Censorship and judgement on APUG and in the world...

[BrianShaw]

Some of the most minor things said or done "speak volumes". Sure, they don't form a complete personality analysis, but htey are the makings of impressions. Whether right or wrong, they are sometimes lasting impressions. It is all part of being human.

 

[BrianShaw]

As someone said before... lick your wounds and move on. This really isn't something you should let ruin your day. Good luck!

 

[StoneNYC]

Some of the most minor things said or done "speak volumes". Sure, they don't form a complete personality analysis, but htey are the makings of impressions. Whether right or wrong, they are sometimes lasting impressions. It is all part of being human.

With this I agree... thanks for being so wise.

 

[BrianShaw]

With this I agree... thanks for being so wise.

I must be having a "good day"... few ever say things like that to me. Thanks!

 

[sehrgut]

I guess I was hoping the image was strong enough with the title

This is just me, but I feel that, since photography is a visual medium, the photograph isn't communicating effectively if it needs the title, background info paragraph listed in the gallery catalogue, or the little bit of haiku decoupaged over the edge. The moment text becomes necessary, it's a (however-short) essay, illustrated with a photograph.

Not that photographically-illustrated essays are a bad thing, but "the work" at that point is not a photograph, it's a multi-component piece of which the photograph is one part.

 

[removed account4]

hi stone

i was one of the commenters from your image post.
maybe if you posted your title / blurb to put the image and
the way you described it into context this thread will make more sense.

my comment was really about how you posted the image for " shock value "
how it was kind of dizzying because of the double exposure aspect of it
and i wasn't really sure how this image really portrayed the subject as you were
trying to portray it + her. i also commented that it was kind of harsh the way you
described her in a public forum and while you have a model release form
describing someone the way you did wasn't the nicest way to describe her ...

i think the person you have a beef with was sticking up for the young lady ( ladies )
you have chosen to photograph and the way you have chosen to describe + portray them
both in the image post and in the threads/ forum .. because your descriptions + portrayals were harsh ..

 

[BradS]

I guess the problem is....... the thought was put forth that I don't share any empathy with the models I shoot and that I don't care about them or their feelings. Which is not at all true, but that's really the basics of the whole thing.

Stone,
I have mixed feeling about all of this...but I'll just share this one idea because I think it may possibly prove to be the most helpful to you (even if it only turns out to be helpful in the long term):

It is often the case that the criticism that hurts the most is that which we really need to hear the most but are unable to accept. The idea is that way deep down you know there is some truth to the matter but, you really do not want to admit it. You do not want to face that ugly part of you. An example is the alcoholic who refuses to admit that he has a drinking problem and gets angry if anybody else suggests it.

I think it takes a great deal of personal strength and much introspection to come to point where one allows that, maybe, just maybe some part of the criticism is true. Give it some thought and some quiet time. Is there something you that you can change to improve in this area?

I know all too well how difficult this is to hear and to think about...it may be worth it to give it some thought and reflection.




oh...and I would definitely say that cat photos should be strictly prohibited on APUG.

 

[eddie]

Ok, well that I can understand then, I guess I was hoping the image was strong enough with the title, but I guess not, I appreciate your feedback on that, thanks.

When you need a title to impart your message, it usually means the image doesn't stand on it's own.

 

[StoneNYC]

This is just me, but I feel that, since photography is a visual medium, the photograph isn't communicating effectively if it needs the title, background info paragraph listed in the gallery catalogue, or the little bit of haiku decoupaged over the edge. The moment text becomes necessary, it's a (however-short) essay, illustrated with a photograph.

Not that photographically-illustrated essays are a bad thing, but "the work" at that point is not a photograph, it's a multi-component piece of which the photograph is one part.

So in your view, no photograph should have a title, because even "tree in a brook" tells you something about the image from the photographers mind, while without the title, someone might intemperate that as 'brook with a tree in it'. Therefore any image with a small title tag has lost some of it's power?

 

[StoneNYC]

Stone,
I have mixed feeling about all of this...but I'll just share this one idea because I think it may possibly prove to be the most helpful to you (even if it only turns out to be helpful in the long term):

It is often the case that the criticism that hurts the most is that which we really need to hear the most but are unable to accept. The idea is that way deep down you know there is some truth to the matter but, you really do not want to admit it. You do not want to face that ugly part of you. An example is the alcoholic who refuses to admit that he has a drinking problem and gets angry if anybody else suggests it.

I think it takes a great deal of personal strength and much introspection to come to point where one allows that, maybe, just maybe some part of the criticism is true. Give it some thought and some quiet time. Is there something you that you can change to improve in this area?

I know all too well how difficult this is to hear and to think about...it may be worth it to give it some thought and reflection.




oh...and I would definitely say that cat photos should be strictly prohibited on APUG.

This kind of constructive criticism is often welcome. But the statement made was merely that I have no sympathy for my subjects and don't care about them. When I care deeply, but I see the broader view, that this one individual MIGHT someday be harmed by the image, but both they and I chose to participate, that they knew what they were going through (as she has told me she is up 10lbs from this to which I am thankful and I contact her regularly to ask "how's your health") but I hope that when on display, with some thorough explanation, I can also allow others to not be blind by those they know that might be going through similar problems, like my mini-manifesto says "...to shed light on a dark world" I look to share the darker parts of the world with those who might otherwise wish to be blind to it. This might hurt some, but I feel it's important and could be a "greater good" in the end, much like your statement to me.

 

[StoneNYC]

OK the poll's descriptions might appear to be in jest but who said "ansel adams only"? I see that one as a joke more than a serious statement and I can't imagine anyone actually means that... lol

The poll results will determine what I post... so please click accurately to your true belief. If you really think Ansel is all that should be here, that's fine I am just making sure it's understood the poll has a purpose as well.

 

[BradS]

. If you really think Ansel is all that should be here....

Oh G-d help us...NO! What a boring place this would be if the grand landscape were the only permissible subject!

I am being very serious. I appreciate Mr Adams' contribution to the art and craft but, I've had quite enough of his photography.

EDIT: I strongly encourage you to continue to be yourself and post what ever you want to post!

 

[StoneNYC]

Oh G-d help us...NO! What a boring place this would be if the grand landscape were the only permissible subject!

I am being very serious. I appreciate Mr Adams' contribution to the art and craft but, I've had quite enough of his photography.

EDIT: I strongly encourage you to continue to be yourself and post what ever you want to post!

 

[Alan Klein]

Sorry about any insults. I'm hurt more when I post a photo for critique and no one bothers to comment.

 

[StoneNYC]

Sorry about any insults. I'm hurt more when I post a photo for critique and no one bothers to comment.

I can see how that would hurt too.

 

[tkamiya]

I agree about the internet part, I guess I just thought that APUG had a more respectful crowd since we are mostly artists, but I guess perhaps I'm wrong about that too.

WE ARE all artist in our mind, I think. But we also have our opinions and perhaps because we are artists, we have strong opinions about some imagery.

Also.... as much as we don't know about you and you as a person, you don't know about the person who posted harsh comments. You have no idea what hurts some people or evoke an emotional response. I saw your image. I don't see anything really wrong with it. But perhaps someone had a close friend or family member affected by the problem, or maybe himself/herself is.... and thought you were exploiting it. Emotional response may be the reaction. I don't think we can blame that person.

One thing is true.... you evoked strong reaction/emotion. It just wasn't the kind you wanted.

 

[StoneNYC]

WE ARE all artist in our mind, I think. But we also have our opinions and perhaps because we are artists, we have strong opinions about some imagery.

Also.... as much as we don't know about you and you as a person, you don't know about the person who posted harsh comments. You have no idea what hurts some people or evoke an emotional response. I saw your image. I don't see anything really wrong with it. But perhaps someone had a close friend or family member affected by the problem, or maybe himself/herself is.... and thought you were exploiting it. Emotional response may be the reaction. I don't think we can blame that person.

One thing is true.... you evoked strong reaction/emotion. It just wasn't the kind you wanted.

I suppose you are right.

Also thinking more about Ken's point, perhaps I should have approached the poster privately and tried to explain myself further, but then I didn't want to be forcing an interaction if she didn't want one. Why is life so complicated? lol

 

[tkamiya]

PERSONALLY, I think this image would be stronger if it wasn't doubly exposed. It would even be better if the title wasn't an attempt at a humor. But that's me. I would agree to certain degree, with some posters, your sympathetic approach didn't quite come through.

I dunno, poster had his reason for her response. She expressed it. You responded. Both sides spoke. I don't think neither side has to "win" this argument?

 

[EASmithV]

I admire the work you've been doing, and I believe that the purpose of photography is to make a statement with your life and the be a witness to your time. Pretty rocks sticks and trees, while we all shoot them and its always fun to burn some film, can sometimes feel unfufulling, at least to me.

While there are always going to be sheltered people that are shocked when they see for themselves the brutality of the truth, you will be criticized. Many photos of the civil war were, for that very reason, despite the fact that many were staged. And now we live in a society that sees so much play-war, and violence that you'd think they would have lost sensitivity or broadened their horizons, however that is not always the case.

I look forward to your future posts.

 

[StoneNYC]

I admire the work you've been doing, and I believe that the purpose of photography is to make a statement with your life and the be a witness to your time. Pretty rocks sticks and trees, while we all shoot them and its always fun to burn some film, can sometimes feel unfufulling, at least to me.

While there are always going to be sheltered people that are shocked when they see for themselves the brutality of the truth, you will be criticized. Many photos of the civil war were, for that very reason, despite the fact that many were staged. And now we live in a society that sees so much play-war, and violence that you'd think they would have lost sensitivity or broadened their horizons, however that is not always the case.

I look forward to your future posts.

Thanks.

 

[tkamiya]

Either that.... or Stone is really a horrible person.... Kidding of course!

 

[StoneNYC]

PERSONALLY, I think this image would be stronger if it wasn't doubly exposed. It would even be better if the title wasn't an attempt at a humor. But that's me. I would agree to certain degree, with some posters, your sympathetic approach didn't quite come through.

I dunno, poster had his reason for her response. She expressed it. You responded. Both sides spoke. I don't think neither side has to "win" this argument?

Not looking to win, I honestly wanted to get a feel for weather I should post more "taboo" imagery or stick to mountains...the poll is real.

 

[StoneNYC]

Either that.... or Stone is really a horrible person.... Kidding of course!

 

[jovo]

It's obvious that you are an artist, because your sensitivity to criticism is acute. I recall the comment that I think triggered this, and I completely understand why you feel as you do.

I underwent a portfolio review a few years ago, and was very well received by all but one reviewer who right out of the gate said, "This isn't 'art'." Of course he was right in that I hadn't paid homage to the large, color, ironic and bland deadpan aesthetic of that moment, but I was pissed!!! It didn't matter how many supportive and complimentary comments I'd received prior to that one....it was a gutshot!!

Since then I've become much more relaxed about criticism....it's going to be inevitable once your photographs reach beyond your mother's refrigerator. You did not celebrate the model's anorexia (if it was that), you simply documented it and added your comment.

Pull up your big boy pants...suck it up, buttercup...and get the hell on with it!!! Do your best work, learn what you can from criticism, but don't leave the forum....!!!!! There's no crying in photography!!

 

[removed account4]

i think only ansel adams landscapes should be allowed in the gallery
cause in the end that is the only photography that will be remembered.
nude women/ men, grande still lives, photographs showing the course harsh underbelly of the world
the gore of it all, it will all be forgotten and answell adaams landscapes will be the end.
for more than a generation ... (americans at least) when they see a photograph that isn't 100% in sharp focus
edge to edge, micro contrast out the wazoo well, it really isn't photography, its some photographer trying to make an "artistic statement", and a lame one at that !

i think the gallery should be scoured and only grand landscapes, and no artsy star trail stuff either, that is just a statement ...

the kittens goes too far, unless they are having tea.