CameraRescue, scalpers are saviours?

[Sirius Glass]

That writing two word put down posts is pointless and is worthy of “oy veh”.

The problem is that the whole point is just beyond your ability to understand. We will just leave it at that and move one.

 

[radiant]

This forum has had some kind of negative rush lately. Is the covid-19 taking it's toll on people? I don't understand.

 

[MattKing]

I would be more comfortable if the thread title was "CameraRescue: are they saviors, or are they scalpers?"

 

[radiant]

I would be more comfortable if the thread title was "CameraRescue: are they saviors, or are they scalpers?"

.. or "CameraRescue are scalpers but I try to make it look like that is not what I have hastly decided and I'm open for discussion, for which I'm not, actually".

Sorry, I had to write this

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

This is a good idea. Prevents gear from languishing in attics and shelves, and puts them in the hands of people who will use them. Imagine how much gear over the years has ended up in landfills?

 

[Helge]

The problem is that the whole point is just beyond your ability to understand. We will just leave it at that and move one.

Now there is a clear case of the Dunning-Kruger effect if there ever was.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Now there is a clear case of the Dunning-Kruger effect if there ever was.

I quite agree and you are the personification of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Enjoy.

 

[Helge]

I quite agree and you are the personification of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Enjoy.

I didn't make any snide comments about peoples ability to understand.
Making quick jumps of faulty logic, personality splitting and snap decisions about people, is something persons who think they are cleverer than they are, lack self-insight, self-examination and self-critique do.

If you had any level of comprehension you'd have read and understood that I'm clarifying my original post and stance.
But I am listening to people who actually know these guys, and I am being convinced that they are actually doing a lot of good.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I didn't make any snide comments about peoples ability to understand.
Making quick jumps of faulty logic, personality splitting and snap decisions about people, is something persons who think they are cleverer than they are, lack self-insight, self-examination and self-critique do.

If you had any level of comprehension you'd have read and understood that I'm clarifying my original post and stance.
But I am listening to people who actually know these guys, and I am being convinced that they are actually doing a lot of good.

You are drawing conclusions without facts in evidence, willfully ignoring cherry picked facts, distorting some facts and twisting others to prove something that at this point in time is not been shown. Come back when you have real proof.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I've not used Camera Rescue / Kamera Store - not sure of the FInnish... but it seems like a good idea. Having access to reliable equipment of good quality is a useful and important resource. Separately paying for servicing and / or repair may easily make a "bargain" more expensive than a known quality purchase.

 

[pbromaghin]

Yes, Sirius Glass is displaying the Dunning Kruger effect. While he is being a bit snarky, when it comes to film photography, he is pretty far off into the right end of the chart.

 

[Helge]

You are drawing conclusions without facts in evidence, willfully ignoring cherry picked facts, distorting some facts and twisting others to prove something that at this point in time is not been shown. Come back when you have real proof.

Where do I draw conclusions? Where do I distort or twist facts?
And what does "willfully ignoring cherry picked facts" mean exactly?

I have personally observed some people seemingly rounding up gear driving around the country or aggressively hitting naive flea markets stalls and local listings.
Again, seemingly turning around immediately reselling the items for more money than they are worth to a hungry, slightly feverish global or national market.
Quite obviously with little personal interest in the gear.

Camera stands at fleamarkets, very professional stands, have become a thing in recent years for instance.
Where five or so years ago you where practically being given the stuff by sellers who just happened to include camera gear in their stuff.
Those cameras and gear, at those recent stands, are not from their personal collections I assure you.

Rising interest in film photography is definitely a good thing, and with that will also come a rise in prices naturally.
What I'm concerned about is the hyper-optimisation of dealing and finding gear, with many people trying to make a complete living out of dealing in used gear.
When something is milked for all it's worth, there is consequences.

Of course It's fine selling used gear, and there are stores doing that, and doing a good job of it. But I can see those older stores seeing a great amount of pressure right now.
Good old gear has found new channels and is scooped up by hotheads looking to milk the interest for a few years, until they find something new to drain off energy.

What my question was, was more or less: Is CR a big player in this game? Or are they actually contributing something of value?

Personally I'm leaning to the latter right now, from endorsement and testimony from sensible, knowing people in this thread.

I still don't like how they treat the cameras they sell though. Stacking them in piles.

 

[AgX]

I have personally observed some people seemingly rounding up gear driving around the country or aggressively hitting naive flea markets stalls and local listings.

Camera stands at fleamarkets, very professional stands, have become a thing in recent years for instance.

I have not yet encountered either.

But I have encountered (though very rarely) Fleamarket sellers informed on internet hypes, I myself was yet ignorant on.

 

[Helge]

I have not yet encountered either.

But I have encountered (though very rarely) Fleamarket sellers informed on internet hypes, I myself was yet ignorant on.

This early spring I was in Mauerpark flea market and other smaller markets in Berlin. Most of them had one stall with covered roofs and more gear and of a better quality than you just happen upon by chance by emptying estates. In addition to that at other stalls, there where big piles of camera related knickknacks being sold at exorbitant prices, quite a lot higher than other stuff, not film related.
I've seen similar in for example DC and Denmark in general.

 

[AgX]

Berlin is a hotspot for film photography. So that could be an explanation, but you referred to even Denmark in general, that surprises me.

 

[removedacct1]

I guess I'm not surprised that this ended up in toxic territory. *sigh*

 

[Helge]

I guess I'm not surprised that this ended up in toxic territory. *sigh*

What does "toxic" even mean?
It feels like one of those platitudes people seem elated or even ecstatic to have discovered, because it makes it easy to boilerplate tell off people and generically criticise stuff you don't agree with.

I see only one or two people who can't control their urges for pre-packaged, ego stroking polemics.
The rest seem civil enough.
If I had wanted aggressive conflict at the outset, I'd have phrased my first post as a list of "facts", accusations and used more explatives.
Notice the question marks?

 

[mcfitz]

Since so far no-one seems to have had any personal dealings with CR and their outlet store, I'll chime in.
Last fall they had many items on promotional sale for about a week in November. I was able to find a beautiful 105mm lens for my enlarger. Its condition was listed, including that there was a bit of dust on the front element.
The name of the technician who had looked after the lens was beside the listing, with an email address.
I wrote and inquired about the less-than perfect condition of the lens, wanting to know if it would affect my printing.
The very quick reply was that for my purposes, the lens would be fine, but for a collector, the presence of any flaw needed to be specified in advance. I am a user, not a collector, so no problem.
The sales price and shipping were excellent, (roughly 60 euros) and within four working days, the lens had arrived from Finland to France.
It is a beautiful Rodenstock Rodagon lens, I am very happy to have it. That lens new would be over 1200 euros, I can't afford that.

In the winter my husband wanted to get a Minolta SRT I've been hankering after for my birthday, and I went back to looking at the Kameratori store for one.
Again, I found what I was looking for, the description of its condition was precise and accurate - not in mint condition, works well, not everything perfect cosmetically. Had been checked over and cleaned, seals replaced.
It also arrived within four working days. Price, with shipping, around 110 euros, more or less.

Again, I am extremely happy with the newest material from them. Its condition is as described.

Shortly after the camera arrived, I saw the exact same one at a flea market for 95 euros. The temptation to get it as well was strong (just because) but I resisted. I had no idea if that one worked well, if the seals needed replacing, etc.

I don't do camera repairs, knowing that Camera Rescue team does check them over and cleans and repair what they can, make dealing with them worth my while and they offer a limited guarantee and also return within a specified delay of time.

In Europe, they are good, in my experience. That is my point of view as a customer. I don't go the Kamertori store often, it is too much tempation.

Others have stated that they are training technicians and that is also great. They are giving new life to unused material. They are passoinate about film photography and cameras.

So there is some first hand personal experience to add to this discussion.

 

[Henning Serger]

Of course It's fine selling used gear, and there are stores doing that, and doing a good job of it. But I can see those older stores seeing a great amount of pressure right now.
Good old gear has found new channels and is scooped up by hotheads looking to milk the interest for a few years, until they find something new to drain off energy.
What my question was, was more or less: Is CR a big player in this game?

No, they are definitely not. I can ensure you from my own experience with them.
They are really committed film photography enthusiasts. And not "short-term business trend surfers".

Or are they actually contributing something of value?

Certainly they do:
- searching for and finding the unused cameras globally for you as a film photographer interested in really using the camera(s) (they have also often offered very rare and difficult to find cameras)
- general function check of all cameras, doing a CLA
- if a defect is found, repair of the camera by their own repair specialists (their older, experienced repair men had got original factory repair training by the manufacturers in the "film era")
- offering a return policy for their customers.
And I think it should also be appreciated that they meanwhile have began in-house production of spare parts. That are first, small steps but they intend to increase their efforts. And also very important are their activities in training of new, young repair technicians. And their marketing activities for film photography in general via facebook, instagram and youtube.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Helge]

Thanks Henning, Adox, AgX, Pioneer, mcfitz and others for taking time to answer!
I think I’m convinced that CR are worth supporting, endorsing and recommending to newbies.

They might not be perfect, but then who is?

Just learn to handle incoming cameras in a more civilized way guys!

I’d still like to know how they get to single cameras in homes on shelves and in basements.
Do they put up wanted posters a week ahead in grocery stores and post local notices on Facebook?

 

[BrianShaw]

I think I’m convinced that CR are worth supporting, endorsing and recommending to newbies.

I’m sure they’ve been waiting for this with bated breath.

 

[Helge]

I’m sure they’ve been waiting for this with bated breath.

You can have my “middleman” markup any time Brian.
Now PM me the name of that patent troll already! ;-)

I don’t really think CR has much to say in this thread. It was always about what I thought, but I entertain the vain idea that others might have some of the same thoughts. And that people now and in the future might find this thread useful.
Who knows?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

This interview gives a good impression of the project:

 

[AgX]

100.000 cameras as intention... that would be market position, that sets Helge's apprehension in another light.

 

[Dan-Andrei Chira]

Thanks for the thread! It was really informative. I'd like to step in and add(I know I'm a year too late, but wht the heck) that they've started courses for camera technicians, which is amazing. This also seems to add to their credibility and their willingness to add to the film revival.

Cheers everyone! (This was my first post. I've never done forums, so be gentle)