Chemistry required per 120 Hewes Stainless Steel Reels in Jobo 2500 Series Tanks ?

[Vania]

Hi everyone,

While I am stuck in an endless quest to solve some impossible development issues, I decided to try constant agitation and invested in some Jobo 2500 series tanks and roller base which I would like to use with my Hewes reels. The ones made for Jobo/Perterson tanks.

The problem is I have no idea nor can't seem to find if the recommended amount of chemistry on the tank should be the same with the Hewes reels since they have a smaller diameter than the proprietary ones.

Does anyone have direct experience with this equipment and can recommend the appropriate amount of chemistry I should use ?

Many thanks!

Vania

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hi everyone,

While I am stuck in an endless quest to solve some impossible development issues, I decided to try constant agitation and invested in some Jobo 2500 series tanks and roller base which I would like to use with my Hewes reels. The ones made for Jobo/Perterson tanks.

The problem is I have no idea nor can't seem to find if the recommended amount of chemistry on the tank should be the same with the Hewes reels since they have a smaller diameter than the proprietary ones.

Does anyone have direct experience with this equipment and can recommend the appropriate amount of chemistry I should use ?

Many thanks!

Vania

Jobo tanks have labels on them with the minimum chemical volumes. Start there and adjust as necessary.

 

[Vania]

Jobo tanks have labels on them with the minimum chemical volumes. Start there and adjust as necessary.

Thanks but the meaning of my post was that since the diameter of the Hewes reels is smaller that the Jobo's one I could off course waste film testing but maybe someone has this equipment and can spare me the waste...

 

[MattKing]

The important factor is whether, when the tank is on its side, there is enough fluid to reach the inner-most layer of film on the reel.
It isn't the outside diameter of the reel that matters, it is the inside diameter of the inner-most turn of the reels that have film in them that matters.
If that inner-most diameter is the same for the Hewes and the JOBO reels, than the volume will be the same.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks but the meaning of my post was that since the diameter of the Hewes reels is smaller that the Jobo's one I could off course waste film testing but maybe someone has this equipment and can spare me the waste...

If that is your concern fill a graduated container with water and add a reel to measure the displacement. Remove that reel and since that reel will remove water, refill the graduated container and test the other reel. Basically it sounds like you are trying too hard to squeeze out every drop of the chemicals and that is not a wise thing to do.

 

[Vania]

Interesting, Since the inner diameter of the reel is the same in both to accommodate the center column the inner most layer of film should be the same.
I'll try with just a tad more then. Thanks Matt for putting light into my brain!

 

[MattKing]

That won't work Sirius. Vania is trying to determine how much fluid to use to ensure the appropriate coverage for differently sized reels turned on their sides.

 

[Sirius Glass]

That won't work Sirius. Vania is trying to determine how much fluid to use to ensure the appropriate coverage for differently sized reels turned on their sides.

It would show the difference in displacement which is probably so small that the whole effort is a waste of time and effort.

 

[Vania]

If that is your concern fill a graduated container with water and add a reel to measure the displacement. Remove that reel and since that reel will remove water, refill the graduated container and test the other reel. Basically it sounds like you are trying too hard to squeeze out every drop of the chemicals and that is not a wise thing to do.

No not at all. Quite the opposite I just don't want to put too little chemistry by following recommendations. Unfortunately I only have the hewes reels for roll film.

 

[MattKing]

It would show the difference in displacement which is probably so small that the whole effort is a waste of time and effort.

It would show displacement issues, but wouldn't show any difference in where the inner layer of film is located vis-a-vis the core.
It is that location of film that determines whether there is enough fluid in the tank to ensure proper development when the tank is on its side.
If that inner layer of film is placed in the same location with both types of reels, than the JOBO volumes will work fine. If there is a difference, then an adjustment may be necessary. In particular, if the inner layer is closer to the core with the Hewes reels, there would be a need for more fluid.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It would show displacement issues, but wouldn't show any difference in where the inner layer of film is located vis-a-vis the core.
It is that location of film that determines whether there is enough fluid in the tank to ensure proper development when the tank is on its side.
If that inner layer of film is placed in the same location with both types of reels, than the JOBO volumes will work fine. If there is a difference, then an adjustment may be necessary. In particular, if the inner layer is closer to the core with the Hewes reels, there would be a need for more fluid.

So to be safe add 10% t0 15% more chemicals. I myself use approximately 500 ml in the Jobo 1500 series tanks. The developer goes back in the original container with the appropriate amount of replenisher. That way the amount of developer available for the film is in excess of what is needed, however it is not wasted.

 

[Vania]

Oh well the film does not stay into the reel anyway the rotation makes it slowly slip of... I don't know why hewes made reels for the jobo system if it does not work... So I have to buy more reels now and I'm not even sure this will solve my streaking issues...

 

[peoplemerge]

I’ve used Hewes 35mm metal reels for the 1500 series (they are incredibly expensive) and they worked perfectly with no change in volume. Jobo volume numbers are conservative enough to avoid coverage issues if you measure 50ml short in a tank with 2 reels.

 

[MattKing]

Oh well the film does not stay into the reel anyway the rotation makes it slowly slip of... I don't know why hewes made reels for the jobo system if it does not work... So I have to buy more reels now and I'm not even sure this will solve my streaking issues...

You need to either use the clip to hold the film at one end, or crimp the end as part of the loading process, before rolling the rest of the film into the reel.
Just to make sure, you are loading the reels from the inside core out, are you not?

 

[Vania]

I’ve used Hewes 35mm metal reels for the 1500 series (they are incredibly expensive) and they worked perfectly with no change in volume. Jobo volume numbers are conservative enough to avoid coverage issues if you measure 50ml short.

Thanks! Did you use them in rotary process or inversion ?

 

[MattKing]

Also, when I am doing 120 with rotary processing, and Paterson/AP plastic reels, I do see some film movement in the reel. It may help to pre-rinse before development, but I'm afraid film in developer is slippery. I've basically moved to using inversion agitation after the first 30 seconds of continuous rotary agitation for just this reason.
Of course, I use replenished developer, so I don't worry about filling the tank each time.
You will most likely find what I have learned - the film moves in the reels during the development stage, but not during the rest of the development process. I use continuous rotary agitation for everything after development.

 

[Vania]

You need to either use the clip to hold the film at one end, or crimp the end as part of the loading process, before rolling the rest of the film into the reel.
Just to make sure, you are loading the reels from the inside core out, are you not?

I'm used to the hewes reels in inversion tank and I do use the clip when inserting the film although I don't understand what you mean by crimp the end.

When I realised that the film was out of the reel after development I did some simulation with water and what is going on is that at first the beginning of the film is still inside the clip but the rest of the film slowly getting out of the reel. I used those reels in inversion process with a Paterson tank and did not see this happen.

I got a very subjective feeling that those reels are slightly more loose than the standard hewes reels for metal tank and the clip in the center is of a different design.

 

[MattKing]

I got a very subjective feeling that those reels are slightly more loose than the standard hewes reels for metal tank and the clip in the center is of a different design. I'm trying to post a picture of it but I can't I'm told it's too large but it's only 300kb..

Resize it down to a jpeg with 1000 pixels on the long side.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Also, when I am doing 120 with rotary processing, and Paterson/AP plastic reels, I do see some film movement in the reel. It may help to pre-rinse before development, but I'm afraid film in developer is slippery. I've basically moved to using inversion agitation after the first 30 seconds of continuous rotary agitation for just this reason.
Of course, I use replenished developer, so I don't worry about filling the tank each time.
You will most likely find what I have learned - the film moves in the reels during the development stage, but not during the rest of the development process. I use continuous rotary agitation for everything after development.

The Hewes 35m reels have pins to secure the perforations on the edge of the film while the Hewes 120 reels have a clip in the spindle area fo the reels to secure the film.

 

[Vania]

Humm there is this extra clip, maybe it serves a purpose ?

The Hewes 35m reels have pins to secure the perforations on the edge of the film while the Hewes 120 reels have a clip in the spindle area fo the reels to secure the film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Humm there is this extra clip, maybe it serves a purpose ?

View attachment 308273

If that is for 120, the clip would work better if it were rotated 90 degrees.

 

[MattKing]

Do you see Hewes imprinted on the spirals?
Like this:

 

[Sirius Glass]

Do you see Hewes imprinted on the spirals?
Like this:

View attachment 308275

That shows the film clip in the center.

 

[MattKing]

That shows the film clip in the center.

That is from a reel not designed for JOBO tanks - I was referring to the printed words "HEWES (U.K.)

 

[mshchem]

Humm there is this extra clip, maybe it serves a purpose ?

View attachment 308273

First of all the Hewes reels you have are for 1500 series tanks. Hewes makes an even more expensive, larger diameter, reel for the 2500 tanks. The "extra clip" on your reel is so the reel doesn't spin on the center column. This may be a contributing factor of the film coming off. I have a couple these Hewes for Jobo, once I learned how load Jobo plastic reels, I don't use these much anymore.
Use the volumes specified for 220 film, that will insure the film in immersed in the chemistry.