CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

pentaxuser · Nov 23, 2022

BrianShaw said:
Wrong answer, most likely.

I think it is asking if CatLABS currently can participate and post to Photrio. So the answer probably is, “yes, dear, it can and has.”

Perhaps an underlying question is what restrictions are associated with “restricted access” status.

Yes Matt I was trying to ask when did CatLABs realise he was allowed to participate. Your response that he was not participating as he thought he was not allowed to had been clarified was when? He seems to have been participating for a few days at least, Your answer might have indicated that clarification that he could participate was just prior to your post or it might have indicated that he has know that for a while. His "post deleted" additions indicated to me that he was never banned from participating so I just wondered when this had been clarified for him

Did he misunderstand what restricted access meant when I assume that when he was told this, it was made clear what the restriction was?

pentaxuser

Huss · Nov 23, 2022

faberryman said:
Would anyone have bought this film if they knew it was rebranded Agfa Aviphot 200?

Yes. Where can I get Agfa Aviphot for $6.99 for a 36 exp roll?

Huss · Nov 23, 2022

Film-Niko said:
Please have a look at the other thread, where the thread opener has done exactly that.

I looked and did not see it. What page where he has examples of the same subject shot at ISO 200, and at ISO 60 (?) and developed accordingly so we can compare the two images?

BrianShaw · Nov 23, 2022

Huss said:
I looked and did not see it. What page where he has examples of the same subject shot at ISO 200, and at ISO 60 (?) and developed accordingly so we can compare the two images?

Not easy to find. On page 3, post 57, OldWino posted negs at various ISO speeds. On about page 5, post 120, Alex Benjamin posted a series of near identical pics of a patio deck at various speeds. I didn’t look past that for other examples.

Film-Niko · Nov 23, 2022

Huss said:
I looked and did not see it.

Page 13 and 19. There are the posts by thread opener member aparat in which he presents the exposures series (down to an EI of 40) I was referring to.

koraks · Nov 24, 2022

pentaxuser said:
what the restriction was?

The 'restricted' status means that a user can post, but their posts are only visible to all users after we approve them. We get a notification when a post awaits in the queue, during which time the post is only visible to the user who posted it. When approved, the post becomes visible to everyone, when deleted, it is shown as 'deleted' in the thread.

pentaxuser · Nov 24, 2022

Thanks koraks That clears up this matter for me. If Matt is right that CatLABS wrongly thought that he could no longer participate then I can only presume he misunderstood the conditions under which he was able to participate as you have certainly made them clear to me.

pentaxuser

Film-Niko · Nov 24, 2022

Just some further thoughts about the real origin of the CatLabs film:
On the box is written "Made in European Union". I think we can take that as correct information (e.g. for legal reasons).
So which film manufacturers do we have in the EU:
- ADOX
- Agfa
- Film Ferrania
- FilmoTec
- Foma
- InovisCoat
- Polaroid.

Polaroid can be completely excluded as a possible source and origin of the Catlabs film as they are only doing instant film and are not active in the rebranding business.

InovisCoat and FilmoTec have now the same owner (Seal) and are operating together in cooperation (ORWO brand). They are struggling for quite some time now in an insolvency process under German law, trying to manage that successfully for survival. And they try to introduce two own films (one BW, one color; see talk about all that here on photrio in the past).
It is extremely unlikely that in such an existential and extremely difficult situation they give away film for repackaging. And all the films which FilmoTec and InovisCoat are producing are technologically completely different to the CatLabs film.
Therefore they can also be completely excluded as a possible source.

Film Ferrania and ADOX are both trying very hard to establish their own film production. Both have more than enough challenges and problems to overcome making more progress in that process. They have to be absolutely concentrated on their own business.
And therefore they are also not active in the rebranding business. And none of them have a film in their programme which could be the origin of the CatLabs film. Therefore they can also be completely excluded as a possible source.

Foma: Arista EDU BW films, Lomography Earl Grey and Lady Grey, Kosmo Foto Mono are just rebranded existing Fomapan films. So Foma is active in giving away some of their film types for simple rebranding. Nevertheless we can also completely exclude Foma as a possible source: 1) Because Foma's films are completely different to the CatLabs film. 2) CatLabs owner Omer Hecht has said explicitly that Foma is not the source of his film.

So the only possible source remaining is Agfa:
- their films are used for rebranding for almost two decades
- with Aviphot Pan 200 there is one film in their film programme which delivers exactly the technical characteristics and results we see from the CatLabs 320 Pro.
So Agfa Aviphot Pan 200 remains as the only possible film stock used for the CatLabs rebranding.

AnselMortensen · Nov 24, 2022

Ok, here's a point for discussion...
In post #1, it is stated that this film was "four years in the making"....
Four years ago, The UK was in the EU, correct?
The 'confectioning' is clearly Harman...

faberryman · Nov 24, 2022

AnselMortensen said:
Ok, here's a point for discussion...
In post #1, it is stated that this film was "four years in the making"....
Four years ago, The UK was in the EU, correct?
The 'confectioning' is clearly Harman...

You can't believe everything you read.

Film-Niko · Nov 24, 2022

AnselMortensen said:
Ok, here's a point for discussion...
In post #1, it is stated that this film was "four years in the making"....
Four years ago, The UK was in the EU, correct?
The 'confectioning' is clearly Harman...

No, there is no point for discussion at all.
Because no one has argued against that the confectioning looks like clearly made by Harman technology (Ilford Photo).
Agfa has no own 35mm and 120 film converting. If you buy Agfa film with the intention to sell it in the photographer market, you therefore need a company doing all the converting for you.
By the way, most of the Aviphot Pan 200 sold by other rebranders is also converted by Harman. So nothing new here, and no advantage concerning the CatLabs film.
And this film emulsion is definitely none of the Harman / Ilford films, because it is so much different. And Ilford only offers Kentmere 100 and 400 for rebranding.

"Fours years in the making".....could be. Time needed for financing the purchase and converting of the film. And then the pandemic happened: Ilford closed down their factory for some time. And after that they had problems to fulfill all orders because of the increased demand. Lots of backorders, needed time to work that out.
Of course in such a situation your own products have 100% priority. And other very small potential customers have to wait.

faberryman · Nov 24, 2022

Film-Niko said:
"Fours years in the making".....could be. Time needed for financing the purchase and converting of the film. And then the pandemic happened: Ilford closed down their factory for some time. And after that they had problems to fulfill all orders because of the increased demand. Lots of backorders, needed time to work that out.
Of course in such a situation your own products have 100% priority. And other very small potential customers have to wait.

Four years ago CatLABS was rebranding Kodak 5222 in 35mm and Shanghai GP3 in 120. Of course, it may have taken them four years to shift over to rebranding Agfa Aviphot 200. But as I mentioned above, you can't believe everything you read, so that "Four years in the making..." stuff could just be, uh, marketing. And the less said about the remainder of that sentence the better.

BrianShaw · Nov 24, 2022

faberryman said:
Four years ago CatLABS was rebranding Kodak 5222 in 35mm and Shanghai GP3 in 120. Of course, it may have taken them four years to shift over to rebranding Agfa Aviphot 200. But as I mentioned above, you can't believe everything you read, so that "Four years in the making..." stuff could just be, uh, marketing. And the less said about the remainder of that sentence the better.

The timeline you present is quite plausible. But do you have any indication that the "in the making" statement is false or intentionally misleading? Without such, persistent flogging of that topic seems to be little more than badgering. Aren't we better than that?

Agulliver · Nov 24, 2022

Film-Niko said:
So Agfa Aviphot Pan 200 remains as the only possible film stock used for the CatLabs rebranding.

Unless CatLabs has arranged for some slightly modified film to be manufactured for them by Agfa.

Unlikely as I'm told that Agfa coats vast quantities which last for years. But not impossible. The only way CatLabs statements could be true is if they've ordered something custom made from Agfa.

I would, however, agree that unless there is something we've all missed, Agfa seems to be the source. For me, I'd prefer to buy a Rollei branded film purely because they're cheaper in the UK. And because the owner of the Rollei brand hasn't lied or misled.

I suppose Harman could be persuaded to custom coat something different to their current products, but it would surely be beyond CatLabs means.

Don_ih · Nov 24, 2022

BrianShaw said:
You’re kidding, I hope.

I was kidding. The real embarrassment is nicely outlined by Sal, below:

Sal Santamaura said:
In my opinion, it's those who've acted important and entitled, not Omer, who ought be embarrassed by their posts in this (and other) threads.

Although mainly it was an authoritative voice saying "don't waste your money on this film" that I found problematic.

Huss · Nov 24, 2022

BrianShaw said:
Not easy to find. On page 3, post 57, OldWino posted negs at various ISO speeds. On about page 5, post 120, Alex Benjamin posted a series of near identical pics of a patio deck at various speeds. I didn’t look past that for other examples.

TY!

Henning Serger · Nov 24, 2022

Agulliver said:
Unless CatLabs has arranged for some slightly modified film to be manufactured for them by Agfa.

Unlikely as I'm told that Agfa coats vast quantities which last for years. But not impossible. The only way CatLabs statements could be true is if they've ordered something custom made from Agfa.

Agfa does not offer such "modified" or "custom made" coatings. And even if they would do, it would be much too expensive and a much too high volume product for a very small company like CatLabs.

Agulliver said:
I suppose Harman could be persuaded to custom coat something different to their current products, but it would surely be beyond CatLabs means.

To persuade Harman to do that you would need quite a lot of money . Well I know from my factory visits the amount of investment needed. Some years ago it was already very difficult and challenging, but now with the exploded raw material and logistic costs.......very very unrealistic and unlikely (saying it diplomatically ).

Best regards,
Henning

mshchem · Nov 24, 2022

I wonder if this thread outlasts the supply of this film?

woodlandSerenade · Nov 24, 2022

I hope not. As much drama has gone on regarding this film, another source of Aviphot 200 is welcome in my opinion. It is a great film for near-infrared photography.

Tomro · Nov 25, 2022

Sal Santamaura said:
In my opinion, it's those who've acted important and entitled, not Omer, who ought be embarrassed by their posts in this (and other) threads.

Weil, isn’t it entitlement and self importance telling others that they are such if not being a moderator?

koraks · Nov 25, 2022

For sake of preventing further embarrassment by anyone, as a moderator I ask you to stop wondering publicly about who should be embarrassed the most.

In case you're wondering, as moderators, we also reflect on this thread and what to make of this. I'd like to ask you guys to follow our example and do so in private.
If you want to discuss this with us moderators, feel free to use the 'report' function or open a direct conversation with one or several of us.

Thank you.

Agulliver · Nov 25, 2022

mshchem said:
I wonder if this thread outlasts the supply of this film?

If it's Agfa Aviphot 200, then there's no chance of it disappearing any time soon. Whether you choose to buy it under the CatLabs name or some other is your informed choice.

And I think that's what most of us want, to be able to make an informed choice. For some in the USA, the CatLabs film may be cheaper than Aviphot 200 sold under other names. For those of us in UK/EU, the other brands are cheaper. Knowing what's in the box we can make a choice. The issue is with the rather....creative...marketing.

Sal Santamaura · Nov 25, 2022

Tomro said:
Weil, isn’t it entitlement and self importance telling others that they are such if not being a moderator?

No. Observations and opinions are the right of all participants, as long as they don't violate PHOTRIO's rules.

Ciao.

mshchem · Nov 25, 2022

I looked at the outline of the ISO testing for speed determination. Specifically it's for Still Camera films, not aerial, graphics, radiology etc films. So ......
Clearly this works fine for some folks.

BrianShaw · Nov 25, 2022

mshchem said:
I looked at the outline of the ISO testing for speed determination. Specifically it's for Still Camera films, not aerial, graphics, radiology etc films. So ......
Clearly this works fine for some folks.

What did you look at, ISO 6? Indeed, that is for speed determination of still camera B&W film.

You might have missed this one:

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:7829:ed-1:v1:en

CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

pentaxuser

Huss

Huss

BrianShaw

Film-Niko

koraks

Moderator

pentaxuser

Film-Niko

AnselMortensen

faberryman

Film-Niko

faberryman

BrianShaw

Agulliver

Don_ih

Huss

Henning Serger

mshchem

woodlandSerenade

Tomro

koraks

Moderator

Agulliver

Sal Santamaura

mshchem

BrianShaw

CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

Moderator

Moderator

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