Can't get good B&W development results - 16mm Double-X in CineStill D96

[DareFail]

You developed Double-X with Xtol and it looked grainy?

I guess it was not that grainy as yours..
Develop the film as suggested on post #69 and let's see the results.

 

[cannotShootStraight]

Shot of Kodak Double-X in Mamiya 16 Automatic.
Development:
1. Rinse film with tap water (20°C)
2. Develop with Ilford Perceptol (20°C) for 7min (10s/min)
3. Rinse film with tap water (20°C)
4. Fixing (20°C) for 10min (10s/min)
5. Rinse
6. Wash with tap water + Adox Adoflo II

I mean just look at the pictures! No grain overload! They are a little bit underexposed but even increasing the brightness in Lightroom doesn't increase the grain too much.
As far as I know Ilford Perceptol is the finest grain developer there is? I could not get my hand on D-76 or Xtol so I thought Perceptol is the next best option.

This even shows how sharp the Mamiya 16 lens really is!

 

[cannotShootStraight]

Hey it is me again.
I am still not entirely happy with my setup. I just shot a few low-light situations yesterday (in a restaurant, on the street with lighting but in the night) and they pretty much all turned out like garbage. A few images even were just totally dark.
I think this is partly due to Ilford Perceptol reducing the effective speed of the film (as far as I know it may cut it down by up to 1 stop of light) but also that Double-X is not the fastest film at ISO 250.
Basically the only idea that comes to mind is buying a slicer to cut down Delta 3200 but then there are two problems:

• The only other format I shoot is 35mm so slicing 35mm film is the logical choice
• Slicing 35mm into 16mm will either produce a lot of residue or inferior film with perforations protruding the image
• So using 120 film might be the only option for slicing but then I don't have a camera that takes 120 film and I don't really want to buy one (yet)

So maybe my only choice is going into color negative and buying Vision3 500T, but then I have to work with C-41 at home which is costly and not as easy as b&w.

Can someone resolve this dilemma for me? Ideally there would be a 16mm film at > ISO 400 but as far as I know there is none.

 

[koraks]

buying a slicer to cut down Delta 3200

You were concerned about grain earlier on. This is not going to improve when you shoot Delta 3200...

So maybe my only choice is going into color negative and buying Vision3 500T, but then I have to work with C-41 at home which is costly and not as easy as b&w.

Depends a bit. There are low cost color chemistry kits. Some are fairly decent. Bellini makes nice stuff these days. I'd recommend their ECN2 kit for Vision3 films. And developing color film at home really isn't difficult.

The main question is if you want to shoot color. If so, then you'll overcome the technical challenges. I don't know about you, but for me, shooting color and B&W are entirely different things and the choice is never dictated by technicalities such as grain, film speed etc. It's entirely dictated by what I want to shoot and how I envision the end result. For me, it's also an entirely different way of looking/seeing; if I take a camera loaded with color film on an outing, I'll get home with totally different images, subject matter, compositions etc. than what I would have shot on B&W under the same circumstances. They both happen to be called photography, but color and B&W for me are like different planets.

 

[cannotShootStraight]

You were concerned about grain earlier on.

I am not concerned about grain. D96 from CineStill just seems to be pretty bad at handling grain. Perceptol works much better.

The main question is if you want to shoot color.

I want to shoot color but not really developing it myself right now. But I also want to do some night time photography.

 

[lamerko]

Hey it is me again.
I am still not entirely happy with my setup. I just shot a few low-light situations yesterday (in a restaurant, on the street with lighting but in the night) and they pretty much all turned out like garbage. A few images even were just totally dark.
I think this is partly due to Ilford Perceptol reducing the effective speed of the film (as far as I know it may cut it down by up to 1 stop of light) but also that Double-X is not the fastest film at ISO 250.
Basically the only idea that comes to mind is buying a slicer to cut down Delta 3200 but then there are two problems:

• The only other format I shoot is 35mm so slicing 35mm film is the logical choice
• Slicing 35mm into 16mm will either produce a lot of residue or inferior film with perforations protruding the image
• So using 120 film might be the only option for slicing but then I don't have a camera that takes 120 film and I don't really want to buy one (yet)

So maybe my only choice is going into color negative and buying Vision3 500T, but then I have to work with C-41 at home which is costly and not as easy as b&w.

Can someone resolve this dilemma for me? Ideally there would be a 16mm film at > ISO 400 but as far as I know there is none.

If you want real box speed film, try Microphen/DDX.
About Delta 3200 - it's a unique film, but keep in mind that it's actually rated (officially) at EI 1000. If you decide to cut it, shoot it in the 800-1600 EI range. However, this is an expensive film and to be cut... I don't know, I wouldn't dare to destroy such a film
In fact, subminiature cameras are not suitable for low-light scenes. They work well with low speed films, but with grainier ones it doesn't look good.
For Vision3 - it's not terrible. Sold in 100 and 400ft boxes, be very careful if you order 400ft - it comes in both single sided and double sided (2R) perforations. Some larger-frame subminiature cameras require single-sided (or no) perforation.

 

[cannotShootStraight]

For Vision3 - it's not terrible.

Did you try Vision3 in 16mm?
I don't really want to handle so much chemistry (b&w + c-41) at once, especially if it expires quickly (within weeks) and I don't want to buy a sous vide heater just for bringing the chemicals up to temperature. That's my problem at the moment.

 

[lamerko]

To be honest, I never bought a 16mm Vision3. But at the same time I have solid other stock on 16mm that came as a bonus set with other stuff. Barring the exotics, which I have not yet researched by what process they can be developed, I have Fujifilm 64d, 250D, and am currently waiting for a 400ft roll of Reala 500d. It's a hell of a lot of film, some of the rolls came with literally no money. They are processed in the same way as Vision3 - according to ECN-2 process (or if you wish - C-41). The only exception is the Kodak E100, which I bought very recently, directly from Kodak. At the moment, none of these boxes have been opened, but I recently have subminiature cameras. I just don't have time for them. So far I've only tested them with black and white film, but I'll prioritize them soon as I've finally found Minolta 16 cartridges - they're so hard to come by...
Otherwise, I use Vision3 on 35mm regularly, mixing the chemistry myself. And yes, you need temperature control, sous vide is perfect for this purpose.

 

[cannotShootStraight]

I've only tested them with black and white film

Which one did you use?
Maybe I just have to accept that low light is not the strength of 16mm cameras

 

[koraks]

especially if it expires quickly (within weeks)

Most C41 chemistry will keep fine for months if stored properly. Store it in entirely full, tightly capped glass bottles, especially the developer.

For temperature, a plastic tub and a thermometer suffice. Just heat up some water, mix hot & cold to just above the desired temperature and use that bath to bring your chemistry and processing tank up to temperature. A €45 sous vide stick is easier, but the manual mixing method works fine, too.

Don't worry about it; it's much less intimidating than it sounds.