CameraRescue, scalpers are saviours?

[BrianShaw]

In a legal sense yes. But imagine that someone bought all the rice and fields in a region of China.
Then they’d be able to set the price however they wanted and and push up the price for the remaining farmers.
It’s in essence why monopoly is frowned upon and why there in the ultimate sense are antitrust laws.
The difference is all in the scale and intent.

No... in all senses. Let’s not engage in obfuscation with absurd hypothetical situation that aren’t even remotely equivalent.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

There was a guy a few years back who tried to corner the market on a certain used camera, claiming that it was obsolete and could only be made useful with a modification that he patented, and then he sold his modified cameras at very high prices. Let's not mention his name or get into a discussion of that guy, who seems to have faded away, but Camera Rescuers don't seem like that guy.

If they're a dealer, then they're competing with other more established dealers who are using a similar business model--buying cheap gear however they can get it, fixing what's good, and selling it for a profit.

 

[BrianShaw]

It would be a problem if they artificially inserted themselves as a middle man between the used gear original owners/inheritors and the buyer.

For virtually everything we buy or consume there is a middleman, generally several... all providing a value-added service. What is “artificial“ about middlemen. (For anyone who is sensitive, please forgive but I don’t know the gender-neutral term.)

 

[BrianShaw]

There was a guy a few years back who tried to corner the market on a certain used camera, claiming that it was obsolete and could only be made useful with a modification that he patented, and then he sold his modified cameras at very high prices. Let's not mention his name or get into a discussion of that guy, who seems to have faded away, but Camera Rescuers don't seem like that guy.

If you and I are thinking of the same guy... the only problems were that he was a pain to deal with and his price was high enough that few seemed willing to pay. But he provided a value-added product for anyone not bothered by those issues.

 

[Helge]

No... in all senses. Let’s not engage in obfuscation with absurd hypothetical situation that aren’t even remotely equivalent.

It’s not weird or hypothetical. There are fewer good cameras out there than people assume.
That’s why it’s important to support repair people.

If I’m honest I have enough cameras to last several lifetimes and I really should start selling large chunks of the collection off soon.
So I’m in small part guilty of the hoarding that I suspected CR of in my original post.
Only difference is I sell directly, and at a price that reflects the potentially ephemeral functionality of these devices.
Also, I have no direct beef with any of this.
My only worry is of the long-term repercussions.

 

[Helge]

For virtually everything we buy or consume there is a middleman, generally several... all providing a value-added service. What is “artificial“ about middlemen. (For anyone who is sensitive, please forgive but I don’t know the gender-neutral term.)

The big difference is that these are used goods.
The value is purely speculation and hot air.
These cameras purely has perceived value.
The material and production costs have been paid off long ago.
There is no real reason for a middleman, for a straight sale.
Repair and CLAs are a different story. But many cameras don’t need service (yet). Or are virtually impossible to repair.

 

[BrianShaw]

Oy veh...

 

[AgX]

The big difference is that these are used goods.

I prefer deals without a middleman, though one may argue on his added benefit. But concerning the middleman and your distinction distinction between new and used goods such is only a gradual one at best
Well, typically a manufacturer is not around the corner, but quite some manufacturers sell directly too and not all used item of ones interest sits around the corner and not every owner of such wants to undergo the hassle of doing distance sales.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you and I are thinking of the same guy... the only problems were that he was a pain to deal with and his price was high enough that few seemed willing to pay. But he provided a value-added product for anyone not bothered by those issues.

The guy I'm thinking of threatened to sue anyone who attempted to purchase the unmodified cameras on eBay for alleged patent violation in order to drive down the auction price and prevent competition. There have been a few difficult characters working on similar projects, so it may be a different one from the one you're thinking of.

But what's relevant here is that Camera Rescuers don't seem to be engaging in that sort of anti-competitive practice.

 

[Helge]

I prefer deals without a middleman, though one may argue on his added benefit. But concerning the middleman and your distinction distinction between new and used goods such is only a gradual one at best
Well, typically a manufacturer is not around the corner, but quite some manufacturers sell directly too and not all used item of ones interest sits around the corner and not every owner of such wants to undergo the hassle of doing distance sales.

It’s still a distance sale whether you have a Kamerastore or eBay/local listing send you the stuff.
You of course often have the option of going directly to the seller with listings though.
And yeah middlemen might fulfill an important function.
That’s essentially what we are trying to determine here.

 

[Helge]

Oy veh...

Indeed. But not for the reason you seem to assume.

 

[Helge]

The guy I'm thinking of threatened to sue anyone who attempted to purchase the unmodified cameras on eBay for alleged patent violation in order to drive down the auction price and prevent competition. There have been a few difficult characters working on similar projects, so it may be a different one from the one you're thinking of.

But what's relevant here is that Camera Rescuers don't seem to be engaging in that sort of anti-competitive practice.

Just tell who it is already!
I’m curious.
Who are you really protecting here?

 

[BrianShaw]

Indeed. But not for the reason you seem to assume.

And what exactly are you implying?

 

[BrianShaw]

But what's relevant here is that Camera Rescuers don't seem to be engaging in that sort of anti-competitive practice.[/B]

... ANY SORT...

 

[Helge]

And what exactly are you implying?

That writing two word put down posts is pointless and is worthy of “oy veh”.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Oy veh...

More like "Oy gevalt".

 

[BrianShaw]

More like "Oy gevalt".

I’m not a native speaker so defer to your more exact knowledge!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I’m not a native speaker so defer to your more exact knowledge!

That is ok, I understand.

 

[BrianShaw]

That writing two word put down posts is pointless and is worthy of “oy veh”.

Oh, really?

 

[StepheKoontz]

It’s still a distance sale whether you have a Kamerastore or eBay/local listing send you the stuff.
You of course often have the option of going directly to the seller with listings though.
And yeah middlemen might fulfill an important function.
That’s essentially what we are trying to determine here.

I buy a lot of my camera stuff off ebay. Yes, I know the prices are inflated and I could get a better deal spending every weekend morning driving around to garage sales searching for a holy grail deal. I have zero interest in doing that, although I know some people love this sort of thing. I also have zero interest driving around to a bunch of thrift stores and maybe once a year find something interesting to me. I'm happy to pay these folks selling on ebay, that do this drive around searching, a fee for their time. Finding a Leica DR summicron at a thrift store happens once in a lifetime.

I do go visit my local used camera store every week or so to see what they got in. Again, they are a middle man and I'm willing to support them as a "collection facility" for cool camera gear. I know I'm not gonna snag a DR Summicron for $25 there, and I'm happy to pay them what it's real value is.

I keep mentioning a DR summicron because that is exactly what I bought today at my local used camera store. It wasn't a steal. "The middleman" probably made $100, I still bought it for less than what I see them on ebay and it's off to Youxin Ye for a CLA. Or instead I could spend 20+ hours a week searching thrift stores and garage sales for the next 5 years and likely still never be out photographing with one.

 

[Team ADOX]

It’s not weird or hypothetical. There are fewer good cameras out there than people assume.
That’s why it’s important to support repair people.

There are millions of film cameras out there sitting unused on the shelves. That is one major part of Camera Rescue's 'mission' to find / locate these cameras, buy them, check them, give them a CLA or the needed repair and offer them to photographers who want to use them again.

If I’m honest I have enough cameras to last several lifetimes and I really should start selling large chunks of the collection off soon.
So I’m in small part guilty of the hoarding that I suspected CR of in my original post.

Camera Rescue is not hoarding at all!
After checking, CLA or repair the cameras are photographed for the online shop and offered for new customers.
There are working several camera repair technicians, both old(er), very experienced ones and younger ones. They are educating and training new young technicians. Both for their own business to increase their repair team, but they also offer training for externs. They know how important repair knowledge is and want to spread it to the community.
They have also started production of spare parts, even recently their first electronic part.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[reddesert]

There is a saying, "No good deed goes unpunished."

 

[BrianShaw]

Just tell who it is already!
I’m curious.
Who are you really protecting here?

I’ll tell you. PM me. Hope you’re willing to pay a “middleman” markup. Ha ha ha.

 

[AgX]

Some like to search and buy from their desk, even hoping to find "a bargain". Others like me like to stroll around and looking for what they come across. The unexpected gives the trickle. I'm not looking for anything precious, but just what I find interesting and at price I find acceptable, based on my experiences. I do not sell, so actually cannot make a profit. A bargain find to me is something that otherwise I would never have bought.
Amongst my strolling around I very much appriciate those few camera dealers that still exist and who let me look as long as a I wish, do not raise questions, keep me dry and warm and give some lighting... And often they ask lower prices than ignorant private sellers. Even without buying anything, it is kind of camera museum to me.

In this respect for instance a middleman can be benefitial.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I don't like CR for been fear mongering at first appearance. Bragging here and where how his son will have no film camera in future is total BS. Most likely his son will give no crap for film.

But, picking up on them for buying cameras, servicing them by local technicians instead of using outsourced labor is gross.

And actually film is already pooped, not by CR paying decent EU level income for their technicians, but by film industry.
Prices on film and paper are high-jacked to the level of one roll is too much already. Some weeks ago I paid 13 CAD for roll of Porta.
Another six cad will be for development. 20 CAD for one roll of film...
This is where end of film already is. At least to me. I have no interest to pay for film at prices like these. Even so-so Kentmere darkroom paper and films are out of regular use affordability and sense price.

So, I have bunch of working film cameras and they will works for decades. But with reached price level on film and darkroom paper it is not going to be sustainable enough to drain film cameras from the market. I can't imagine to learn and use film now, comparing to its total affordability in 2012 then I started with film for real.

Who could afford hundreds of rolls and hundreds of DR prints per year under current prices? And how film is going to lasts if it is priced for few rolls per year?