Canon T90: Cleaning the mirror magnet

[Andreas Thaler]

Now I was able to verify that contamination is the cause of the problem with the mirror magnet.

Larry Lyells, himself:

Canon T90 Repair Guide

From the Society of Photo-Technologists Journal

learncamerarepair.com

This means that the common fix with the magnetized screwdriver is no longer necessary, as this does not solve the problem or does not solve it permanently.

The sustainable solution is to remove the magnet and clean its three contact surfaces.

---

With this I close the topic.


+++

All information provided without guarantee and use at your own risk.

 

[moggi1964]

Now I was able to verify that contamination is the cause of the problem with the mirror magnet.

Larry Lyells, himself:

View attachment 375569

Canon T90 Repair Guide

From the Society of Photo-Technologists Journal

learncamerarepair.com

This means that the common fix with the magnetized screwdriver is no longer necessary, as this does not solve the problem or does not solve it permanently.

The sustainable solution is to remove the magnet and clean its three contact surfaces.

---

With this I close the topic.


+++

All information provided without guarantee and use at your own risk.

Andreas, I cleaned the contact surfaces on my T90 but it didn't prevent the issue when the camera had sat for a week. I have found a solution that has been working well:

I dropped a 2x2mm neodymium magnet (0.10 kg pull force) onto one of the contact surfaces and so far the camera hasn't had a flickering drive arrow or failed to fire.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

The T90 was my fifth camera, a masterful, if daring design, a real tour de force and conversation starter for its time. It introduced me to what Canon was tinkering away with that would later be the Canon EOS system, of which the T90 pioneered a great many design features.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Andreas, I cleaned the contact surfaces on my T90 but it didn't prevent the issue when the camera had sat for a week. I have found a solution that has been working well:

I dropped a 2x2mm neodymium magnet (0.10 kg pull force) onto one of the contact surfaces and so far the camera hasn't had a flickering drive arrow or failed to fire.

That's interesting, because I got several T90s up and running by cleaning the magnet.

I also find your solution very interesting.

Do you have any photos of it? How did you manage to attach the additional magnet?

Or did you only temporarily magnetize the original magnet with the neodymium one?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

The T90 was my fifth camera, a masterful, if daring design, a real tour de force and conversation starter for its time. It introduced me to what Canon was tinkering away with that would later be the Canon EOS system, of which the T90 pioneered a great many design features.

Yes, the T90 can still be overwhelming today with its many functions.

When the camera was introduced in the photography magazines in the mid-1980s, I at least couldn't keep up with what was suddenly technically possible.

The Minolta (Maxxum) 7000 in 1985 offered a foretaste.

That was a huge leap away from previous cameras, which were comparatively straightforward.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Yes, the T90 can still be overwhelming today with its many functions.

When the camera was introduced in the photography magazines in the mid-1980s, I at least couldn't keep up with what was suddenly technically possible.

The Minolta (Maxxum) 7000 in 1985 offered a foretaste.

That was a huge leap away from previous cameras, which were comparatively straightforward.

My only readily available recollection of one problem was battery life with the T90; this may have related to my use of lithium batteries at the time, and the camera's drive on H for rapid shooting of what my interest back then in the mid-1980s was — bird watching. Still, keeping the T90 fed with batteries (x4 AA) was cheaper than keeping today's power drive booster E1 (8 x AA!) for the Canon EOS 1N fresh and live doing the same thing!

 

[moggi1964]

That's interesting, because I got several T90s up and running by cleaning the magnet.

I also find your solution very interesting.

Do you have any photos of it? How did you manage to attach the additional magnet?

Or did you only temporarily magnetize the original magnet with the neodymium one?

I'll get a photo soon so you can see. The magnet stayed attached to the metal contact and will I guess continue to magnetise for quite some time.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I'll get a photo soon so you can see. The magnet stayed attached to the metal contact and will I guess continue to magnetise for quite some time.

As far as I understand, it is a permanent magnet whose magnetic field is neutralized by the flow of electricity and thus opens.

But that doesn't match what I observed when removing it.

As soon as the magnet is removed from its holder, the mirror folds upwards.

So the magnet opens. But no current can flow because the battery part was removed beforehand, any capacitors are discharged over time and the backup battery has other tasks and would not last long to supply power to the magnet.

So, as always, it is more complicated than expected

 

[moggi1964]

As far as I understand, it is a permanent magnet whose magnetic field is neutralized by the flow of electricity and thus opens.

But that doesn't match what I observed when removing it.

As soon as the magnet is removed from its holder, the mirror folds upwards.

So the magnet opens. But no current can flow because the battery part was removed beforehand, any capacitors are discharged over time and the backup battery has other tasks and would not last long to supply power to the magnet.

So, as always, it is more complicated than expected

The little bit of debris on the battery is glue from an earlier attempt.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

The little bit of debris on the battery is glue from an earlier attempt.

View attachment 385771 View attachment 385770

How do you explain your solution?

Does it give you an idea of how the magnet works?

 

[moggi1964]

How do you explain your solution?

Does it give you an idea of how the magnet works?

No idea!

But I can sell you the unobtanium magnets for £1000 each if you are interested

 

[ic-racer]

View attachment 373516



I cannot determine whether all parts are magnetic or just one or two.

In any case, when current flows through the coils, a magnetic field is created that opens or closes the contact. This depends on the circuit of the magnet, which I do not know.

Coils like this usually run on DC. Hooking them to an appropriate battery or power supply should make them stick to metal.

One way to separate good from bad is to see how strong they are with a given voltage and test the resistance of the coil between good and bad ones.

Yes difficult, but not impossible to repair these by re-windiding or finding the break in the wire.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Coils like this usually run on DC. Hooking them to an appropriate battery or power supply should make them stick to metal.

One way to separate good from bad is to see how strong they are with a given voltage and test the resistance of the coil between good and bad ones.

Yes difficult, but not impossible to repair these by re-windiding or finding the break in the wire.

Here I had a mirror magnet for the T90 with a broken winding. Fixing it requires more than a steady hand.

I'll summarize what I think I know:

On the left are the connections, i.e. when current flows through the winding (coil), a magnetic field is built up that counteracts that of a permanent magnet (armature) and cancels it out. Then the armature is released and with it a switching contact.

So it is an electromagnet like in the video you show.

The question is whether the current flows through both windings or whether - as with a transformer - there is induction that transfers voltage from one coil to the other via a magnetic field, possibly with a voltage difference. There are nice formulas for this in electrical engineering.

How it all fits together, whether it happens like this or differently, I can't say.

I only know from experience that the armature is released as soon as the electromagnet with its two coils is removed from the camera chassis. That could mean that the permanent magnet is attached to the chassis.

Maybe someone here can say more about it.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

In-depth information about the technology of the Canon T90 can be found on this site (Italian), which I have already presented here:

La Canon T90

La canon T90, l'ultima ammiraglia FD. Febbraio 1986, Canon lancia sul mercato la T90: era estremamente innovativa e nel cont...

sistemacanonfd.blogspot.com

Regarding the magnets, see these comments (Google Translate):

Today, however, this machine can present several problems:

• Residual magnetization of the curtain release anchors due to prolonged inactive contact with the solenoid's permanent magnets. (the infamous EEE error).
• Residual magnetization of the mirror release anchor due to prolonged contact with the solenoid's permanent magnets due to inactivity. (This error is manifested by the flashing of the shutter release mode arrow and does not allow the shutter to be released.)

La Canon T90

La canon T90, l'ultima ammiraglia FD. Febbraio 1986, Canon lancia sul mercato la T90: era estremamente innovativa e nel cont...

sistemacanonfd-blogspot-com.translate.goog

(Google Translate)


Based on this explanation, I understand that both coils are attached to a permanent magnet that holds the armature as a switching contact.

If current flows through the coils, a magnetic field is built up that cancels out the magnetic field of the permanent magnet and thus releases the armature.

However, this does not explain my observation that the armature is released even when I remove the unit with the coils from the chassis (mirror folds up).

This can only mean that the permanent magnet is attached to the chassis (see my comments above).

---

In any case, for the repair only reliable solutions come into consideration if the mirror does not trigger (flashing arrow in the T90 display).

• So far I have been successful with cleaning the contact surfaces of the armature and permanent magnet (?),
• @moggi1964 shows a solution with additional magnets,
• and the fix with a magnetized screwdriver that you run around the unit is the well-known one.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

No idea!

But I can sell you the unobtanium magnets for £1000 each if you are interested

Does this price also include the transfer of the patents?

 

[moggi1964]

Does this price also include the transfer of the patents?

As if! I need to top up my pension

 

[moggi1964]

In-depth information about the technology of the Canon T90 can be found on this site (Italian), which I have already presented here:

La Canon T90

La canon T90, l'ultima ammiraglia FD. Febbraio 1986, Canon lancia sul mercato la T90: era estremamente innovativa e nel cont...

sistemacanonfd.blogspot.com

Regarding the magnets, see these comments (Google Translate):



View attachment 385820

La Canon T90

La canon T90, l'ultima ammiraglia FD. Febbraio 1986, Canon lancia sul mercato la T90: era estremamente innovativa e nel cont...

sistemacanonfd-blogspot-com.translate.goog

(Google Translate)


Based on this explanation, I understand that both coils are attached to a permanent magnet that holds the armature as a switching contact.

If current flows through the coils, a magnetic field is built up that cancels out the magnetic field of the permanent magnet and thus releases the armature.

However, this does not explain my observation that the armature is released even when I remove the unit with the coils from the chassis (mirror folds up).

This can only mean that the permanent magnet is attached to the chassis (see my comments above).

---

In any case, for the repair only reliable solutions come into consideration if the mirror does not trigger (flashing arrow in the T90 display).

• So far I have been successful with cleaning the contact surfaces of the armature and permanent magnet (?),
• @moggi1964 shows a solution with additional magnets,
• and the fix with a magnetized screwdriver that you run around the unit is the well-known one.

This is wonderful work, Andreas. Following your various journeys inside cameras is fascinating and truly enjoyable.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

This is wonderful work, Andreas. Following your various journeys inside cameras is fascinating and truly enjoyable.

Thank you, that's very nice!

But it's time to bring something new again, I'm just looking in my box of repair candidates...

 

[moggi1964]

Thought the T90 folks might find this of interest. I enjoyed it.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Thought the T90 folks might find this of interest. I enjoyed it.

Enchanting!

 

[Fisytails]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I bought a "broken" T90 cheap in Japan 2 days ago. It shot 5 frames in the store when i put in batteries and then died with the "flashing cursor" problem. I bought it anyways and since then i have been on a hours long research spree and the magnet technique only got me another 2 frames until it died again. This seems to finally clear up that it is just the gunk and cleaning it should fix that camera for me. Unfortunately i got stuck on the disassembly part because my screwdriver isn't long enough to reach the two hidden screws. I just ordered one that should arrive in two days so i can continue your super well explained process. Once again thanks for sharing this, otherwise i would have given up.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I bought a "broken" T90 cheap in Japan 2 days ago. It shot 5 frames in the store when i put in batteries and then died with the "flashing cursor" problem. I bought it anyways and since then i have been on a hours long research spree and the magnet technique only got me another 2 frames until it died again. This seems to finally clear up that it is just the gunk and cleaning it should fix that camera for me. Unfortunately i got stuck on the disassembly part because my screwdriver isn't long enough to reach the two hidden screws. I just ordered one that should arrive in two days so i can continue your super well explained process. Once again thanks for sharing this, otherwise i would have given up.

Great! Thanks for letting us know!

Please keep us updated.

Good luck!

 

[Andreas Thaler]

The screw holding the magnet is sealed and often difficult to remove.

Making it even more difficult is that the flathead screwdriver can only be used at an angle.

But the structure can withstand pressure, so don't give up; the screw is very short.

Threading the magnet in is a test of patience, but it always works.

I now use benzine to clean the magnet's contact surfaces.

Let me know if you need help.

 

[Fisytails]

Managed to remove the bottom but am strugglinhh with the screw. I'm scared of bending the red circle part as well as the structure with the screw, it bends slightly backwards if I apply pressure on the screw. But thanks for the tips I'll manage it eventually hopefully!

-------

Interlude: Thanks to the Viewfinder tutorial yesterday I managed to get rid of the fungus this camera used to have!

 

[Andreas Thaler]

View attachment 398885

Managed to remove the bottom but am strugglinhh with the screw. I'm scared of bending the red circle part as well as the structure with the screw, it bends slightly backwards if I apply pressure on the screw. But thanks for the tips I'll manage it eventually hopefully!

The structure can withstand this. Pressure and constant rotation to the left.

The screwdriver does not have to be vertical.

-------

Interlude: Thanks to the Viewfinder tutorial yesterday I managed to get rid of the fungus this camera used to have!

View attachment 398886
View attachment 398887

Great, I'm glad it worked for you!