Casket sets, anyone?

[highpeak]

Diane, would that be something similar to this?

So, it was you who outbid me on this one

Let see how big a hole can this thread make in my wallet.

Keep them coming.

Alex W.

 

[ongarine]

I have a very heavy brass addiction.(see Scrigno n.1)
It started many years ago with the curiosity to see how the oldies lenses for LF I saw around me could perform.
This the first part of the addiction (home collection) and the last part (office) will be, if someone is still interesting (too much is too much) next week. I tested most of the lenses I have in a undity way, for some I recorded the datas for others impressions, results sleep in some shelves.
I have a soft spot for casket sets (see Scrigno n.2) and some I collect are really bizzare like a Meyer for stereo camera or a Schulze und Billerbeck Euryplan.
Some are very similar and belong to Vademecum family, others are not so usual.
In the next days I will send photos and comments on them.

 

[Ole]

Wonderful, ongarine!

There are indeed many in the Vademecum family, I've got two more in the last week. One of them came with a B&L Unicum shutter, which I'll send off to Carol at Flutots for a checkup (along with a couple of other shutters and a bagful of spare parts donor shutters). I got that one cheap, since it was listed as an "old pneumatic shutter".

 

[Brian Bullen]

Ongarine, impressive collection! Will you adopt me?

 

[jimgalli]

What a lovely collection Ongarine.

Here are pics of my one casket set that is incomplete. I hope someone will have the complete set and be able to tell me about it. It is a bayonet style and someone has fashioned the copper barrel so it can be used with no aperture. Present are #1, #3, #4BIS? #5, & #7. #2 and #6 obviously with the original barrel and aperture where ever it has gone. Does anyone know what this is?

 

[ongarine]

Jim,
I saw a very similar casket set: it was a Darlot and it belong to a friend of mine.
It had the same casket with red spacers and elements (cells and numbers on them) are the same of yours and I took with it some color pictures in 8x10 some years ago.
It had a very interesting set of cells, some are only for the back and they are divide to be use as wide angle (grand angulaire) the other as normal or semi-tele. The coverage is not so huge and back cells used single are really soft focus. The apertures are waterhouse stop.
I will ask to my friend to send me a photo to confirm my memory

 

[jimgalli]

Jim,
I saw a very similar casket set: it was a Darlot and it belong to a friend of mine.
It had the same casket with red spacers and elements (cells and numbers on them) are the same of yours and I took with it some color pictures in 8x10 some years ago.
It had a very interesting set of cells, some are only for the back and they are divide to be use as wide angle (grand angulaire) the other as normal or semi-tele. The coverage is not so huge and back cells used single are really soft focus. The apertures are waterhouse stop.
I will ask to my friend to send me a photo to confirm my memory

Thanks! Very helpful and interesting. Yes, the knurling and construction looks like something from Darlot. Do you know what 'Bis' was short for on the #4? Best, Jim

 

[Ole]

I think I have some orphaned Darlot cells somewhere! If I remember correctly, two of them are marked "pays" and one "bis". will look for them tomorrow.

 

[ongarine]

Jim,
bis means repetition. Here in Italy in a concert when you want more music you ask for a "bis"
So, outside music, it is a lens of the same focal lenght you find in double copies in a casket set.
Speaking of double here there is the Meyer Stereo casket set.
Manufacturer is Hugo Meyer & Co - Gorlitz n.831
It is composed of: two same barrells with the number aperture sistem, very common in the casket sets of beginning of last Century.
The cells are four for every barrell:
1=43 cm.
2=35 cm.
3=22 cm.
4=15 cm.
It is an Aplanat or rectilinear and there is no instructions in it.
Someone had inscribed roughly on one barrell R, on the other L, this is a clear statement it was used, probably in England, on a stereo camera.
Never used with film only see its performances on the ground glass. It is in the wave of the Meyer Universal casket sets.
Meyer casket set story will continue.......

 

[Ole]

"R" and "L" could equally well be German - for "Recht" and "Links"!

 

[ongarine]

You are right Ole since my knowledge of German language is very close to zero and your consideration makes more sense then mine since I bought this one in Germany......
I will try to do my best for the next Meyer
HUGO MEYER Satz Rapid Group Aristoskop
Manufacturer is Hugo Meyer & Co - Gorlitz no number, neither incription on the barrell.
I determinated the origin by measuring the aperture wide open and it is f 5,5 and the design of the lenses, symmetrical aplanatic construction, is the same of Aristsoskop. For this purpose I have consulted an old Meyer catalogue.
It is composed of barrell with one washer stop, I had have made the others to test the casket set.
The cells are six, two for every focal length:
1=50 cm.
2=40 cm.
3=30 cm.
Combined cells with coverage in centimeters
50 ¦ 50 ¦ | 26 ¦ 13x18
50 ¦ 40 ¦ | 23 ¦ 13x18
40 ¦ 40 ¦ | 21 ¦ 13x18
40 ¦ 30 ¦ | 18 ¦ 10x12
30 ¦ 30 ¦ | 16 ¦ 10x12


Coverage single cell
50 ¦ 30x40 ¦
40 ¦ 24x30 ¦
30 ¦ 20x25

It is an Aplanat or rectilinear with a medium/small coverage around 60 degrees and it was used mainly for portraits and groups as catalogue said.
Images on the ground glass wide open are very portraitist-style, plastic and soft in the same time, close down it became more sharp.
Photo will arrive very soon

 

[ongarine]

Here there is the photo of the Aristoskop Rapid Group Satz, it was a long battle, but somenthing was wrong with the computer, maybe the name of the casket
Brian the adoption is open, get a ticket to Verona-Italia and you will have the opportunity to test every "brass addiction" you want.....naturally with moderation not to induce dependence

 

[Brian Bullen]

Ongarine, thank you very much! If I ever have the pleasure to visit your part of the world I would love to pay a visit. I think the old brass used in these lenses must contain some sort of addictive property and once touched the need for more never ends.

 

[ongarine]

That's right Brian here I'm and to improve the dependence I introduce you the most simple casket set I saw and used.
No name or indications, it seems a French manufacturer but it is only an assumption.
It is composed of the following sigle lenses: 60, 48, 40, 30, 25, 20 centimeters.
The focal length is roughly script on the edge of the lens.
They get in position on the barrell with two very large washer stops.
The combinations are these:
60 ¦ 48 ¦ | 26.5 ¦
60 ¦ 40 ¦ | 24 ¦
48 ¦ 40 ¦ | 22 ¦
48 ¦ 30 ¦ | 18.5 ¦
40 ¦ 30 ¦ | 17 ¦
40 ¦ 25 ¦ | 15 ¦
30 ¦ 25 ¦ | 13.5¦
30 ¦ 20 ¦ | 12 ¦
25 ¦ 20 ¦ | 11 ¦
There are waterhouse stops as follows: f25 f20 f15 f10 f5 f2 and the place for the waterhouse is very near to the front lens.
Results wide open, with a combination, are very similar to an Holga lens, very small focus in the centre of the image and a complete out of focus for the rest 35% focus and a big amount of blur. This for 4x5 format and medium combinations of lenses.
With small apertures the focus increase until 55-60% and with long combinations it cover barely.
Single lenses are usable but with more or less the same results of the combinations.
I put it in front of a Copal 3 with adapter ring in a 8x10 camera and it is weird!
I will post some 4x5 photos as soon as I print them, for 8x10 you have to wait until Christmas.

 

[Ole]

There's nothing more "basic" than that, that's for sure!

Are the individual lenses meniscii, or biconvex? It's a bit hard to tell from the picture...

If they are meniscii, the usable angle of view with two lenses should be around 40 degrees at f:32, according to my own Voigtländer W.Z. But then again that one was made as a soft-focus enlarger lens; I have no experience with using meniscii (or Periskops) for photography.

 

[Brian Bullen]

Ongarine, I look forward to seeing some images made with your lenses. It's odd that the waterhouse stop is near the front, is this to better correct a single element in the rear. I always thought the optimum place for a stop was in the middle of two elements. Any ideas?

 

[ongarine]

Pardon me.
They are slightly biconvex, very light weight.
The place of the stops, very near of the front lens could also be used with a single lens in the back for portrait, as in the Bausch & Lomb Plastigmat Portrait, even if I doubt this casket set was for portraiture.
It seems to be used for very small format, maximum 9x12 centimeters.

 

[Ole]

Well - here's one more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170176170243&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

I'll see what it's good for when I get it.

BTW - the same seller has one of those iris lens mounts. I wonder what it will end up at - at the moment there's 5 hours left to go, and it's already way above what any of mine have cost (included camera excluded)!

 

[ongarine]

Ole, I have prepared the photo with comments of the same casket set you won...
I don't want your surprise broken
I will wait for your impressions, in the meantime I will post others information about casket set.

 

[Ole]

That's fine, ongarine.

The website setup has hit an unexpected snag - I no longer have the email address I used when I registered it. So there's plenty of time, it seems! But keep the info coming, and we'll share a bottle of Amarone one day. Or maybe I Capitelli?

BTW, that iris lens mount went for $511. I may have to sell one of mine soon, with this kind of prices someone might start making them again!

 

[Brian Bullen]

Ole, the same buyer paid $405 a week ago for another lens iris. Just a month ago they were going for $250. With these kind of prices I guess I lost my chance. I hope someone does begin making them and at a fair price.

 

[Jim Noel]

The prices one person is paying for the adjustable iris lens holders reminds me of the time when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market and drove teh rice of silver from about $4 to almost $40 before they lost a huge amount.
Hopefully similar will happen to the current over bidder.

 

[seawolf66]

the following company has a casket set for sale on E-BAY! [http://www.cameraeccentric.com/index.html] price when I looked was around
675.00 apprx:

 

[Ole]

Yes, Seth usually has one or two. And information on some of them. He's a very helpful person, I've found!

 

[ongarine]

A little bit too optimistic about casket set performances
Here another example of casket set with special qualities.
Not an Aplanat or rectilinear but an anastigmat with a French design of lenses, that means somenthing particular. French designers always made some littlle or huge change in exixting optic configuration.
This is Hermagis Trousse Aplanastigmatique n.5 and it consist of: 2 cells n. 5a, 1 cell n.6, 1 cell n.7
The focal lenghts are: No7=40 cm. (16in), No6=52cm. (20.5in), and No5a= 60cm (24in.) These are symmetrical anastigmats, 3+3 type and possibly Dagor or Collinear types
Maximum combined set of cells is 31 cm (12in), the apertures are both in millimeters and in "modern" aperture starting from f6,8 to 40.
Coverage is around 70 degrees wide open and 85/90 degrees stopped down similar to the Collinear, so a little bit less than some Dagors.
Single cells cover around 60 open and around 70/75 close.
Tested they are mellow wide open and increasing stops they became sharper when in combinations, single cells are very interesting for portaiture until for most of the apertures, after f 32 they became sharp.
I have also the Trousse Aplanastigmatique n.7 with 2x No7, plus one each of No 8 and 9 for foci from 12 cm (4.75in) combined to 40 cm. (16in.) single cell, usefull for 4x5.
For the N.5 I have bought two of them to have one complete and in good order, but this happened often with casket sets because during years some components were losted or missed in action.
So for all the owner of Busch's Unicum Aplanatsatz casket sets model C or similar I have to complete this or another, take note and send me a PM.