CatLABS X Film 80 II (8x10) Issues...

[Roboticspro]

Hi,

Anyone have issues with random scratches on the emulsion side? This is my first rodeo with this film, and I'm wondering if the low cost is more about "you get what you pay for"...

Thanks for your insights/comments!

Regards,

Edd

 

[retina_restoration]

Hi,

Anyone have issues with random scratches on the emulsion side? This is my first rodeo with this film, and I'm wondering if the low cost is more about "you get what you pay for"...

Thanks for your insights/comments!

Regards,

Edd

Yes, that’s not unheard of. It doesn’t happen to everyone, but I suspect the film is sometimes getting damaged during “repackaging” (it’s Fomapan 100, rebranded).

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've gone through 2 boxes of the 8x10, with no issues whatsoever. Mind you, I used up the last sheet about a year ago, so maybe more recent stuff shows this?

 

[koraks]

Anyone have issues with random scratches on the emulsion side?

Can you post an example?

 

[Roboticspro]

Can you post an example?

Yes, I'll scan a couple of examples later today...

 

[abruzzi]

as I understand version 2 is Fomapan 100. Version 1 was Shanghai GP3 I believe. I've never used version 2 in Catlabs form, but I have used Foma 100. It doesn't have the same kind of quality control I'd expect from Kodak, Fuji, or Ilford, but significant issues are uncommon for me. I did have some issues with version 1 in that the occasional sheet was slightly too long so when loaded in the film holderand pushed all the way in, the very end didn't slip into the edge, so it would sit maybe .1mm to high. It didn't really cause any issues, but was very noticable.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

as I understand version 2 is Fomapan 100. Version 1 was Shanghai GP3 I believe. I've never used version 2 in Catlabs form, but I have used Foma 100. It doesn't have the same kind of quality control I'd expect from Kodak, Fuji, or Ilford, but significant issues are uncommon for me. I did have some issues with version 1 in that the occasional sheet was slightly too long so when loaded in the film holderand pushed all the way in, the very end didn't slip into the edge, so it would sit maybe .1mm to high. It didn't really cause any issues, but was very noticable.

I've only used version II. I have noticed the slightly too long sheet, as well in version II. I stuck them into a box relegated to testing... Still it's a bit of a pita...

 

[Roboticspro]

Good Morning,

Here are some examples that I found with this pack; 2 out of eight sheets had finite abrasions in the emulsion. They were processed emulsion-side in, and no rough handling involved. I never had these issues with HP5+ nor Delta 100. Maybe just a fluke batch, but I don't think that I would use this film now until I had a bigger comfort zone for the effort involved. The artifacts are on the outside walls (2) and in the middle of the driveway.

Regards,

Edd

 

[koraks]

Thanks for posting. This is the kind of abrasion I expect to see if a sharp corner of one sheet (or another kind of sharp/pointy protrusion) touches the emulsion side of another sheet when wet. What happens then is that the emulsion is locally scratched away, and the little peel clings on to one end of the scratch and forms a high-density mark there.

Scratches on dry film tend to manifest as high-density pressure marks mostly, or also low-density scratches where the emulsion is actually lifted, but you'd then also get a little high-density pressure mark at the start of the scratch where the pointy object starts to dig into the emulsion.

So my first thought is that this is caused during the wet stage of the film.

Edit: some examples for comparison.

This is on color film, but illustrates the principle I indicated above: emulsion is peeled off in places (the red & yellow stripes) and then deposits in a little curl/peel at the end of a scratch (top left in this image). The red/yellow anomalies are explained by the structure of color negative film; you get minus density/black on an inverted B&W positive.

This is abrasion damage occurred during careless respooling of B&W film; note the high-density anomaly (as a result of pressure 'exposure' of the emulsion in that place). There's also minus density abrasion, but generally not in a neat little peel that sticks to one end of a scratch and then survives processing there.

 

[retina_restoration]

Good Morning,

Here are some examples that I found with this pack; 2 out of eight sheets had finite abrasions in the emulsion. They were processed emulsion-side in, and no rough handling involved. I never had these issues with HP5+ nor Delta 100. Maybe just a fluke batch, but I don't think that I would use this film now until I had a bigger comfort zone for the effort involved. The artifacts are on the outside walls (2) and in the middle of the driveway.

Regards,

Edd

View attachment 409000

Edd, we need to know how you processed these films. What I believe I see is in line with what kodaks has suggested: these are abrasions occurring during processing (while wet), where one sheet "gouges" into the one below it. Are you developing in trays, and more than one sheet at a time? If so, I would guess that this is an abrasion incident. Fomapan is softer than any Ilford film and is much more easily scratched when wet.

 

[Roboticspro]

Edd, we need to know how you processed these films. What I believe I see is in line with what kodaks has suggested: these are abrasions occurring during processing (while wet), where one sheet "gouges" into the one below it. Are you developing in trays, and more than one sheet at a time? If so, I would guess that this is an abrasion incident. Fomapan is softer than any Ilford film and is much more easily scratched when wet.

I'm doing one sheet at a time in either the Beseler Color Drum or in a Jobo Drum, rotary processed. I also have a Heath "Color Canoe" handy if needed!

 

[koraks]

I find that when using drums or tubes for processing, it's easy to accidentally dig one corner of the film into the emulsion while unloading the film from the tube or tank. I find it's particularly a risk when using BTZS-style tubes, which are very narrow. Drums like the Jobo & Beseler are less risky, although the same thing can still happen. Having said that, the location and direction of the marks on your example sheet doesn't look like the typical "corner-oops" issue as I've run into it on occasion myself.

 

[Roboticspro]

I find that when using drums or tubes for processing, it's easy to accidentally dig one corner of the film into the emulsion while unloading the film from the tube or tank. I find it's particularly a risk when using BTZS-style tubes, which are very narrow. Drums like the Jobo & Beseler are less risky, although the same thing can still happen. Having said that, the location and direction of the marks on your example sheet doesn't look like the typical "corner-oops" issue as I've run into it on occasion myself.

Agreed; I've been doing sheet films since the 60's and although anyone can be "ham-fisted", I am pretty sure in my loading/unloading techniques over the years. That's why my OQ was about the film, and not handling technique. I do want to thank everyone who took the time to comment!

EOT...

Regards,

Edd