Camera or development problem?

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

I just got the last batch of negatives back from the lab I've been using and I'm a bit disappointed in what I'm seeing. Several of the frames have subtle dark lines emanating from the top of the frame, a handful have similar light bands (the attached image has both). I can see the issues with the negatives themselves so this is not an artifact of scanning.

The images were all shot with a Hasselblad 500 C/M, 50mm Distagon lens, and a Heliopan Bay 60 #8 yellow filter on Tri-X 400 film. I've shot several other rolls recently with this exact same setup and didn't notice any issues.

I've attached a zoomed in portion of one of the scans which illustrates the issue. I'm thinking this looks like a problem that occurred during development, although it seems to have affected more than one roll so it could be something else (bad batch of film?).

Anyone care to weigh in on what they think might have caused this?

Don_ih · Aug 16, 2021

Looks like a problem with the development. The darker streaks especially don't look like they could be anything else.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

Don Heisz said:
Looks like a problem with the development. The darker streaks especially don't look like they could be anything else.

Thanks, my thinking as well.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2021

How are these being scanned?

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

mshchem said:
How are these being scanned?

On an Epson V550 flatbed scanner. But I see the streaks when looking at the negatives with a loupe.

pentaxuser · Aug 16, 2021

Several of the frames have subtle dark lines emanating from the top of the frame, a handful have similar light bands (the attached image has both).

So does this mean that some of the frames on this actual film are OK? If so we are looking for an intermittent fault that affects some frames only? So if the problem is not an intermittent one from the camera then I wonder what can happen in the development process that affects only some of the frames but not others?

Of course this depends on your answer to my first question

pentaxuser

bdial · Aug 16, 2021

Are the defects occurring in the same position on each frame or do they show up randomly.
In general, consistent locations would tend to be a camera fault (or scanner, perhaps), while random is often processing.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Several of the frames have subtle dark lines emanating from the top of the frame, a handful have similar light bands (the attached image has both).

So does this mean that some of the frames on this actual film are OK?

Yes, some frames appear to be ok, only some exhibit this issue.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

bdial said:
Are the defects occurring in the same position on each frame or do they show up randomly.
In general, consistent locations would tend to be a camera fault (or scanner, perhaps), while random is often processing.

They are not in the same location on every frame, although they do seem to all have a similar vertical orientation.

pentaxuser · Aug 16, 2021

logan2z your answers in #8and 9 that some frames are OK suggests that it is not a developing fault unless the camera was creating a problem only on some frames which then showed up on processing. If it is the camera then this might explain the same fault ie. all have a vertical orientation but I'd have expected it to show up on almost identical positions on each affected frame. How different are the locations each time i.e. very close to the same part of the frame or a long way apart?

As things stand I cannot give an explanation that reconciles both intermittent and different positions on affected frames

Can anyone familiar with this type of Hasselblad suggest a fault that is both intermittent and move each time it affect a frame?

pentaxuser

mshchem · Aug 16, 2021

Film type, storage conditions etc. ??

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

mshchem said:
Film type, storage conditions etc. ??

Kodak Tri-X 400 120, stored in the fridge (at least after I received it). Purchased from B&H, not expired. I shot some other rolls from the same package and there were no issues.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

pentaxuser said:
logan2z your answers in #8and 9 that some frames are OK suggests that it is not a developing fault unless the camera was creating a problem only on some frames which then showed up on processing. If it is the camera then this might explain the same fault ie. all have a vertical orientation but I'd have expected it to show up on almost identical positions on each affected frame. How different are the locations each time i.e. very close to the same part of the frame or a long way apart?

As things stand I cannot give an explanation that reconciles both intermittent and different positions on affected frames

Can anyone familiar with this type of Hasselblad suggest a fault that is both intermittent and move each time it affect a frame?

pentaxuser

They're not all in the same location, but they all seem to be in the top 1/3 to 1/2 of the frame, towards the middle. Here's a couple of more examples:

The horizontal lines in the first image are power lines, so that's expected. It is the vertical dark bands that I'm pointing out here. The issue in the second image seems a bit different than the others, a very straight white (high density) line reaching the top of the frame.

foc · Aug 16, 2021

Are they on the emulsion side or the base (shiny) side of the negative?

Also, it might help if you could post an image of the film strip, something like this:

(not my image)

MattKing · Aug 16, 2021

Do the dark areas extend across the spaces between the frames or on to the film rebate?

grain elevator · Aug 16, 2021

My money is on processing. Can't imagine anything that could cause this in camera. Is the pattern consistent with streaks of a liquid running down the film? That's what it looks like to me, but hard to tell seeing only individuals frames.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

MattKing said:
Do the dark areas extend across the spaces between the frames or on to the film rebate?

No, they are wholly contained within the frame.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

grain elevator said:
My money is on processing. Can't imagine anything that could cause this in camera. Is the pattern consistent with streaks of a liquid running down the film? That's what it looks like to me, but hard to tell seeing only individuals frames.

That was my first thought as well. The white streak I showed above seemed a bit different because it was so straight, but I guess it's possible.

I suppose I could try and clean the film as was suggested to me in another thread to see if there is something to be cleaned off
(My other thread was discussing
water spots on my 35mm negatives from the same lab). The irony is I complained about the water spots to the head of the lab I use and he personally inspected my negatives before he released them back to me saying they were clean. Admittedly, some of these are subtle when looking at the negatives under a loupe and didn't become plainly visible until I scanned them. But despite these streaks of whatever, I do see a water spot on one of the frames as well. Ugh.

All my film will be home processed going forward. I can screw up my negatives for free, I don't need to pay someone else to do it for me

mshchem · Aug 16, 2021

logan2z said:
No, they are wholly contained within the frame.

Aha!
Um, I don't know what that means. Other than, it would be pretty hard for film or processing defects to only occur in the frame.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2021

logan2z said:
That was my first thought as well. The white streak I showed above seemed a bit different because it was so straight, but I guess it's possible.

I suppose I could try and clean the film as was suggested to me in another thread to see if there is something to be cleaned off
(My other thread was discussing
water spots on my 35mm negatives from the same lab). The irony is I complained about the water spots to the head of the lab I use and he personally inspected my negatives before he released them back to me saying they were clean. Admittedly, some of these are subtle when looking at the negatives under a loupe and didn't become plainly visible until I scanned them. But despite these streaks of whatever, I do see a water spot on one of the frames as well. Ugh.

All my film will be home processed going forward. I can screw up my negatives for free, I don't need to pay someone else to do it for me

I would "preserve the evidence" until you figure this out. Processing yourself is a very good idea!

Pieter12 · Aug 16, 2021

mshchem said:
Aha!
Um, I don't know what that means. Other than, it would be pretty hard for film or processing defects to only occur in the frame.

Well, between the frames is clear (prints black) and the defects as shown appear to be in mid-tone areas. So whatever it is it's not showing up in the blacks.

cliveh · Aug 16, 2021

How do you dry your film? Detail process after wash.

logan2z · Aug 16, 2021

cliveh said:
How do you dry your film? Detail process after wash.

This film was processed at a lab.

foc · Aug 16, 2021

logan2z said:
No, they are wholly contained within the frame.

That doe not sound like a processing problem (IMO).
If we could see the neg strip it would help.

Sirius Glass · Aug 16, 2021

Take the film back to the lab and ask.

Camera or development problem?

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