CatLABS X FILM 320 35mm has finally arrived

[bascom49]

CatLABS Congratulations on getting your new film to market, I’m excited to try it and look forward to learning more about it.

 

[pentaxuser]

True but a bit of help by those "making" it may help. If you buy a film called X at $10 but it is really the same film as one called Y at $7 how do you feel especially if you have made an effort to find things out but have had no help. OK some may feel that if the consumer is easily duped because he is lazy or stupid then it is his fault. I would subscribe to the idea that consumers need to read the facts, if there are any, of course.

pentaxuser

 

[Nodda Duma]

Hello Jason,



please just look at my first posting: I wrote "factories". That is a very clear and precise standard term for industrial production.



Annot offer what the global film market needs to flourish globally.

Best regards,
Henning

Hello Jason,



please just look at my first posting: I wrote "factories". That is a very clear and precise standard term for industrial production.



Yes and no.
Just imagine the three you mentioned stop their activities: Would that have a significant impact on the film industry and film shooters? No. 99.99% of the global film shooter community would probably not even realize that they have stopped because they have never used one of their products or even don't know that these guys exist at all.
And now imagine if one of Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford, Foma, or Polaroid would stop production. That would really have a significant impact on the industry and all of us. Because each of them is producing millions of rolls of film p.a., some of them even dozens of millions of films.
I am doing market research for a very long time. I've just got the newest data from the film market in. The demand for film is significantly increasing. It is so strong, that currently the volume of film backorders (orders surpassing supply) globally is in the two-digit million volume. It is so strong that some manufacturers have problems to keep up with demand, and have to run their converting lines in two or even three shifts per day operation.
And the demand will further increase in the coming years. We are just at the beginning of the film revival. We need modern, state-of-the-art industrial film production of high(er) volume to satisfy the demand of this market. And that cannot be done at all by small 1-2 employee workshops. I really appreciate what these enthusiastic people do, but they cannot offer what the global film market needs to flourish globally.

Best regards,
Henning

That’s fine, Henning, and I agree with you.
Actually, I have no problem if people underestimate small businesses. In the industry that I actually work in, underestimating small entities happens very often. I have seen 1-2 person companies grow, flourish, and unseat long-established incumbents on major contracts. Not just once or twice, but often. It is a characteristic of a healthy industry, which of course the film industry never was until very recently. The benefit always goes to the customer.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

...I am doing market research for a very long time. I've just got the newest data from the film market in. The demand for film is significantly increasing. It is so strong, that currently the volume of film backorders (orders surpassing supply) globally is in the two-digit million volume. It is so strong that some manufacturers have problems to keep up with demand, and have to run their converting lines in two or even three shifts per day operation.
And the demand will further increase in the coming years. We are just at the beginning of the film revival. ...

Hello Henning.
This is good news, I did not suspect the resurgence you suggest here. My question is, can you tell what percentage of this world-wide demand comes from China? I ask because my unsupported, unscientific view is— given China’s population, modernizing economy and growing interest in film a deep market “well” exists with the potential of surpassing the U.S. in the latter 20th century. Again, my own $0.02 worth, but I’m curious.

 

[AgX]

The decision is made by shooting the film and trying it out. Origin, who made what and where, neither of those questions are going to tell you what’s most important, how does the film look and shoot. I’m excited to buy a few rolls.

Not quite, knowing about the manufacturer may indicate the quality applied.

That may be more informative than just buying and in case of issues just getting a substitute sample of the same film. Or buying a known film under another label at higher price.
I fully understand a firm's reluctandness to reveil an actual manufacturer in case of tollproduction or plain rebadging. But the same time as consumer questioning such is appropriate too.

 

[bascom49]

CatLABS X FILM 320 is a classic, medium-speed film, designed for a wide array of shooting conditions

• An ideal “street film”, offering versatility and unique characteristics

• Characterized by its distinct grain quality, contrast and tonal range, not found with other traditional films

• Produces unique deep grey tones with an almost silvery/metallic look

• Suitable for low light or available light conditions

• Exhibits a wide exposure latitude under various lighting conditions

• Rate it at 200 ISO when shooting outdoors under bright sunlight, or push it as high as 1600 when shooting under artificial/low light conditions

Processing Instructions (at 20° C):

D-76 / ID-11:

ISO 320:
• Stock - 7 min
• 1+1 - 10 min

ISO 1600:
• Stock - 10:30 min
• 1+1 - 14 min

ISO 3200:
• 1+1 - 17 min (results unpredictable)

Rodinal:

ISO 320:
• 1+50 - 11:30 min

ISO 1600:
• 1+20 - 11 min (results unpredictable)

ISO 320 (other developers):

HC-110 (Dilution H):
• 1+63 - 14 min

Xtol:
• 1+1 - 11 min

 

[bascom49]

That and actually shooting a roll is enough for me and probably most.

 

[KN4SMF]

True but a bit of help by those "making" it may help. If you buy a film called X at $10 but it is really the same film as one called Y at $7 how do you feel especially if you have made an effort to find things out but have had no help. OK some may feel that if the consumer is easily duped because he is lazy or stupid then it is his fault. I would subscribe to the idea that consumers need to read the facts, if there are any, of course.

pentaxuser

Had you considered that the people a Catlabs are like a whole lot of people, who don't sit at a computer all the time? Could it be barely possible that they are too busy working and living their lives and maybe they haven't seen all these questions abut the origin of their product? And perhaps you might be confusing " refusal to answer" with the possibility that they haven't even seen, or aware of these questions? I submit that the internet and computers has caused more havoc, misery, and misunderstanding than any amount of convenience or usefulness it has brought into our lives. You guys are on the verge of organizing a boycott because you aren't happy they aren't chained to a computer to answer your every question. I'm no fan of the Catlabs people on account of their political persuasion I read a few years ago when they first came on here. But they ARE engaging in free commerce and trying their dead level best to bring a product to market. If I was a buyer of 35mm pre-packaged film, I'd buy some. What have you got to lose? t may be good stuff or crap. But in the end, it IS film, and it DOES make pictures, just like any other film. It's not like you're going to end up with a 5 foot strip of clear plastic if you use it.

 

[foc]

I haven't tried the new Catlab 35mm film but my confidence in their quality control was shaken by their 120 film problems.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/issues-with-the-new-catlabs-x-80-film.167589/

The 120 films appeared to be from China and had problems with the tape attaching the film to the backing paper.

Hopefully, this 35mm film has no quality control problems.

Regarding who makes it, well speculation is always fun.

 

[pentaxuser]

Had you considered that the people a Catlabs are like a whole lot of people, who don't sit at a computer all the time? Could it be barely possible that they are too busy working and living their lives and maybe they haven't seen all these questions abut the origin of their product? And perhaps you might be confusing " refusal to answer" with the possibility that they haven't even seen, or aware of these questions? I submit that the internet and computers has caused more havoc, misery, and misunderstanding than any amount of convenience or usefulness it has brought into our lives. You guys are on the verge of organizing a boycott because you aren't happy they aren't chained to a computer to answer your every question. I'm no fan of the Catlabs people on account of their political persuasion I read a few years ago when they first came on here. But they ARE engaging in free commerce and trying their dead level best to bring a product to market. If I was a buyer of 35mm pre-packaged film, I'd buy some. What have you got to lose? t may be good stuff or crap. But in the end, it IS film, and it DOES make pictures, just like any other film. It's not like you're going to end up with a 5 foot strip of clear plastic if you use it.

I know nothing and care nothing about CATLABS political persuasion of which I hadn't even had any thoughts anymore than I have thoughts about Ilford's, Kodak or Foma's assuming they have known political persuasions. I hadn't even picked up on what this political persuasion was. I must have missed what you read. Was what you read something here on Photrio or in the U.S. news media.? What I don't know is enough about their "new" film in terms of its origins, why CATLABS chose to launch it etc.

I don't know who the other guys are here who are on the verge of organising a boycott but I give a categorical assurance to you and CATLABS that I am not one of them. I hope that is some relief to you and CATLABS although I think they probably gave a potential boycott no thoughts at all, especially not one by a single Brit living thousands of miles away

As I already said: I have realised I will not obtain anymore information from CATLABs and have not addressed any more questions to them. I have since however engaged in discussion with fellow members on Photrio such as yourself on points raised.

Most threads have a limited natural life and in my case this one's life is coming to its close RIP. I will however be interested in reading anybody's findings on this film and reserve the right to ask them polite questions in an attempt to find out more

Maybe Henning Serger will do some tests on both this film and what may or may not be a similar film in Europe by Ars Imago. Now I have mentioned Ars Imago again it may be worth adding that I have no intention of launching an embargo of it either although I'd need very good reasons to buy it at its current price compared to other films available. So I suppose that in a small way, every individual organises his own one-man embargo when he decides not to buy something

pentaxuser

 

[John Galt]

I haven't tried the new Catlab 35mm film but my confidence in their quality control was shaken by their 120 film problems.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/issues-with-the-new-catlabs-x-80-film.167589/

The 120 films appeared to be from China and had problems with the tape attaching the film to the backing paper.

Hopefully, this 35mm film has no quality control problems.

Regarding who makes it, well speculation is always fun.

This is my update posted to that thread a few days ago . . .

"Update: I really, really like the look of this film.

I spoke with Omer Hecht about my issues with this film and he was very forthcoming and helpful. He assured me that the "quality control" issue has been addressed and that the film now being shipped reflects that.

He is also sending me two new rolls to replace the ones I had the tape issue with.

It seems that the issues (are) were primarily with Hasselblad because of the torturous path the film must take through the film magazine. I had the tape pull away on my second and third (?) roll. I have now shot 5 more rolls with no issue. Now that I am aware of the issue I am very careful winding to the first frame in my Hasselbald magazines, after that it is the same as any other roll 120 film.

I also asked Omer directly regarding the marketing of this film as "Following in the footsteps of Kodak's famous 'Panatomic-X' (which was used in Polaroid's equally famous Type 55 film), CatLABS X FILM 80 brings back a classic touch with its unique look" he indicated in the affirmative that this emulsion was deliberately formulated to emulate the classic Kodak Panatomic X.

I am looking forward to receiving these new rolls to see if the tape has been applied the full width of the film to the backing paper.

Thank you Omer!"

 

[bascom49]

John,
Thanks for shooting the film and sharing your feedback and experiences. Also, thanks for going the extra mile and doing the same with CatLabs, your efforts have helped in giving us another choice of film
Stock to use and have also helped increase its quality.

Also thanks to Omer at CatLABS for his efforts to improve their products.

All of us should support our film manufacturers in any way possible including honest feedback of their products to help increase the manufactures efforts in bringing high quality products to market.

I think it is important that all of us keep in mind that a new product may have a few kinks to correct and that our support is important in introducing new film stocks to the market for us to use and enjoy.

 

[Sirius Glass]

This is my update posted to that thread a few days ago . . .

"Update: I really, really like the look of this film.

I spoke with Omer Hecht about my issues with this film and he was very forthcoming and helpful. He assured me that the "quality control" issue has been addressed and that the film now being shipped reflects that.

He is also sending me two new rolls to replace the ones I had the tape issue with.

It seems that the issues (are) were primarily with Hasselblad because of the torturous path the film must take through the film magazine. I had the tape pull away on my second and third (?) roll. I have now shot 5 more rolls with no issue. Now that I am aware of the issue I am very careful winding to the first frame in my Hasselbald magazines, after that it is the same as any other roll 120 film.

I also asked Omer directly regarding the marketing of this film as "Following in the footsteps of Kodak's famous 'Panatomic-X' (which was used in Polaroid's equally famous Type 55 film), CatLABS X FILM 80 brings back a classic touch with its unique look" he indicated in the affirmative that this emulsion was deliberately formulated to emulate the classic Kodak Panatomic X.

I am looking forward to receiving these new rolls to see if the tape has been applied the full width of the film to the backing paper.

Thank you Omer!"

The honesty is refreshing. I am glad the 120 tape issue got their attention.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I'm no fan of the Catlabs people on account of their political persuasion I read a few years ago when they first came on here...

I know nothing and care nothing about CATLABS political persuasion...

An on-topic comment: Catlabs (Omer) does not make emulsions or coat film. Like many private label sellers, he obtains film elsewhere (I neither know nor care where) and retails it. Anyone who expects more information about his supplier, including details concerning how the film compares to other films from that supplier or his contractual arrangements with it, is absolutely guaranteed to be disappointed.

 

[pentaxuser]

I also asked Omer directly regarding the marketing of this film as "Following in the footsteps of Kodak's famous 'Panatomic-X' (which was used in Polaroid's equally famous Type 55 film), CatLABS X FILM 80 brings back a classic touch with its unique look" he indicated in the affirmative that this emulsion was deliberately formulated to emulate the classic Kodak Panatomic X.

Thank you Omer!"

So from what you say does this mean that CATLABS has produced this 320 film i.e. has all the facilities required to (a) make films from start to finish or has (b) the ability to devise its own emulsion and coat bases or commissions another company to make the emulsion according to CATLABs specs but coat on its bases?

If this a film that meets any of the above conditions a-c then it may well be a genuinely new film for all practical purposes. I am simply trying to find out exactly what CATLABS part in this film is? Not a trick/gotcha question, just seeking information.

Googling CATLABS doesn't seem to reveal anything valuable in terms of information about its film producing facilities even in the broadest sense of that phrase "film producing i.e. from a small dept of film engineers who can specify a custom- made emulsion to complete facilities to make film similar perhaps to Adox or a Ferrania organisation

Any members who live in Boston or better still the Jamaica Plain area of Boston who can give information? Their contribution would be appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[OrientPoint]

Last I checked CatLabs was a photo store in the Jamaica Plains section of Boston. They're not coating film. They're reselling film in a box with a cat cartoon on it. That's not to say it's good or bad film, but what they're selling isn't new or innovative. Personally, all things being equal I'll go with Kodak and be sure of a roll that works every time.

 

[John Galt]

So from what you say does this mean that CATLABS has produced this 320 film i.e. has all the facilities required to (a) make films from start to finish or has (b) the ability to devise its own emulsion and coat bases or commissions another company to make the emulsion according to CATLABs specs but coat on its bases?

If this a film that meets any of the above conditions a-c then it may well be a genuinely new film for all practical purposes. I am simply trying to find out exactly what CATLABS part in this film is? Not a trick/gotcha question, just seeking information.

Googling CATLABS doesn't seem to reveal anything valuable in terms of information about its film producing facilities even in the broadest sense of that phrase "film producing i.e. from a small dept of film engineers who can specify a custom- made emulsion to complete facilities to make film similar perhaps to Adox or a Ferrania organisation

Any members who live in Boston or better still the Jamaica Plain area of Boston who can give information? Their contribution would be appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

This original CatLabs thread will answer some questions and surely raise some questions for you . .

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/catlabs-x-film-320-35mm-and-80-120.166656/

 

[BrianShaw]

So from what you say does this mean that CATLABS has produced this 320 film i.e. has all the facilities required to (a) make films from start to finish or has (b) the ability to devise its own emulsion and coat bases or commissions another company to make the emulsion according to CATLABs specs but coat on its bases?

If this a film that meets any of the above conditions a-c then it may well be a genuinely new film for all practical purposes. I am simply trying to find out exactly what CATLABS part in this film is? Not a trick/gotcha question, just seeking information.

Googling CATLABS doesn't seem to reveal anything valuable in terms of information about its film producing facilities even in the broadest sense of that phrase "film producing i.e. from a small dept of film engineers who can specify a custom- made emulsion to complete facilities to make film similar perhaps to Adox or a Ferrania organisation

Any members who live in Boston or better still the Jamaica Plain area of Boston who can give information? Their contribution would be appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobber_(merchandising)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retail

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Folks, we don’t have time to edit the politics out of individual posts. If you feel you must state such sentiments on Photrio, please take them to The Soapbox.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Of course you don't, but Mr. Henry T. Finley III of Matthews, North Carolina is obsessed with politics and can't resist injecting it into non-Soap Box threads where it doesn't belong. I've reported post #33 for that reason.

An on-topic comment: Catlabs (Omer) does not make emulsions or coat film. Like many private label sellers, he obtains film elsewhere (I neither know nor care where) and retails it. Anyone who expects more information about his supplier, including details concerning how the film compares to other films from that supplier or his contractual arrangements with it, is absolutely guaranteed to be disappointed.

Well Sal gets it. If company A said company B made their film that would heavily damage either A or B or Both.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Last I checked CatLabs was a photo store in the Jamaica Plains section of Boston. They're not coating film. They're reselling film in a box with a cat cartoon on it. That's not to say it's good or bad film, but what they're selling isn't new or innovative. Personally, all things being equal I'll go with Kodak and be sure of a roll that works every time.

Kodak or Ilford

 

[AgX]

Well Sal gets it. If company A said company B made their film that would heavily damage either A or B or Both.

Is that so? For instance Maco from some time omwards clearly stated on the cassettes of some of their Rollei branded films that they were made by Agfa.

 

[pentaxuser]

This original CatLabs thread will answer some questions and surely raise some questions for you . .

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/catlabs-x-film-320-35mm-and-80-120.166656/

Thanks for that link and thanks to all who have since responded. From my a-c possibilities( see my # 40) it would appear that (c) is the only possibility but of course that requires, I would have thought, either a set of CATLABS photo engineers who can specify an emulsion to meet its requirements to another manufacturer or at its most basic if such engineers are not employed by CATLABS they i.e. CATLABS discuss their requirements in terms of a new emulsion with the unknown company and it produces the emulsion for them.

Using CATLABS statement on the 80 speed 120 roll film and the statement from the only U.K. retailer that stocks this I think that most consumers taking both statements at face value will conclude that the 120 emulsion is a bespoke emulsion which is different from any other emulsion. A change of speed to 320 on the 135 film may suggest to consumers that CATLABS have commissioned another emulsion to its specs and this too is different from anything out there but I cannot find a similar statement on the 135 film that makes things as clear in terms of the 135's emulsion as seems to be the case for the 80 speed 120 film

For information in case those in the U.K. who asked in the link given me by John Galt and who still don't know, the stockist is Firstcall Photographic for CATLABS 80. The price at £6.99 is appreciably more than the likes of D100, Pan F or really any other 120 B&W roll film on sale in the U.K. Mind you if it is a new emulsion made by a third party to CATLAB specs then this cannot have been cheap and again this might be an argument( as in supporting line of reasoning) for the price . At an exchange rate of $1.24 to £1 this makes the U.S. price for CATLAB 80 film $8.70. Out of interest what is the retail U.S. price?

As yet no one in the U.K. seems to stock the 135 320 film but it may be too soon for this to have happened.

pentaxuser

 

[John Galt]

$5.55 USD per 120 roll . .

 

[pentaxuser]

$5.55 USD per 120 roll . .

So in the U.S. CATLABS 80 is the equivalent of about £4.50. So at the one U.K. stockist we pay £2.50 or more than 50% more. How does the U.S price for CATLABS 80 compare with say Kodak Tmax 100, Ilford D100 or Ilford FP4+ .

At £4.50 in the U.K. which is your U.S. equivalent price it becomes competitive on price even if it has no other edge on other films.

Thanks

pentaxuser