Can I build a business doing B+W portraits only?

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Ciarin, I've been trying to look at your website, but can't get past your splash page. There don't appear to be any clickable links, and it doesn't redirect anywhere? I'm on Safari as my browser, if that helps.

- CJ

 

[Solarize]

Cheryl, I have noticed that with you, and I am sure it works very well. As you say, you must work with something that suits you individually and your market. I have played with so many ideas, but was eventually sold on the idea of projection because it is such a useful means of demonstrating - of not having to imagine how something would look, but actually being able to see it. In this instance I've used the word 'crazy' not as an empirical 'nothing else works' point of view, but that we should be open to whatever tools we have at our desposal, to help a client make an informed decision about what it is they want.

I would be very curious to hear a little more about your methods though Cheryl, if you would care to share? I go through framing options, print styles, sizes, how it could be hung and so on, but could not imagine trying to articulate all that with a simple contact sheet.

 

[resummerfield]

Ciarin, I've been trying to look at your website, but can't get past your splash page. There don't appear to be any clickable links, and it doesn't redirect anywhere? I'm on Safari as my browser, if that helps.

- CJ

The website opens fine on my Mac with Firefox. And Ciaran, you have a wonderful site!

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

I would be very curious to hear a little more about your methods though Cheryl, if you would care to share? I go through framing options, print styles, sizes, how it could be hung and so on, but could not imagine trying to articulate all that with a simple contact sheet.

I have 4x6 proofs printed for my clients to review. I sit down with them and walk them through the images, taking note of which images impact them the most. If I haven't already done so, I find out what, if anything, they have in mind to do with the images. I'll then put together suggestions of which image(s) I think will be the most effective, and tell the clients which size(s) would look most at home in the space we've selected. I don't give matting and framing options; rather, I'll simply tell them how I feel the print would look best, and they'll let me know if they feel differently. (They generally go with whatever I've recommended. I keep these things very simple.) I usually also do a coffee table book for each client, which makes my life a lot easier -- that way, the clients don't have to decide which images they'll never see again.

I would never show a client a contact sheet. That would generally require me to show EVERY image from a session, which I would never do, and in a format too small to really see.

 

[Solarize]

Ciarin, I've been trying to look at your website, but can't get past your splash page. There don't appear to be any clickable links, and it doesn't redirect anywhere? I'm on Safari as my browser, if that helps.

- CJ

Haha, technology has outdone me - damn flash! I should take a simpler approach like yourself

The link seems to be working for me (IE), but thanks for pointing that out. If anyone else is prepared to visit www.clportraits.co.uk and let me know of any problems, their help would be much appreciated. Please send a pm, I don't want to hijak the thread too much!

Gary, we should keep in touch. I agree with exhibitions in the right places. If we are selling ourselves based on the quality of our prints, then we must have somewhere for people to see them - especially when operating without a studio. I'm toying with the idea of appraching a few estate agents of commercial property. I live in an affluent borough where a number of high street shops sit unoccupied (high rates). Rather than white washed windows, I am going to pitch for some space to hang work. The couple of hundred it might cost will be money better spent, than the few thousand it would cost to advertise in a magazine.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Ciarin, I opened your site on my iMac, and it's fine. The problem is that my laptop screen was too small, which bumped all the links off the page with no scroll bar to make them viewable. So you should be fine except on smaller laptop screens.

- CJ

 

[jamesgignac]

Keeping it real

"I don't feel like there's any focus and I really need to work on marketing, but I'm kind of stuck for ideas because the only thing I really want to do is b+w work, and I feel like marketing myself as an 'everything' photographer just isn't working."

I'm sure this has already been mentioned but you seem to know your answer as you stated it to us in your post. I think the only way anyone can succeed in this line of work is to pursue their passions because it's only then that we truly place profound, personal importance on our work, develop our skill through the joy of experiment, and devote our efforts with strong, significant fervour. If one has to drag their feet to be productive the work is going to suffer and besides that you're not enjoying it, and isn't that the point? We can all pick up a second clerical job if all we're after is the money. And the money will come anyhow - if you love what you do and you keep yourself running on the fire of self-content in your developing skill then you will be confident and knowledgeable enough to propel the results of your hard work into any market you wish. The world's a lot smaller these days after all.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion, and hopefully it's already been expressed by somebody else here. Best of luck with your pursuits and stay true to your feelings - if you know something's not right for you don't do it you'll just be jeopardizing your own self-assuredness.

 

[Solarize]

Cheryl, that seems like such a nice, tactile way of going through the process. More naturally intimate that blasting them with a slideshow. I suppose much of your success comes from really knowing what your clients are about, and equally or more so, them knowing you and trusting your judgment. Perhaps my approach would be different if I had benn doing this for longer, and maybe it will change in time. I don't feel that I need push anything or have to hide behind a computer, but it does help me articulate my thoughts more and help clients see what they are getting.

Just a few points... the coffee table book. Are you selling that or is it part of a package/a precondition of buying some framed prints? And the framing... do you present much by way of mouldings/wood samples, or are you keeping things simple there?

It's just that I find myself carting albums, chevrons, computers and a whole lot of nonsense to viewings. It works, but is quite a pain. Hearing how others go about things helps me re-evaluate my own processes.

Thanks.

The website opens fine on my Mac with Firefox. And Ciaran, you have a wonderful site!

Thank you very much!

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

I'm currently selling coffee table books independently of the print order. They sell themselves, really, and it's a rare client who doesn't buy at least one. They begin at $1500 US for a 10x10 book. I actually don't bring any samples in terms of framing -- no mattes, no wood samples, no moldings. As I always tell my client, the last thing you want people focusing on is the frame, so I use very simple moldings. The print knows how it wants to look. I've never had any client request samples after I phrase things that way.

The only things I currently bring with me to a proof session are the proofs, paperwork, a calculator, a sample coffee table book, and a measuring tape. All fits neatly into one little case. Simplicity.

- CJ

 

[Solarize]

Thanks for the info, and an interesting take on the framing front. Keeps things very stress free.

Lovin' the music. It has a very similar feel to your photography!

Cheers,
Ciaran

 

[wrench]

wow, lots of good food for though here, thank you everyone for your ideas. Looking back over my sales last year, my b+w clients spent about $500 or more whereas my color clients spent an average of $200, and I had about equal amounts of both. I'm thinking that if I can successfully sell b+w, and can turn about 50% of the color clients into b+w clients, then I'd be making just as much money with fewer expenses. I think it can work, but I guess only time will tell. So I guess now my job is to figure out how to market it, which of course is not my forte, but you all have given me some good ideas. For now the obvious thing would be to take down all the color photos on my walls and just plaster my studio with big beautiful b+w prints. Thanks for all the input.
Best, Laura

 

[removed account4]

I'm currently selling coffee table books independently of the print order. They sell themselves, really, and it's a rare client who doesn't buy at least one. They begin at $1500 US for a 10x10 book. I actually don't bring any samples in terms of framing -- no mattes, no wood samples, no moldings. As I always tell my client, the last thing you want people focusing on is the frame, so I use very simple moldings. The print knows how it wants to look. I've never had any client request samples after I phrase things that way.

The only things I currently bring with me to a proof session are the proofs, paperwork, a calculator, a sample coffee table book, and a measuring tape. All fits neatly into one little case. Simplicity.

- CJ

you said it cheryl!
the whole 1-or 2-or 3 off book market is through the roof.
i have a commercial lab that i use who makes beautiful books
(when i am not hand stitching them myself) ..

john

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Have any contributors or readers of this thread experimented with producing hand made silver gelatin or alternative process print books / collections?

Tom.

 

[BetterSense]

I had the same question as the above poster. I suppose if photos can be printed, they can be stitched together into a book.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Have any contributors or readers of this thread experimented with producing hand made silver gelatin or alternative process print books / collections?

Tom.

I have not, for the simple reason that it would be cost prohibitive. My clients aren't afraid to shell out a good amount of money, but these books would be SO expensive that it wouldn't make sense for me in terms of profit. I thought about this several years ago, but the estimated cost could never have been worth the time and expense for me.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

I had the same question as the above poster. I suppose if photos can be printed, they can be stitched together into a book.

It's not an issue of stitching them together. It's more an issue of what to mount them on that CAN be stitched together in a practical and lasting fashion.

 

[Gary Holliday]

Gary, we should keep in touch. I agree with exhibitions in the right places. If we are selling ourselves based on the quality of our prints, then we must have somewhere for people to see them - especially when operating without a studio. I'm toying with the idea of appraching a few estate agents of commercial property. I live in an affluent borough where a number of high street shops sit unoccupied (high rates). Rather than white washed windows, I am going to pitch for some space to hang work. The couple of hundred it might cost will be money better spent, than the few thousand it would cost to advertise in a magazine.

I had one of the shopping centres approach me yesterday and I'm waiting for them to get back to me, but it might be an idea to share some exhibition space to share costs?..I'll see what happens first.

The vacant shop windows are a great idea. I remember a local chemist left some space in his window for local artists to sell work and I had plans to do the same in my dad's old shop, but that closed down during the previous recession!

I don't bother about frames, I had considered using cheap Neilson frames for presenting to the client, but I just mat the print and present it in a black print box. Customers enjoy opening the box and seeing the print for the first time. Glass can spoil the look of the print and the boxes cost £10-15. Professional and classy.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Yes, Gary, but delivering framed prints means the prints actually get onto the walls. My clients typicallly have more money than time, so it makes sense for me to do the framing and collect some additional profit from it. Before I started doing framing, I'd see a client a year after a session and find last year's prints still sitting in the boxes in which they were delivered. Hard to get client referrals when the evidence of my work is sitting in a box.

- CJ

 

[Gary Holliday]

Those clients would have you mounting the frame on the wall also, do you have a drill in that case of yours? There is so much work involved doing all this as it is, but you have a point.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Gary, yes, I have also drawn diagrams for more complicated wall designs. The trade off is that I charge nearly 300% of the cost of framing, and it's worthwhile to the client because the prints are set to go. Everyone is happy. There is very little work for me involved in framing. I have one framer, standard frame costs, and two standard framing configurations that I use. Very little time and energy involved for me.

 

[removed account4]

Have any contributors or readers of this thread experimented with producing hand made silver gelatin or alternative process print books / collections?

Tom.

yes tom

i have made around 20 books ( give or take a few ).
none have been portrait or wedding books ..
they are NOT hard to make, and just take time
effort and patience. my great grandparents got this tiny
little book of jewel prints from their wedding photographer
i think it says "our wedding" on the cover ...it is beautiful!
it wouldn't be hard to make one of those -
either japanese bound or signature bound ...
the hardest part of book binding is waiting for the glue to dry!

 

[removed account4]

I have not, for the simple reason that it would be cost prohibitive. My clients aren't afraid to shell out a good amount of money, but these books would be SO expensive that it wouldn't make sense for me in terms of profit. I thought about this several years ago, but the estimated cost could never have been worth the time and expense for me.

cheryl

if you make them yourself, they take a few hours to get everything assembled
time for the glue to dry ( cover / end papers ) and less time than you think to stitch.

john

 

[markbarendt]

I think one thing that has been missed in this conversation is building patience into the sales process. What I mean by that is that most of us want to get clients in the door and straight in front of the camera. Sure we've sold a sitting but we need to know where we are going before we start shooting.

If the client is trying to fill a 48 x 72 spot we might want to break out the RB or a 4x5 instead of the FM2 we we're thing about using. We might and they might want to prepare a bit better if the print will be huge.

If the client is wanting a 48 x 72 AND YOU DON'T KNOW THAT; you and the client are in for a disappointment. If all the client wants is a set of 4x6 proof prints from the roll you shot you need to decide if that client is worth even getting the camera out for.

Also if we know where we are going before the shoot we don't need the bait and switch of the slide show to up sell, the only decisions after the shoot are about content.

In the 48 x 72 example we might want print our two or three best shots at 11x14 or even 16x20 as proofs and give the client the choice of one of those poses.

There's no reason to show the client a proof you don't want to print or that won't work at the size the client wants.

 

[nyoung]

I'm really not happy with my business as it stands right now, it's just all over the place. I don't feel like there's any focus and I really need to work on marketing, but I'm kind of stuck for ideas because the only thing I really want to do is b+w work, and I feel like marketing myself as an 'everything' photographer just isn't working.
Best, Laura

I agree almost 100 percent with Mark B. above. You must do the work you like to do best in order to succeed.

Success comes from commitment and focus. The part of you that says you feel stuck and out-of-focus is telling you the truth.

As far as marketing, the most powerful thing you can do IMHO in a small town is get some big B&W prints for your front windows - assuming you have some sort of storefront. You need some photos that make people stop and say "I wish I looked like that."

As far as starting in "bad economic times" remember the the 1930s are now remembered as a golden age in art, invention and industrial design - precisely, I think, because hard times concentrate one's energies.

A lot of photography studios were founded and prospered during that time as well.

I'm currently doing a lot of oral history and kind of work with my mother-in-law who rode out "The Great Depression" in the panhandle of Oklahoma. Curiously, no matter how poor they were, it seems from the surviving evidence, they always found money for yearly family and individual portraits.

If your work is good enough, the clients will be there and be willing to pay

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

I think one thing that has been missed in this conversation is building patience into the sales process. What I mean by that is that most of us want to get clients in the door and straight in front of the camera. Sure we've sold a sitting but we need to know where we are going before we start shooting.

If the client is trying to fill a 48 x 72 spot we might want to break out the RB or a 4x5 instead of the FM2 we we're thing about using. We might and they might want to prepare a bit better if the print will be huge.

If the client is wanting a 48 x 72 AND YOU DON'T KNOW THAT; you and the client are in for a disappointment. If all the client wants is a set of 4x6 proof prints from the roll you shot you need to decide if that client is worth even getting the camera out for.

Also if we know where we are going before the shoot we don't need the bait and switch of the slide show to up sell, the only decisions after the shoot are about content.

In the 48 x 72 example we might want print our two or three best shots at 11x14 or even 16x20 as proofs and give the client the choice of one of those poses.

There's no reason to show the client a proof you don't want to print or that won't work at the size the client wants.

My website pre-qualifies potential clients very effectively; the rest of that info is obtained in about five minutes on the phone. But yes, it is important to know what the client is looking for.

John, the book itself may not take too much time and effort (I don't know because I haven't done one) but there's also all the printing and spotting that goes into it. The thought of printing, flattening, and spotting that many images depresses me. LOL. Time is money, and unfortunately I am very short on attention and patience. For me, the coffee table book is the way to go, and I enjoy doing them.