant and image can start losing density.

On your flickr page (interesting microscopy work, by the way) you mention "APP Collodio POP" - is this a commercial POP?

:Niranjan.

Hi Niranjan,

yes, "APP Collodio POP" is or was a commercial POP. A great paper with similar look to the centennial paper. I got it from Dead Link Removed (no longer existing), seems not to be available now.

With Se I have exacly that bleaching effect. How much do you dilute the KRST for POP?

Yours
Jens

nmp · May 31, 2017

Jens Hallfeldt said:
With Se I have exacly that bleaching effect. How much do you dilute the KRST for POP?

KRST 1 (gm) :60 (ml) distilled water, toning time of 7 mins. Use fresh for each print (probably an overkill.)

JensH · May 31, 2017

nmp said:
KRST 1 (gm) :60 (ml) distilled water, toning time of 7 mins. Use fresh for each print (probably an overkill.)

Hi Niranjan,

thank You, that is indeed a lower concentration.

Best wishes
Jens

mshchem · Jan 8, 2019

I just bought an unopened box off of Ebay, do you think it's any good. I'm going to have to get busy with my Dear Deardorff. I have a contact printer with Argon lamps, significant UV Azo will take a 5 second or less exposure . I just hope it's good.

nmp · Jan 8, 2019

mshchem said:
I just bought an unopened box off of Ebay, do you think it's any good. I'm going to have to get busy with my Dear Deardorff. I have a contact printer with Argon lamps, significant UV Azo will take a 5 second or less exposure . I just hope it's good.

Lucky you!

Please share your results.

mshchem · Jan 8, 2019

nmp said:
Lucky you!

Please share your results.

Do you think it will still be good? The box is in perfect condition, not sure how it was stored. I'm going to need to get some help to make a couple of digital negatives of the appropriate density. I have a 8x10 Deardorff V8, so I can make negatives. Going to need to get out and busy. I will try some small prints 1st . I have plenty of gold toner ingredients and bulk plain hypo. I have wanted to try a properly coated P.O.P. for ever. I played with Kodak Studio Proof 40 years ago, I didn't know what I was doing.

Peter Schrager · Jan 8, 2019

mshchem said:
I just bought an unopened box off of Ebay, do you think it's any good. I'm going to have to get busy with my Dear Deardorff. I have a contact printer with Argon lamps, significant UV Azo will take a 5 second or less exposure . I just hope it's good.

Its definitely not good...you are free to send it to me

mshchem · Jan 8, 2019

Peter Schrager said:
Its definitely not good...you are free to send it to me

To quote Montgomery Burns "Excellent!"

Chicago Albumen Works Centennial Paper

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