C-42 is Kodak's home-version of C-41?

Photo Engineer · Jun 13, 2019

As I said, a few color oddities. But then going from a CD3 process to a CD4 process is easier, but going from CD4 to CD3 is much much more difficult in terms of dye formation. I have done both types of cross processes.

PE

mohmad khatab · Jun 13, 2019

Rudeofus said:
CD-3 works without Benzyl Alcohol and at moderate pH for ECN-2 process. Since ECN-2 film stock can be cross processed in C-41 CD (give or take a few color oddities), I would assume the opposite direction would work as well, as long as the somewhat lower activity of CD-3 is taken into account.

On the whole I respect all scientific views.
I think that all views are really very logical.
I think experience is the only reference that can clarify the facts.
There is an ancient wisdom saying: "If someone tells you that the camel has ascended to the palm tree, tell him, this is the camel, and that is the palm, so let me do it now and make the camel climb the palm."

- I'm just waiting to get HAS, potassium bromide, in a few days. So I will do this experiment in practice as some brothers advised me, even if the results are not good, I have nothing to lose, I will lose nothing but some raw materials The cheap and price of a film roll.
- The total cost will not cause any painful losses (if the experiment fails).
But, if the experiment succeeds, it will be an important discovery (as I think).
- I will follow all tips regarding quantities, temperatures and duration.
You must be optimistic.
Greetings to all .

mohmad khatab · Jul 19, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Rudi, those chemicals and procedures are quite dangerous and some are quite toxic. I would not suggest that an amateur try this.

PE

My esteemed teacher.
I went with those documents to an Egyptian governmental research authority. I met with a senior professor - the director in charge of the research sector in that scientific research body. I presented the idea to him and gave him a copy of that document. He told me that they would try to help me produce that material.
God bless you .

bnxvs · Aug 15, 2019

My working formula for the color negative process is:
(per 500 ml of working solution):

Distilled water 350ml (50-60 degrees C)
-------------------------------------------------------
Trilon B (EDTA-2Na) ...........................1g
Hydroxylamine Sulfate ........................1g
Potassium iodide (1% solution) ...........0.5ml
Potassium Bromide .............................0.67g
Potassium carbonate (potash) ............18.73g
Sodium sulfite ......................................1,75g
CD-4 ....................................................2.015g
or
CD-1 (TSS-1, ЦПВ-1) ......................... 1.22g *
--------------------------------------------------------
Distilled water - up to 500ml

* CD-1 (TSS-1, N,N-Diethyl-p-phenylenediamine sulfate, CAS #6283-63-2) must be dissolved separately in a small amount of water. Then add to the stock solution with constant stirring.

Test pic. LOMO SMENA 8M, Fuji Superia 200 (exp.14). Dev. time 3.15min (38 deg.C), blich time 5min (Fe(III)EDTA), Fix time 5min.

Fresh solution needs a "starter":
Distilled Water - 50 ml
-----------------------------------------
Potassium carbonate ......... 4.5g
Sodium Bicarbonate .......... 5g
Sulfite Sodium ang. ............1g
Potassium bromide ............5g
Potassium iodide - 6 ml of 0.1% solution
------------------------------------------
Distilled water - up to 100ml

3 ml per 150 ml of the working solution of the developer

koraks · Aug 15, 2019

Interesting approach, with two things that puzzle me:
1. Why the combination of CD4 and CD1?
2. Why a separate 'starter' (which seems to be different in purpose and nature than commercial C41 starter)?

halfaman · Aug 15, 2019

I don't understand it is a combination but a substitution. CD-4 or CD-1.

Ian Grant · Aug 15, 2019

koraks said:
Interesting approach, with two things that puzzle me:
1. Why the combination of CD4 and CD1?
2. Why a separate 'starter' (which seems to be different in purpose and nature than commercial C41 starter)?

He does say CD4 OR CD1.

You need a starter for consistency, I assume he could beusing a top up or bleed replenishment system. The starter seasons the fresh developer.

Ian

bnxvs · Aug 15, 2019

Ian Grant said:
He does say CD4 OR CD1.

You need a starter for consistency, I assume he could beusing a top up or bleed replenishment system. The starter seasons the fresh developer.

Ian

You are absolutely right! )))

koraks · Aug 15, 2019

My apologies; I missed the "or" despite the emphasis.

bnxvs · Aug 16, 2019

The second control development

LSV · Jan 13, 2020

bnxvs said:
My working formula for the color negative process is:
(per 500 ml of working solution):

Distilled water 350ml (50-60 degrees C)
-------------------------------------------------------
Trilon B (EDTA-2Na) ...........................1g
Hydroxylamine Sulfate ........................1g
Potassium iodide (1% solution) ...........0.5ml
Potassium Bromide .............................0.67g
Potassium carbonate (potash) ............18.73g
Sodium sulfite ......................................1,75g
CD-4 ....................................................2.015g
or
CD-1 (TSS-1, ЦПВ-1) ......................... 1.22g *
--------------------------------------------------------
Distilled water - up to 500ml

Maybe the author will continue his story and write a recipe for Bleach / Fix / Stabilizer. It is the recipe that the author himself uses.
How many films can be developed in 500 ml of developer?
Thanks!

bnxvs · Jan 13, 2020

LSV said:
Maybe the author will continue his story and write a recipe for Bleach / Fix / Stabilizer. It is the recipe that the author himself uses.
How many films can be developed in 500 ml of developer?
Thanks!

Hello!
1. You can use any bleach, fixer and stabilizer, which is easier for you to get or make. I do not see any fundamental difference.
I'm usually using bleach based Fe(III)EDTA. But bleach based on potassium ferricyanide also works well.
Here is EDTA-based formula of bleach:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/c41-bleach-formula.12343/

2. I can’t say for sure how many film rolls can be processed in 500 ml, since I use a small home-made rotary machine (150 ml based on Rondinax tank) in a one-time mode. It's more comfortable for me. But I think no less 4 rolls...

3. Simple and cheap rapid fixer:
- Sodium Thiosulfate – 200g
- Ammonium Chloride – 86g
- Water to make 1 litre

LSV · Jan 13, 2020

bnxvs said:
Hello!
1. You can use any bleach, fixer and stabilizer, which is easier for you to get or make. I do not see any fundamental difference...

Thanks! I'm happy with your answer!

bnxvs · Jan 13, 2020

You're welcome!

mohmad khatab · Apr 9, 2020

bnxvs said:
My working formula for the color negative process is:
(per 500 ml of working solution):

Distilled water 350ml (50-60 degrees C)
-------------------------------------------------------
Trilon B (EDTA-2Na) ...........................1g
Hydroxylamine Sulfate ........................1g
Potassium iodide (1% solution) ...........0.5ml
Potassium Bromide .............................0.67g
Potassium carbonate (potash) ............18.73g
Sodium sulfite ......................................1,75g
CD-4 ....................................................2.015g
or
CD-1 (TSS-1, ЦПВ-1) ......................... 1.22g *
--------------------------------------------------------
Distilled water - up to 500ml

* CD-1 (TSS-1, N,N-Diethyl-p-phenylenediamine sulfate, CAS #6283-63-2) must be dissolved separately in a small amount of water. Then add to the stock solution with constant stirring.

Test pic. LOMO SMENA 8M, Fuji Superia 200 (exp.14). Dev. time 3.15min (38 deg.C), blich time 5min (Fe(III)EDTA), Fix time 5min.

Fresh solution needs a "starter":
Distilled Water - 50 ml
-----------------------------------------
Potassium carbonate ......... 4.5g
Sodium Bicarbonate .......... 5g
Sulfite Sodium ang. ............1g
Potassium bromide ............5g
Potassium iodide - 6 ml of 0.1% solution
------------------------------------------
Distilled water - up to 100ml

3 ml per 150 ml of the working solution of the developer

I have (CD2)
Can it be used?
How long can this developer live?
- From the moment of preparation - on the assumption that it will be placed in a tight bottle in a cool place and the packaging will never open - how long can he live?
- If we wanted the developer’s preparation to be separated in two packages - one quarter liter capacity for example - this is in order to ensure a longer life for this developer before mixing - what would the formula be in that case?
- Will the starter be teared, or will he be separated as well?

bnxvs · Apr 9, 2020

Nobody will stop you from checking all this yourself. And, I think, many people will be grateful, if you do such tests and share the results.

mohmad khatab · Apr 9, 2020

bnxvs said:
Nobody will stop you from checking all this yourself. And, I think, many people will be grateful, if you do such tests and share the results.

I do some tests under the supervision of a respected Austrian engineer. Rudeofus
I will consult with him on this, as he is my teacher.

mohmad khatab · May 24, 2020

bnxvs said:
Nobody will stop you from checking all this yourself. And, I think, many people will be grateful, if you do such tests and share the results.

I am sorry for the late reply so much, please excuse me.
God bless you
- These are images developed using that recipe with the substance (CD2) 1.80 grams have been added, the value has not been calculated on any scientific basis, only the matter has been dealt with sense.
Konica Film Expired Since 2005.

View attachment 246896 View attachment 246897 View attachment 246896 View attachment 246897

bnxvs · May 25, 2020

Well, I see in these pictures a significant imbalance in color layers. I think you should try to bring the process to the optimum state using the reference strips from Fujifilm or Kodak (if you can get them). Or with some obviously high-quality film that you developed with the proprietary C-41 process, and you are sure of its adequate color reproduction.

mohmad khatab · May 26, 2020

bnxvs said:
Well, I see in these pictures a significant imbalance in color layers. I think you should try to bring the process to the optimum state using the reference strips from Fujifilm or Kodak (if you can get them). Or with some obviously high-quality film that you developed with the proprietary C-41 process, and you are sure of its adequate color reproduction.

- I do not know on any basis that you say that there is a great imbalance in those pictures!
- Perhaps there is a malfunction, but it is very slight due to the fact that the film is expired.
Unfortunately, I do not have the test strips. I don’t have this.
But by and large,
This experiment was just a very shy experience that was performed on Konica's Expired Registry since 1998 ,,
- I promise that I will bring you more good photos with fresh film.

Rudeofus · May 28, 2020

There are distinct magenta spots on the bottom of both images, but I am quite sure, that these come from light leaks and the old age of the film, and not from deficiencies of the developer.

bnxvs · May 28, 2020

My English is not good enough to explain in more detail, unfortunately. But the deviation of the color to a purple hue, a very "poor green", and too large a grain in my opinion speak of an imbalance in the contrast of color layers.
p.s. It is not necessary to have control strips. I already wrote to you earlier that it’s enough to have a little fresh and tested negative film in order to test the process. In general, any testing is best done on quality materials, so as not to guess later of what errors occurred in the process.

Rudeofus · May 31, 2020

It is quite easy to correct color cross over in digital post, and I don't think, anyone ever considered enlarging these negatives optically. Given the very visible magenta patches in these samples, coming from a combination of old age, poor storage and maybe a light leak in the camera, color balance would be the very least of my least concerns. The grain most likely comes from an improvised scanning setup.

There are situations, where only a perfectly dialed in process is acceptable, and this situation does not seem to be one of them.

bnxvs · May 31, 2020

Rudeofus said:
It is quite easy to correct color cross over in digital post

In fact, you cannot restore the true color of a properly processed negative by any digital post processing. It's a delusion.
Yes, you can just “color” a picture in Photoshop, but this will have nothing to do with the actual color rendering of the film. I don't understand - why shooting on film in this case?
As for these images specifically, in my opinion, it is clearly visible that all the shortcomings are the consequences of a violation of the processing process (chemistry, temperature, agitation, time etc.). It's very characteristic. And the age of the film has nothing to do with it in my opinion.
But the exact reasons can only be determined by a comparative, calibrated test. So all of the above is my speculation, nothing more )))

mohmad khatab · May 31, 2020

bnxvs said:
In fact, you cannot restore the true color of a properly processed negative by any digital post processing. It's a delusion.
Yes, you can just “color” a picture in Photoshop, but this will have nothing to do with the actual color rendering of the film. I don't understand - why shooting on film in this case?
As for these images specifically, in my opinion, it is clearly visible that all the shortcomings are the consequences of a violation of the processing process (chemistry, temperature, agitation, time etc.). It's very characteristic. And the age of the film has nothing to do with it in my opinion.
But the exact reasons can only be determined by a comparative, calibrated test. So all of the above is my speculation, nothing more )))

My dear, this is the movie AGFA ISO 100 expired since 1994
And the store was in a very bad way.
These photos were filmed by Ricoh camera, they were having problems and they were fixed and we wanted to try them until we know if the repair is successful or not,
The aperture of 3.5 and the shutter speed was one second.
Chemistry cannot be the cause
It is impossible that the reason is the speed of stirring the acids, every 50 seconds 15 seconds of stirring at an average speed of no more than 32 RPM, even temperatures and time were 99% perfect everything was done accurately, I was using an electronic thermometer and electronic timer ,, so that The chemistry emptying time and film washing were done in less than 4 seconds as the warm water tap is next to the acidification table.
The temperature of the hot water tank was controlled by a temperature of half an extra degree.
Generally, the error rate in the process will not exceed 2% .. and this percentage may be less than the error rate of the professional machine programmed.

C-42 is Kodak's home-version of C-41?

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