Can I build a business doing B+W portraits only?

[TobiasK]

I think it could be argued that a film based work flow is econmically more efficient during hard economic times. If you run a portrait studio with two shiny Eos 5d MkII's thoses cameras are going to depreciate at the same rate no matter how busy or quiet you are (it could be argued that they will depreciate faster in a bad economic climate as second hand prices tank). With a film workflow you can pretty much assume that your equipment has depreciated pretty much as far as it will go so your only workflow cost would be film and developing. That has the advantage that if you aren't working you aren't buying film so in quiet times some of your costs go down in a way they won't with a digital camera. Of course you can get round this by using a digital camera for longer before you upgrade, but of course with digital all your equipment has to be new and shiny so you give off the sweet sell of success to your clients, so the pressure to upgrade is higher. Add in the fact that it's easier to bill a client for film and processing than it is for depreciation, and you may find that the figures for a black and white studio are better in the medium term than for a digital workflow unless you have a very high volume of work.

 

[markbarendt]

My website pre-qualifies potential clients very effectively; the rest of that info is obtained in about five minutes on the phone. But yes, it is important to know what the client is looking for.

Cheryl, I'm not talking about 5 minutes up front. I'm actually suggesting the possibility of commissioning the entire sale and taking the money completely up front. Frames, print sizes, absolutely everything.

The only question left at proofing is "do you like the one with your chin to the left or to the right better?" and the only reasons for that question is to keep the customer engaged and make them feel like they picked the final image.

If I had my druthers I wouldn't even have a proofing session, I'd contract, shoot, and deliver my pick.

How many painters create proofs? Wouldn't it be nice to be in that category?

 

[Solarize]

So many interesting points,

Tom: I wouldn't do handbound books for the same reasons as Cheryl. Charge as much as you like, I can just see them taking way too long to make. When I first played with the idea of getting this set up, I thought it would be fantastic to go on some sort of binding course. The more I did the numbers, the more realistic I've become. It would do my head in printing and stitching book after book, altough I am quite sure the results would be very nice.

Hand printing for an album is pain enough. Try dodging and burning those little 2.5x2.5 squares. It is quite limiting I am finding, and ultimately will require that A: I print digitally, or B: I go with less of the smaller images and fill it with the big. I am still torn. I'm using Seldex albums from the Spicer range, like Gary I believe. Cheryl, are you outputting the albums digitally then?

Tom, we met at the Ilford tour before last. I was with my Grandad on that one and we spoke about bronica's .... you still got yours?

Mark: Selling in advance is a nice idea, and so I've devised a number of pay-up-front collections that incorporate prints and albums at discount. I still think most people want to see their own shots though, before making any decision.

Questions before the session establish what they are after. If it is a single large print I am going to use the MF wherever possible. An album, then a zoom lens on one 35mm is the usual, with a quick prime on the second body.

Tobias: I think you are quite right. I can print and frame myself to save on the outsourcing. If things get busy I can send it out.

Gary: A shared space some time could work wonders - especially if there is a different angle on the services we might be pushing. I'm just thinking about the best way to approach these estate agents. Looking at annual rates of around £90K!! I'm not sure how much to offer up for a little window space on the empty shops. I'm gonna start with free and see where I end up!

I was going to do unframed prints, but the profit margins are high if you can do it yourself. I've put together a decent framing setup for around £750. I also think there is a greater inherent value of a weighty, larger item over the loose print. That said, a nice mat and presentation box probably works in similar way.

I will provide a measured wire cord for hanging, but I'm not taking a hammer and hook to any wall but my own

Ciaran

 

[msdemanche]

You also should think about how your black and white work can be the most unique. People still pay painters to make a painted portrait, and feel that what many of those are, are just getting hand painted copies of photos. (please no hate mail from artists). The idea is to give the customer something that is unique, so think about the old world of hand coloring in addition to black and white. Just a thought, I am not the best at marketing, I have a gallery that takes care of my work, but as a professor that has to council students on what they will do with themselves after their special degree in photography, I try to tell them to never be Sear, or Lifetouch or the Portrait People, or etc. If you are near Santa Fe,
Taos, etc. where there is a group of folks with disposable income, go for it.
Michel

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Cheryl, I'm not talking about 5 minutes up front. I'm actually suggesting the possibility of commissioning the entire sale and taking the money completely up front. Frames, print sizes, absolutely everything.

The only question left at proofing is "do you like the one with your chin to the left or to the right better?" and the only reasons for that question is to keep the customer engaged and make them feel like they picked the final image.

If I had my druthers I wouldn't even have a proofing session, I'd contract, shoot, and deliver my pick.

How many painters create proofs? Wouldn't it be nice to be in that category?

Yes, I like the concept of being seen as an artist rather than a photographer (although I really feel most of my clients see me more as an artist than anything.)

The problem for me with doing things the way you suggest is that I would lose a great deal of money. My clients love the proof session, and I love watching them tear up as they look through the images. It's a rare client who doesn't end up spending a LOT more than they originally planned to.

Really, though, it depends on the style of portraiture you do. If you're doing formal and/or traditional shots, then yes, I can see where it would be preferable to do as you've suggested.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

You also should think about how your black and white work can be the most unique. People still pay painters to make a painted portrait, and feel that what many of those are, are just getting hand painted copies of photos. (please no hate mail from artists). The idea is to give the customer something that is unique, so think about the old world of hand coloring in addition to black and white. Just a thought, I am not the best at marketing, I have a gallery that takes care of my work, but as a professor that has to council students on what they will do with themselves after their special degree in photography, I try to tell them to never be Sear, or Lifetouch or the Portrait People, or etc. If you are near Santa Fe,
Taos, etc. where there is a group of folks with disposable income, go for it.
Michel

Michel, yes. It's important to have a unique and identifiable style in order to command the rates that provide a good income. If our work doesn't stand out to the client, there's no reason not to go to the cheaper photographer down the street.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Ciaran, I use ACI to print my books. I use the templates in their software to do simple layouts in order to tell the client's story as effectively as possible, hit the upload button, and get the books via UPS usually within a week. The purist in me loves the idea of a hand-printed, hand-bound book, but it's just not at all practical for what I do. The ACI books are beautiful, the customer service is top-notch, and my clients love them.

 

[Mike Crawford]

My clients love the proof session, and I love watching them tear up as they look through the images. It's a rare client who doesn't end up spending a LOT more than they originally planned to.

We used to print for a photographer years ago who would do the complete works. Slide programme with some tasteful (?) Enya music playing. Mum gets tearfull, Dad gets the cheque book out.

Result!

 

[markbarendt]

Really, though, it depends on the style of portraiture you do. If you're doing formal and/or traditional shots, then yes, I can see where it would be preferable to do as you've suggested.

Actually I don't think it has anything to do with the genre of work or style of shooting.

It's a choice of workflow and marketing style and finding what a photographer is good at and deciding what they are willing to do.

It's also a choice about the finished product someone is trying to sell, i.e. am I trying to sell a variety of duplications (adding on coffee cups and various dupes) or one original? (That original could be a single print or a hand-made album, doesn't matter.)

For me (and the model I'm working toward) if the client wants a second anything that's fine but they need to know that each print will be different because each is done by hand and that it commands the same price of the first (sorry no dupes or coffee cups).

The other issue I have with the slide show workflow is that essentially requires reversal processing and a projector(or 2 projectors if you shoot say 35mm and MF) OR scanning and using a F#^*^@ computer.

Pardon my vulgarity, it's only there to make the point perfectly clear that digital is not part of the workflow I'm willing to use.

B&W reversal is absolutely workable and Ilfochromes truly special. That is a reasonable alternative but it's the hard and expensive way to get a truly special B&W print.

I'm not suggesting that you change your business plan Cheryl, just that slideshows may not fit the strengths of a truly analog workflow.

 

[wrench]

Looking back, I think that I originally posted this question in an attempt to clarify and simplify my workflow. And like you Mark, I want to go as completely analog as possible. But there comes a point where digital can be useful; do you have a website that you use as a marketing tool? I do, it sucks at the moment but there are two ways of getting photos up there. 1) using a digicam, NOT preferable; and 2) scanning negatives. So, while I'm busy scanning just the best of the best, I might as well use those files to make quick 4x6 inkjet proofs, and I could also use them for a slideshow if I wanted to. I'm not sure that I would actually employ all of these things, but they are options at virtually no additional effort to the marketing work I would already be doing.

I'm curious, Cheryl, is this an approximation of how you work? Or do you make your proofs in the darkroom? Maybe it's just the way mine is set up right now, but I can't think of an easy way to make a whole set of proofs.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

My workflow (roughly):

- Talk with client about what they're looking for.
- Do the session, all medium and occasionally large format film.
- Develop the film myself.
- Drop the uncut films to the lab (within walking distance of my house) to scan the negs and print 4x6 proofs.
- Meet with the client for the proof session.
- Make prints / books according to the clients order.
- Deliver everything to the client in person so I can enjoy them enjoying my work.

Obviously when I travel to do sessions, I can't meet with the client for the proof session in person, so I do them via online galleries. I do maintain a website (several, actually) and it's highly effective in terms of getting clients.

Mark, I don't do any slideshow projecting, as I mentioned before. It's not my thing.

I do believe, though, that shooting style DOES have an impact on marketing and proofing style. I tend to shoot stories in my portrait session, so there's a chronological progression. That means that in addition to the images that would make great wall portraits, there are also series of images that work together. That means a whole lot more possibilities in terms of ordering and displaying the images. My work doesn't fit nearly into the "choose the image for the client with no proof session" model. I would absolutely lose money.

- CJ

 

[markbarendt]

Looking back, I think that I originally posted this question in an attempt to clarify and simplify my workflow. And like you Mark, I want to go as completely analog as possible. But there comes a point where digital can be useful; do you have a website that you use as a marketing tool?

The real question is "will a web site really work for me and my prospects?" I'm working on one a bit here and there but it's not a priority. The real problem is that web sites don't sell by themselves, they require promotion just to get traffic so they can only provide a supporting roll in a larger marketing plan.

I've actually found that listing providers like the local printed wedding guides actually work better as "passive" advertising and they generally provide a web listing where you ca put photos. The magic is that they promote their website which in turn gets your name in front of prospects.

I'm close to having my "new" film based products, the processes, the pricing, and the marketing plan defined. The plan doesn't use a website, it uses listings, referrals, active personal contact, and prints.

I have 12-15 families picked out that will get the prototype and be the referral seeds.

The biggest challenge I envision is going to be getting, managing, maintaining, and working the referrals. I fully expect this to take 60-80% of the time I spend on my business in the first couple years.

I do, it sucks at the moment but there are two ways of getting photos up there. 1) using a digicam, NOT preferable; and 2) scanning negatives.

You can also scan the proof prints.

As for using the digicam to display your work maybe think a bit different. Show the context, i.e. your work on a clients wall. Get people thinking about where they will be putting the prints.

So, while I'm busy scanning just the best of the best, I might as well use those files to make quick 4x6 inkjet proofs, and I could also use them for a slideshow if I wanted to. I'm not sure that I would actually employ all of these things, but they are options at virtually no additional effort to the marketing work I would already be doing.

Do you carry a 4x6 brag-book mini-portfolio to show everybody you bump into?

 

[markbarendt]

Mark, I don't do any slideshow projecting, as I mentioned before. It's not my thing.

My bad, sorry, I missed that!

I do believe, though, that shooting style DOES have an impact on marketing and proofing style. I tend to shoot stories in my portrait session, so there's a chronological progression. That means that in addition to the images that would make great wall portraits, there are also series of images that work together. That means a whole lot more possibilities in terms of ordering and displaying the images. My work doesn't fit nearly into the "choose the image for the client with no proof session" model. I would absolutely lose money.

- CJ

I do see your point.

 

[wrench]

Do you carry a 4x6 brag-book mini-portfolio to show everybody you bump into?

Actually, I don't at the moment, but I ran into a high school classmate last week and it occurred to me that it would be a good idea to have one. So, along with some other things, it's in the works.

I think a website is pretty effective in some ways. My web address is on my business card, so if people want to see photos in addition to what's on the card, they can go have a look. I don't expect the website alone to get clients, but it is a place to showcase my work in addition to my own studio, various restaurants around town, and of course my business cards.

 

[markbarendt]

I think a website is pretty effective in some ways. My web address is on my business card, so if people want to see photos in addition to what's on the card, they can go have a look. I don't expect the website alone to get clients, but it is a place to showcase my work in addition to my own studio, various restaurants around town, and of course my business cards.

Flickr can provide the showcase way cheap and easy. SmugMug gets fancier for a few bucks more.

The biggest function of a website for me is just a way to find me.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Flickr can provide the showcase way cheap and easy. SmugMug gets fancier for a few bucks more.

The biggest function of a website for me is just a way to find me.

I do have a website and try to make it the best I know how. That because my website is very useful in pre-qualifying potential clients and educating them in how I work. It explains that I am not a "say cheese" photographer, that I like to work in the subject's environment, that I have a darker look to my work, and that I'm high-end (meaning expensive). All that and more. Because of how I've worked my site, I rarely get clients who aren't a good fit for my style.

I would not advise using Flikr if you're trying to gather a clientele who will see you as an artist and spend a lot of money on portraits. Websites these days are cheap and easy to do, and will very much influence how potential clients see you and your work.

- CJ

 

[argentic]

I'm really not happy with my business as it stands right now, it's just all over the place. I don't feel like there's any focus and I really need to work on marketing, but I'm kind of stuck for ideas because the only thing I really want to do is b+w work, and I feel like marketing myself as an 'everything' photographer just isn't working. I happen to be the only photographer in a very isolated are with a relatively small population which seems to work both for and against me. People seem to think that my price is high (I start at $135), but they don't want to go 2 hours away to Sears who they're comparing me to. My feeling is that if I market myself as something totally different, then people will quit with the comparisons, but my potential market might shrink if I'm only doing b+w. So I guess I'm looking for advice about whether this is just crazy, or an idea worth pursuing. Thanks for you help.
Best, Laura

First start marketing yourself as a high end B&W photographer. Be different from the "everything goes" photographers. And don't even try to compete with Sears etc.

Don't limit yourself to the small communities where you live. High end photography needs a larger audience. Thus, like Cheryl says, a website can be a very effective means to attract (or select) the right customers for your business. I get my clients almost exclusively through my website.

Don't see marketing as a way to force your product upon people. See it as a service to them. Because you are offering them a beautiful product which can make them happy for years to come. But they cannot become your happy customers if they don't even know you exist! Marketing doesn't have to be aggressive. It has to be seductive. It has to make them feel (not think) "I want that too". In this thread several useful suggestions for self-marketing have been mentioned.

Once you get enough customers for B&W, you can slowly draw out of the "everything goes" business. Give yourself a time schudele for this. Unless your business isn't very big yet, in which case you would do better profiling yourself as an exclusive B&W photographer right away.

Good luck.

 

[sarahfoto]

It's a great idea Laura, if it is something you really want you can make it work. I am recently "with studio" having to work night and day to pay the rent is absolutely worth it! Frequently I find myself being tempted to do "maybe some colour" "maybe a bit digital", but I think sticking to what I enjoy (analogue black/white) shows in the quality of the product I sell. And also in the way I present myself to my customers. It has taken some time to get started and I still have my part-time job but I rather go on like I do than being all-over the place.
Instead zooming in on what I like and what I am good at, for example instead of going digital I offer Fine art childrens portraits and instead of the usual pre-school photographer I take b/w pictures of the kids when they are playing outside.
Good luck with whatever you do!
All the best
Sarah

 

[theseasideartist]

It's been about a year- since your original posting.
Can you give us an update Laura?

As I read through this thread I kept rooting for you-
Follow your heart girl- follow your heart!

I am contemplating a similar venture here at the coast.
Thanks to all who provided such insigtful info.
It made me realize I can turn my dream into reality too.

We get so many interesting folks here to people watch. Tourists, fisherman, surfers, docksiders, sailboaters.
I was debating blowing the dust off my RB67 or going with an old TLR to capture the essence of life along the coast.

Chasing Waves - Thats my dream- Many say surf photographers are groovy,eccentric arty types.

Might be - I am not sure.

What I am sure of is that the information I gleened from this site, tells me that it is possible to follow my heart AND make a living with my art.

So Laura - if you have any insight or words of wisdom to pass on to me, I would love to hear it and how your first year went.

Thanks again to all of you for the inspriation.
I have been out of the photojournalism business for several year; and I am heading back into photography. Long Live Film and Silver Gel Prints !

 

[twoeyeandy]

Just a quick question : What is a 'Sears photograph' and why is it bad? Is it an American thing?
Ta Andy (from the other side of the pond)

 

[BetterSense]

Sears is a department store; some Sears stores have a 'portrait studio' where people can go to get family portraits, Christmas cards, etc. The results are very generic and it surprises me if the market for these kind of portrait mills still exists considering it's so easy to shoot good quality digital images with cheap consumer equipment and get prints, calendars, and all kind of paraphenalia so cheaply; it kind of made sense back when photography was harder and more expensive.

 

[twoeyeandy]

Ahhh I see. Over here we have something like it called Venture, a franchase that charges a fortune for cheesey family pics...
However, back to the thread...I like the BW portrait idea, it is giving the public something it can't easily do themselves. I wonder if it work for my commerical clients...the CEO shot with a Rolleiflex and then a print suppled??
Andy

 

[Rick A]

People are still willing to sit for a good quality family portrait. You still cannot beat a film negative for people photography. We had a di(s)g(us)it(ting)al portrait made, and it looks totally devoid of any depth of character. Skin tone and color saturation are just not there. I dont see where you could PS one and have it look like a film photo. There is no luster from the lighting, we were shot outdoors in the evening light, but it just doesn't show in the photo.
I have seen a resurgance of traveling film portrait set-ups lately. There have been three different companies through our town in the last year. One offered "old timey" portraits with western and victorian wardrobe, and offered a "tintype".

Rick

 

[theseasideartist]

ralnphot- do you know if they are using b/w film or some type of polaroid- like they use to do at amusment places and such- at tourists destinations.
D

 

[Rick A]

The ones i've seen are using some sort of "tin-type" kits. I never asked what they were using, could very well be a Polaroid type affair. Years ago the standard for "old time" portraits was instant, you waited at most half an hour and got a 5x7 and could order extra prints. May be possible to do with a B&W processer for the negs. and coating anything from aluminum sheets to glass with liquid emulsion(precoat a bunch of plates). Would be very doable with an assistant, one to shoot and one to process. I think it would make some money at destination resorts and seasonal resort towns.
Do some homework, and I bet you could pull this off in your studio on the cheap, and be able to charge a livable price. Feel free to PM me and I'll help brainstorm a plan.

Rick