Canoscan FS4000US opinions?

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tomfrh

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I am going to start scanning my negs and need a decent way to do it. I'm tossing up between DSLR and scanner.

I recently got ahold of a canon FS4000US. I am running via USB with windows 10 (I understand the SCSI is faster if you go that route).

Is this a good scanner in general? It seems to work alright, however it's fairly old, and I wondered if something like a plustek 8200 is better option?

I will be using to scan and print photos. Nothing huge. A3 or thereabouts.
 

shutterfinger

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I would go with the Plustek or a full frame DSLR. The Plustek will give a higher Dmax and larger file than the Cannon plus it will scan and save in 16 bit.
Dmax is the difference between dark and bright areas of the negative. The Plustek has a Dmax of 3.6, the Cannon is not stated so its likely 2 or less. A higher Dmax captures more detail in the dark areas of the film.
The manufacturers rated optical resolution is 7200dpi. Many will state that this number is bogus but its the test method that produces the number. The scanner software be it Plustek, Silverfast, Vuscan, will use the numbering the manufacturer provides. To achieve the alternate test resolution highest limit the highest optical limit as stated by the manufacturer has to be used.
Scanning at the optical limit of the scanner, saving, then reducing in steps to the desired file size gives better results than a lower resolution scan. A lower resolution scan is fine for small prints or if you are not too critical of the print quality.
16 bits per pixel gives more information to work with in post processing than 8 bits per channel.
Silverfast SE or SE Plus scans at 16 bit but saves at 8 bits and is supplied with the 8200. The Canon scans at 14 bits and saves at 8 bits.
I have not scanned with a DSLR so I cannot comment on the quality.
 
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Nah, the Canon will trounce the Plustek. Well not trounce but it is better. The Canon is a bit slow though from what I remember. I have an image from a slide scanned on a Canon from over 20 years ago and about a year back I thought I'd give it a go again with my Nikon scanner. Couldn't beat it. I was thinking about picking up a Canon just for the heck of it.

If you want fast then you might as well go the camera scanner route. If you are just going to scan here and there then the Canon should do a fine job.
 

plummerl

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I've had my FS4000US since 2003 (purchased new). It's still a great scanner. I'm using Vuescan, which supports it very well (Windows 10). I'm also using a SCSI interface (Adaptec 29320LPE ULTRA320), which is much faster than the USB, since it's only USB-2. If you are talking about scanning a ton of images, I'd definitely go with the DSLR approach, the speed of acquisition is way beyond that of the Canon. The usual image size (TIFF/RAW) is around 125MB, scan time is 1m30s.
 

Les Sarile

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I've had my FS4000US since 2003 (purchased new). It's still a great scanner. I'm using Vuescan, which supports it very well (Windows 10). I'm also using a SCSI interface (Adaptec 29320LPE ULTRA320), which is much faster than the USB, since it's only USB-2. If you are talking about scanning a ton of images, I'd definitely go with the DSLR approach, the speed of acquisition is way beyond that of the Canon. The usual image size (TIFF/RAW) is around 125MB, scan time is 1m30s.

A minute and a half to scan a frame? Is that with or without FARE - Canon's dust and scratch removal.
 
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tomfrh

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since it's only USB-2

It’s only USB1.1 unfortunately!

People say it takes 3 times as long as SCSI.

If you are talking about scanning a ton of images, I'd definitely go with the DSLR approach, the speed of acquisition is way beyond that of the Canon.

I will scan around 500 mounted slide and negatives.

Do you think that warrants DSLR? What about SCSI upgrade?
 

gcoates

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I have a CanoScan FS4000 US. It still works great, except I broke a hinge off the film strip holder, so the film shifts during scanning. It is definitely slow, but the quality is great.
 

brbo

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I will scan around 500 mounted slide and negatives.

Do you think that warrants DSLR? What about SCSI upgrade?

I timed the scanning times for a negative on my FS4000US. Exposure time in Vuescan was set to 2.4 - if you are going to scan slide film exposure times will be considerably lower.

USB1: 2:53min
SCSI: 1:38min

That's at 4000dpi and no FARE. FARE needs a separate pass and doesn't really work that well on my scanner since the IR pass is not in perfect register with the RGB scan. Maybe the transport mechanism is already worn out on my scanner (I bought it second hand so I don't know it's history). Otherwise, it's a good scanner. True resolution (measured with USAF 1951 target) is just shy of 4000dpi.
 
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snusmumriken

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I am going to start scanning my negs and need a decent way to do it. I'm tossing up between DSLR and scanner.

I recently got ahold of a canon FS4000US. I am running via USB with windows 10 (I understand the SCSI is faster if you go that route).

Is this a good scanner in general? It seems to work alright, however it's fairly old, and I wondered if something like a plustek 8200 is better option?

I will be using to scan and print photos. Nothing huge. A3 or thereabouts.

The Epson is a surprisingly decent scanner. I used to have one available at work, which we ran using Vuescan (which I recommend). It produces good RAW files of about 50MB, which I have then tidied up in Aperture. I have never had scans as good as these from any commercial service.

My only criticisms are that once the Epson had gathered dust on its sensor and other critical surfaces it wasn't obvious how to clean it, and I wasn't brave enough to take a screwdriver to it (since it didn't belong to me); and that it is slow.
 

Les Sarile

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It’s only USB1.1 unfortunately!

People say it takes 3 times as long as SCSI.



I will scan around 500 mounted slide and negatives.

Do you think that warrants DSLR? What about SCSI upgrade?

If you only intend to scan this finite number of film then perhaps the dslr route may be better. Specially if you intend to continue using it as your picture taker.

One of the main advantages of a scanner is dust and scratch removal. Are the mounted slides you intend to scan include kodachrome? If so then Canon's FARE will not be usable at all.

For scanning film, the biggest advantage of dslr scanning is speed of acquisition - specially when you have the right setup. However, for color negatives, the color conversion process can be challenging and you can potentially loose the speed advantage over a scanner. With the D850's built-in conversion - albeit limited to jpeg output, this can be useful.
 

plummerl

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Since you already have the Canon FS4000US, I'd simply use that with only 500 images. Unless you have a fairly ancient OS, you will need to use Vuescan, which continues to support it. There is no "FARE" option, this was a feature of the CanoScan SW, but Vuescan has dust removal and other features. SCSI speed is nice, if you can find a card, cable and slot to put it in, otherwise just take your time and use USB. Either way, if using Lightroom, I highly recommend Negative Lab Pro. It can not only be used for negatives, but you can also use it on slides that need color restoration, but of course if we're talking Kodachrome, I've never had to use it.
 
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tomfrh

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There is no "FARE" option, this was a feature of the CanoScan SW, but Vuescan has dust removal and other features.

I have tried Vuescan with the Canon 4000. The scanner does the 2nd (IR?) pass. Is Vuescan using this IR information for the dust removal?
 

brbo

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I have tried Vuescan with the Canon 4000. The scanner does the 2nd (IR?) pass. Is Vuescan using this IR information for the dust removal?

Yes. You control this in the 'Filter' tab.
 

alanrockwood

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I have this scanner. In fact, I have about a half dozen of them, each connected to a different computer. Quality is great... on par with a Nikon scanner according to some tests or reviews. Nearly equal to a Nikon scanner according to some other tests. The main disadvantage is that it is slow. Using SCSI helps. That's a bit tricky if you have a windows 10 computer because it isn't easy to install the scsi drivers under windows 10. There's a trick to doing this. I don't recall the details, but I think it has something to do with turning off some kind of security feature in windows 10 temporarily while you install the scsi card. Anyway, I succeeded in doing this.

The slowness of the this scanner is somewhat compensated for by the fact that you can batch scan up to 6 frames. Anyway, just do the scans while you are doing something else with your computer, and the slowness of the scan is not as bad as you might think.

Slide and film holders are not easily available, so don't lose or break yours, and don't buy a unit without the slide and/or film holders because you can't use the scanner without them.

The lack of being able to use IR dust removal when scanning kodachrome has been mentioned. I have actually succeeded with this on some slides, but at the very least it is not reliable with kodachrome. In that case you would have to rely on other methods of dust removal, such as manually doing it in photoshop. I actually have another way of doing it, but I'm not prepared to talk about it here.

As others have mentioned, plan on running the scanner with Vuescan. It will cost you a little money, but it's worth it. It can be a little tricky to use however. Another option is Silverfast. Rumor has it that it is even trickier to use than Vuescan, and it's expensive.

No matter what scanner you use, be prepared for a steep learning curve before getting good results. At least that has been my experience.

Unless you have a pretty good digital camera, scanning your slides and negatives with something like a FS400US will probably have higher potential to give you the best results, at least if you are planning on scanning with a single shot of the camera. Taking close ups and stitching is another way to use a digital camera, and it has potential for higher quality than single shot scanning with a digital camera, but this method is very fiddley to use.

My suggestion? Stick with the FS4000US. It gives you the most quality for the money (especially if it's free.) You are only likely to beat it with a Nikon scanner, and maybe not even with that, or with certain high-specification Minolta scanners, but the high-specification Minolta scanners of the hard to find and some say the reliability is questionable.

Here's a link that shows some comparison scans between a canon fs4000us and a Nikon LS-9000. You have to scroll down the page a ways to see the comparison. https://www.photo.net/discuss/threa...yssey-nikon-super-coolscan-ls-9000-ed.495265/

When I look at the comparison scans what I see is that the canon scan was a little bit higher resolution but also a little noisier. However, the scans were quite similar in overall quality. Other tests might give different results.

And here's another comparison. https://www.photo.net/discuss/threa...00-ed-ice-and-canoscan-f4000us-part-2.496955/. I'd say the conclusions are similar in this case as well.
 
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tomfrh

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Thanks for that information. The canon results look pretty good. The difference with the Nikons appears negligible to me.
 
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The Nikon scan appears like more "blur" or noise reduction was added. That reduced the grainy effect in the sky but also lowered the sharpness of the lettering and the whole scan. The Canon scan left the sharpness in the adjustments and ignored blur edits.

This always raises a point about comparisons. Unless you know exactly what edits the person did, it's very hard to get a comparison that passes muster. If the editor added a little more blur to the Canon or reduced the amount of blur on the Nikon, they might look the same.
 

Les Sarile

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In terms of actual detail acheived, 4000dpi from FS4000 is the same as Coolscan V, 5000 & 9000. The main difference will come from film handling, scan times and dust and scratch removal quality.
 

brbo

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The Nikon scan appears like more "blur" or noise reduction was added. That reduced the grainy effect in the sky but also lowered the sharpness of the lettering and the whole scan. The Canon scan left the sharpness in the adjustments and ignored blur edits.

This always raises a point about comparisons. Unless you know exactly what edits the person did, it's very hard to get a comparison that passes muster. If the editor added a little more blur to the Canon or reduced the amount of blur on the Nikon, they might look the same.

Or, you could just trust that whoever made the comparison didn't do any edits that would make one unit looking better/worse than the other. Canon FS4000US does produce a bit harsher files (giving the impression that they are sharper but that doesn't mean they have more detail) than Nikons or hi-end Minoltas. It probably just means that the light source is a bit less diffused. The lens also has a bit more colour aberrations, Nikons and Minoltas in this resolution range are virtually free of them.
 
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[QUOTE="brbo, post: 2494954, member: 54801"]Or, you could just trust that whoever made the comparison didn't do any edits that would make one unit looking better/worse than the other. Canon FS4000US does produce a bit harsher files (giving the impression that they are sharper but that doesn't mean they have more detail) than Nikons or hi-end Minoltas. It probably just means that the light source is a bit less diffused. The lens also has a bit more colour aberrations, Nikons and Minoltas in this resolution range are virtually free of them.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying they deliberately made one look better than the other to hype one product or the other. My point is that all scan parameters are edited either by the scanner or the operator or both. Without knowing what those settings were, comparisons are hard to decipher.

Even in Auto scan mode, the scanner applies certain parameters, many that can be modified before the scan. These two samples indicate one had more blur applied than the other which had more sharpening applied. These appear to be settings that can be adjusted. It would be foolhardy for a viewer to assume the results are "standard" on either of them.
 

Kodachromeguy

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Slide and film holders are not easily available, so don't lose or break yours, and don't buy a unit without the slide and/or film holders because you can't use the scanner without them.
Have you found any after market supplier of the negative holders? Or will ones from any other brand fit? I have seen a number of the scanners for sale on ebay but they do not have their film holders.
 

alanrockwood

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The Nikon scan appears like more "blur" or noise reduction was added. That reduced the grainy effect in the sky but also lowered the sharpness of the lettering and the whole scan. The Canon scan left the sharpness in the adjustments and ignored blur edits.

This always raises a point about comparisons. Unless you know exactly what edits the person did, it's very hard to get a comparison that passes muster. If the editor added a little more blur to the Canon or reduced the amount of blur on the Nikon, they might look the same.
I am basing my estimate that the canon scan was slightly sharper on the fact that I can read the writing on the zoomed in portion of the tent top a little easier on the canon scan than on the nikon scan.

Also, I think the author indicated that there were no enhancements applied to the scans.
 
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