Censorship and judgement on APUG and in the world...

[eddie]

I wanna see kittens playing poker!

 

[tkamiya]

How about create a special gallery for Stone's stuff and charge 10 bucks a months for access?

I think some of that will be inviting too much trouble from all directions. After all, we all have different values and opinions. Just because we can, doesn't necessary mean we should either. At the end, it's Sean's decision.

I'd agree to any and all of those, provided it's an OPT-IN type of gallery. (10 dollars is a joke) You choose to see them, and what you see, you don't complain.

 

[jovo]

John, I think you've had a glass or two of whatever you imbibe, but so have I, and I agree completely. Ansel is 'god' and there shall be no 'gods' before him. All photographers should have densitometerically tested all their negatives to an ideal based on printing paper from the forties, and print only on graded papers ignoring sixty years of evolution. Such work will be a lot easier when one's hand has been extracted from one's ass.

 

[BrianShaw]

I wanna see kittens playing poker!

I'd rather see cats playing russian roulette.

 

[eddie]

They're too smart for that, Brian. Never give a cat a loaded gun.

 

[StoneNYC]

It's obvious that you are an artist, because your sensitivity to criticism is acute. I recall the comment that I think triggered this, and I completely understand why you feel as you do.

I underwent a portfolio review a few years ago, and was very well received by all but one reviewer who right out of the gate said, "This isn't 'art'." Of course he was right in that I hadn't paid homage to the large, color, ironic and bland deadpan aesthetic of that moment, but I was pissed!!! It didn't matter how many supportive and complimentary comments I'd received prior to that one....it was a gutshot!!

Since then I've become much more relaxed about criticism....it's going to be inevitable once your photographs reach beyond your mother's refrigerator. You did not celebrate the model's anorexia (if it was that), you simply documented it and added your comment.

Pull up your big boy pants...suck it up, buttercup...and get the hell on with it!!! Do your best work, learn what you can from criticism, but don't leave the forum....!!!!! There's no crying in photography!!

Best response yet! Thanks so much, this is a good perspective.

 

[Arvee]

I came across this bit of wisdom somewhere on the 'net: "If you need validation, you're not creating art." As a writer, I happen to believe it's spot on.

 

[StoneNYC]

i think only ansel adams landscapes should be allowed in the gallery
cause in the end that is the only photography that will be remembered.
nude women/ men, grande still lives, photographs showing the course harsh underbelly of the world
the gore of it all, it will all be forgotten and answell adaams landscapes will be the end.
for more than a generation ... (americans at least) when they see a photograph that isn't 100% in sharp focus
edge to edge, micro contrast out the wazoo well, it really isn't photography, its some photographer trying to make an "artistic statement", and a lame one at that !

i think the gallery should be scoured and only grand landscapes, and no artsy star trail stuff either, that is just a statement ...

the kittens goes too far, unless they are having tea.

I'm pretty sure "the afghan girl" will be remembered...

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Ansel is 'god' and there shall be no 'gods' before him.

Uh oh...

Every year the wife (err, Santa) gives Ken a new AA calender for his darkroom wall.

Time to chop up the ropes and chop down the trees!



Ken

 

[semi-ambivalent]

1. A thick skin is useful. Get one.
2. I found the image inoffensive but muddy visually and in its message.
3. The subject, while thin, was not thin enough to imply, by necessity, anorexia nervosa, she might have been merely fashionable .
4. All people have baggage of one sort or another. All of them.
5. Duchamp told a friend that if he had not titled his work "Nude Descending a Staircase" there never would have been such an uproar. Titles have power; they can display things by intent not present.
6. If you feel you're on your track stay on it. If the track needs to end, and you're honest with yourself, you'll end it.
7. You should be writing polls for The Onion.

s-a

 

[Photo Engineer]

Stone;

I have seen just about everything in your poll and more on APUG. Yeah, right here!

Chill out!

PE

 

[tony lockerbie]

Can't believe that vaginas are out polling kittens.

 

[BrianShaw]

Who?

I'm pretty sure "the afghan girl" will be remembered...

 

[semi-ambivalent]

I'd rather see cats playing russian roulette.

POTD

 

[StoneNYC]

Stone;

I have seen just about everything in your poll and more on APUG. Yeah, right here!

Chill out!

PE

Yes Sir Father Kodak


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bruce Osgood]

Who?

Originally Posted by StoneNYC
I'm pretty sure "the afghan girl" will be remembered...


If I remember correctly he is referring to the National Geographic cover a few years ago of the Afghan girl with blue eyes looking beautiful.

 

[StoneNYC]

1. A thick skin is useful. Get one.
2. I found the image inoffensive but muddy visually and in its message.
3. The subject, while thin, was not thin enough to imply, by necessity, anorexia nervosa, she might have been merely fashionable .
4. All people have baggage of one sort or another. All of them.
5. Duchamp told a friend that if he had not titled his work "Nude Descending a Staircase" there never would have been such an uproar. Titles have power; they can display things by intent not present.
6. If you feel you're on your track stay on it. If the track needs to end, and you're honest with yourself, you'll end it.
7. You should be writing polls for The Onion.

s-a

Good points, the images that really show her health are all digital and forbidden here.

The title as I stated somewhere else is no the real title, I don't really give titles to my work the way others do until I actually hang them and they become official, this is simply the first thing that came to kind at the time but I also wouldn't hang this in a gallery I would hang the other ones that are clearer.

I prefer your critique at least it's honest without attack.

I probably should write for the onion...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StoneNYC]

Originally Posted by StoneNYC
I'm pretty sure "the afghan girl" will be remembered...


If I remember correctly he is referring to the National Geographic cover a few years ago of the Afghan girl with blue eyes looking beautiful.

Yes it's the most famous National Geographic photo ever, was shot on Kodachrome and was shot by Steve McCurry? In the dark, he sewed the undeveloped negatives into his jacket to smuggle them out of the country and had them processed back here after arriving home.

That's the image that inspired me to be a photographer, it will forever be ingrained in my brain.

"A few years ago" was around the time I was born, almost 30 years ago...

EDIT: and I'm pretty sure Brian was joking, he knows...

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[removed account4]

I'm pretty sure "the afghan girl" will be remembered...

.. her portrait will be confused with he plethora of other portraits, made in the last 174 years ... its just "fluff" ...
i can think of hundreds of portraits that *I* think are just as worthy of remembering, other stuff too,
but what do i know, im just an outlier ... and we all know that answell's grande landscapes are the only ones worth remembering.

everyone's landscapes are immediately compared to his. who cares about portraits adn still lives and that experimental "artty crap"
there are a zillion portrait photographers snapping portraits, and still lives + "art" maybe they should learn to paint cause
everyone knows "thats not a photograph." its just a pathetic attempt at an artistic statement...

cats playing poker would be ok, if they are smoking stoggies and drinking beer ...

 

[semi-ambivalent]

...and we all know that answell's grande landscapes are the only ones worth remembering.

Oh, an unbeliever, huh? Don't make me come over there...

It's the sort of artistic-headlock a la Bresson one sees over on Rangefinderforum, an otherwise great site.

s-a

 

[MattKing]

I'm afraid Stone, I agree with "she".

The two photos themselves are relatively unremarkable, but the background to them, including some of your (and others') comments in the thread and the gallery do create an impression about your ideas and attitudes toward your models.

That impression may or may not be inaccurate, but "she" isn't the only person who feels that way about what you have posted.

It isn't a question of censorship, it is a question of someone disagreeing with something you have posted.

You might or might not want to change what you want to post in the future - that is up to you, as I'm not going to ever say that you should be prohibited from doing so, but you should expect to be criticised if your words and/or your photos are likely to bring rise to strong feelings for any reason.

And I wish "she" would consider chiming in, because referring to her that way is extremely awkward.

 

[StoneNYC]

I'm afraid Stone, I agree with "she".

The two photos themselves are relatively unremarkable, but the background to them, including some of your (and others') comments in the thread and the gallery do create an impression about your ideas and attitudes toward your models.

That impression may or may not be inaccurate, but "she" isn't the only person who feels that way about what you have posted.

It isn't a question of censorship, it is a question of someone disagreeing with something you have posted.

You might or might not want to change what you want to post in the future - that is up to you, as I'm not going to ever say that you should be prohibited from doing so, but you should expect to be criticised if your words and/or your photos are likely to bring rise to strong feelings for any reason.

And I wish "she" would consider chiming in, because referring to her that way is extremely awkward.

Well as much as it's fairly easy to figure out who "she" is, I didn't want to call her out unless she wanted to be called out.

Someone once told me... I can't remember, I think it was Donald Trump, but I could be wrong about that, anyway someone once told me "never take advice from someone who isn't already more successful or talented than you" I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it.

So I'm sorry that you don't find my work remarkable, but I don't see any images of models or lighting setups so I guess you haven't that kind of knowledge to know how difficult it is to create an image like those two, I'm not saying it's hard, but I don't see anything to suggest you have a clue. I don't find your work remarkable either (except the moss one, I like that one). However I do like you as a poster and I don't think you're so bad, so thanks for the critique, but I'd prefer if you tell me WHY you don't think they are remarkable so that I can improve upon them. Either way, I may not take your advice on the matter, this isn't to be mean or spiteful at your comment, simply the truth, I try to learn from those I feel have a background that would help me improve. Hmm reading this... maybe I am a bit of a jerk... ah well... maybe I'm learning something about myself.

 

[MattKing]

Stone:

"Unremarkable" was probably a poor choice of words.

I meant to convey the fact that it wasn't the images themselves that brought rise to the "remarks" that concern you, but rather some of the ideas and words and conversation in the posts, especially when considered in light of the situation you posed at least one of the models in.

And I do have some ideas of the difficulties involved in what you shot - I have studio lights that I use from time to time that are probably about the same age as you are - but the sort of work that appeals to you is probably different than most of the work I like to do.

And I certainly would be wary if I were you about using Donald Trump as an arbiter about the nature of valuable advice .

 

[tkamiya]

I will have to say, this is one of the more interesting discussions I've seen here on APUG about an image and what we do when we photograph. It's far more meaningful than "Wow, good tonality! What film did you use?" or "What is art?" type discussions. This is far beyond theoretical discussions we see too often.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Stone;

I had a 45, an M16 and orders to shoot in the 60s. That was in SEA. I also had a camera. Tell Mr. Dump (opps, Trump) to talk to me sometime. I used my camera. This entire thread IMHO is a piece of KRAP in the face of what I have seen on APUG. So, Forget it, close the thread and go back to have a nice nap.

Oh, BTW, I still have an M16 and a 45! No orders though. So, I will not.

PE