C-41 processing for neophytes

A window to art

D
A window to art

  • 0
  • 0
  • 0
Bushland Stairway

Bushland Stairway

  • 4
  • 1
  • 54
Rouse st

A
Rouse st

  • 6
  • 3
  • 98
Do-Over Decor

A
Do-Over Decor

  • 1
  • 1
  • 111

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
199,236
Messages
2,788,361
Members
99,840
Latest member
roshanm
Recent bookmarks
1

macandal

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
145
Location
San Francisco, CA
Format
4x5 Format
Okay, here it is. Here's one of the pictures from that roll of film. The film itself, upon first looking at it, does look brownish/reddish, but here, scanned, it does look decent. I did nothing to it. I simply scanned it.

img013.jpg

Hmmm? Interesting. Maybe I just needed to have more patience with the negative. It perhaps required more tinkering with it. :sad::sad::sad::sad:
 

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
Okay, here it is. Here's one of the pictures from that roll of film. The film itself, upon first looking at it, does look brownish/reddish, but here, scanned, it does look decent. I did nothing to it. I simply scanned it.

View attachment 62159

Hmmm? Interesting. Maybe I just needed to have more patience with the negative. It perhaps required more tinkering with it. :sad::sad::sad::sad:

Maybe you aren't used to looking at color negatives? They are often brownish lol


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
693
Location
Memphis, TN
Format
35mm
Actually, that photo looks quite good to me. Yes, the shadows are bluish, but it looks like you shot this in the evening. The interior lights are slightly yellowish, which are as they should be.
 

bvy

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
3,285
Location
Pittsburgh
Format
Multi Format
For my own part, I found it helpful to scan my home developed negative alongside a lab developed one. My scanner is an Epson V500, but I didn't use the mask. I place both negatives side by side on the glass, and then select a crop that includes frames from both. All software correction functions should be turned off.
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
The scan indicates that your process is just fine. You are being put off by the orange mask common to most color negative films.

PE
 

macandal

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
145
Location
San Francisco, CA
Format
4x5 Format
Do you have C41 negs processed by a lab to compare them to? The mask is kind of a burnt orange and varies a bit between film types.
I compared them to some 4x5 negatives I had processed at a lab and you're all right, the negatives do look a bit brownish.
 

macandal

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
145
Location
San Francisco, CA
Format
4x5 Format
Polyglot:

My kit's instructions didn't recommend washes between chemistry steps; they only recommended one at the very beginning. Do you wash between steps because your kit tells you to do this or do you chose to do it this way? I ask because I want to do this. It seems appropriate to get rid of the chemistry and not contaminate the next step.

All:

Where can I get another color kit in the U.S.? I got mine from Freestyle. They have others but they use "blix" (bleach and fix combined) and I hear this is not a good way to go. From what I've read the only kits that use bleach and fix separately are Rollei, Kodak, and Fuji, right? Where can I get a Fuji kit in the U.S.?

Thanks.
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
OMG, no washes? Insane. Almost as bad as using a blix!

I just posted the official C41 process here, and remember that EK now suggests a stop bath after the developer for rotary tank processes to promote uniformity.

PE
 

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
Polyglot:

My kit's instructions didn't recommend washes between chemistry steps; they only recommended one at the very beginning. Do you wash between steps because your kit tells you to do this or do you chose to do it this way? I ask because I want to do this. It seems appropriate to get rid of the chemistry and not contaminate the next step.

All:

Where can I get another color kit in the U.S.? I got mine from Freestyle. They have others but they use "blix" (bleach and fix combined) and I hear this is not a good way to go. From what I've read the only kits that use bleach and fix separately are Rollei, Kodak, and Fuji, right? Where can I get a Fuji kit in the U.S.?

Thanks.

Freestyle has a very simple 3 bath developer, the more advanced users have more steps (6 I think) but I could be wrong about the number. Anyway it's good to wash quickly in between baths as you said so there isn't as much cross contamination. Just make sure you get most of the water out so you don't dilute the next chemical.

I'm semi new like you with color chemistry, I've had a real hard time finding E-6 chemistry other than the freestyle and same with C-41, and it's not that I haven't found it, it's that the additional bath steps confuse me and I can't seem to find documentation from a particular company that explains all the bath steps and where to buy them, you would think they would want to sell their product to newcomers but they don't seem to be very good at making it easy on those who haven't done it before, they make assumptions about the level of knowledge their potential market has and are limiting access based on those assumptions. I bet if kodak ran a real add campaign about their film and chemistry and came out with a "beginners kit" and explained all the steps and made it appealing and simple, that they would start selling more film and chemistry, but they are all short sighted and don't understand the potential new market and the old market is dying out, retiring, doing digital. It's really sad how obvious it is to me that none of the color film companies "get it".

Freestyle sort of gets it because they are specifically for students, but they use the 3 bath kits which as PE says are not as good as the 6 bath setups for various reasons. I believe him, he knows A LOT and anyone would be foolish not to listen to his advice. But the access and price points for home users is limiting, there's all sorts of issues with chemistry being sold in large bottles and then the chemistry goes bad, and talk of infusing the bottles with other gasses to keep the chemistry from going bad, but no simple beginner would have those setups, it's really a blind sighted thing, it's super frustrating.

My advice is to perfect your color chemistry development for the 3 bath kits, get good at it, then venture out and learn and read to get a better sense of what else is out there. The film will still be good from the 3 bath kits, it's just some of the details you might not notice now like the darks might be "better" with a 6 bath or something. But that's sort of irrelevant, I would bet that the home development 3 bath kits would still be better than the cheapo lab ones as they probably push their developers to the limit to save $ and that leads to less quality in the image overall... just my opinion of course, I could be wrong...
 

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
OMG, no washes? Insane. Almost as bad as using a blix!

I just posted the official C41 process here, and remember that EK now suggests a stop bath after the developer for rotary tank processes to promote uniformity.

PE

Where is "here"?
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
Here is APUG, and it was in a thread that you asked me for the instructions for reusing developer. How do you extend the times. I posted everything. I'm surprised you missed it.

The current process is Dev, stop, bleach, wash, fix, wash, final rinse.

PE
 

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
Here is APUG, and it was in a thread that you asked me for the instructions for reusing developer. How do you extend the times. I posted everything. I'm surprised you missed it.

The current process is Dev, stop, bleach, wash, fix, wash, final rinse.

PE

I don't think I missed that as much as overwhelmed with info, it's also hard to actually find these in reasonable price/quantity if you don't know where to look. Thanks for the info I'll re-look it up after my trip :smile:


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
It should be under "my posts" on APUG here. I hate to keep re-posting the same charts over and over, but if you cannot find it, I'll do it again.

PE
 

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
Ron, where do you find from Kodak the suggestion for a stop with rotary processing? I don't see any changes in the tech sheets.

He wrote the book and left out the secret chapters, just take his word on it haha


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
Greg;

Kodak posted this for RA4 and C41 processing back about 5 years ago or more. It was first noted in "The Journal of Rotary Processing" by Jobo and taken up by Kodak. It seems that there is a nonuniformity problem with MF and LF films, and it was very bad with color paper. They may have withdrawn it for film when they lowered the pH of the Bleach III bath. IDK. I use it with paper, but not with film. I have had no problem.

It is not in any of the printed color dataguides. I just saw it on-line in the instructions for film and paper both under rotary processing.

Sorry that I cannot scan in an exact reference, I'll just say use what works. I do know that I get severe problems if I omit it from the paper process.

I did not write the books though, I just designed some of the early formulas.

PE
 

polyglot

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
3,467
Location
South Australia
Format
Medium Format
For full instructions, read the Kodak Z-manuals (Z-131 linked from my howto) which explains when and why to wash; my howto is derived from the Kodak manuals and some experienced colour people here on APUG including PE.

Some of the kit instructions are extremely lacking and don't tell you when you need to wash, or put them in as a footnote that's not very clear at all. There's a long APUG thread (also linked from my howto) about the Rollei kit that discusses the washing issue and shortfalls in kit instructions.
 

macandal

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
145
Location
San Francisco, CA
Format
4x5 Format
Some of the kit instructions are extremely lacking and don't tell you when you need to wash, or put them in as a footnote that's not very clear at all. There's a long APUG thread (also linked from my howto) about the Rollei kit that discusses the washing issue and shortfalls in kit instructions.
Yes! Absolutely true. I used the Rollei kit for my film developing and they don't tell you to wash in between steps. They only suggest a pre-wash and that's it.
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
Kodak original process cycles

Sigh!

These instructions on process cycle and capacity are still in the Kodak manuals for color processing.

The only change that I saw is the change to suggest a 1 - 2% stop bath after the color developer. This was for RA4 and C-41 when the bix/bleach respectively were at about pH 6.5 and were deep red. In the years intervening, Kodak released a low pH bleach for C41 that probably could replace a stop. I can find NO reference to support my comment and therefore it is irrelevant. However, I have found many many references to a stop in RA4.

In fact, I was recalled from a Christmas vacation to work on the then Ektaprint 2 and 3 stop bath! Ok, so I know whereof I speak. There were nonuniform results from processes with the RED bleach / blix that caused problems in C41 and Ektapint 3 / RA4. It is STILL a problem in RA4 and so a Stop is needed but it is a "maybe" in C41. Therefore I say "if it works, use" it in terms of process cycle.

Sorry for any confusion caused by my posts, but ere is what I have found after a search of 20+ years of Kodak pubs. Whatta way to spend a Sunday evening!

PE
 

Attachments

  • C41 capacity.jpg
    C41 capacity.jpg
    128.9 KB · Views: 124
  • C41 process.jpg
    C41 process.jpg
    286.3 KB · Views: 128

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
Sigh!

These instructions on process cycle and capacity are still in the Kodak manuals for color processing.

The only change that I saw is the change to suggest a 1 - 2% stop bath after the color developer. This was for RA4 and C-41 when the bix/bleach respectively were at about pH 6.5 and were deep red. In the years intervening, Kodak released a low pH bleach for C41 that probably could replace a stop. I can find NO reference to support my comment and therefore it is irrelevant. However, I have found many many references to a stop in RA4.

In fact, I was recalled from a Christmas vacation to work on the then Ektaprint 2 and 3 stop bath! Ok, so I know whereof I speak. There were nonuniform results from processes with the RED bleach / blix that caused problems in C41 and Ektapint 3 / RA4. It is STILL a problem in RA4 and so a Stop is needed but it is a "maybe" in C41. Therefore I say "if it works, use" it in terms of process cycle.

Sorry for any confusion caused by my posts, but ere is what I have found after a search of 20+ years of Kodak pubs. Whatta way to spend a Sunday evening!

PE

Thanks Ron!

Do you have the capacity for 120?
 

StoneNYC

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
8,345
Location
Antarctica
Format
8x10 Format
Hi,

I'm not Ron, but I can answer this one. 120 is equivalent to a 36exp roll of 35mm.

mike

haha thanks, I actually knew that, except I had only seen the 20 exposure rolls listed, missed that second to last one ... otherwise I wouldn't have asked. Thanks though, I'm sure someone didn't know that :smile:
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
693
Location
Memphis, TN
Format
35mm
dpn:

1. You can buy Kodak Final Rinse concentrate cheaply from Adorama, etc. Same stuff and it should last you years.
2. Don't add Photo-Flo to stabilizer. You don't need it.
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
693
Location
Memphis, TN
Format
35mm
First, you may be confusing washing aid and wetting agent. Photo-Flo is a wetting agent, which helps water dry off the film without spots. Washing aid, like Ilford Washaid, Kodak HCA, Berg Bath, etc., helps to neutralize remaining fixer while washing so that wash times are reduced. Neither wash aid nor wetting agent have to be used in C-41 processing.
After your fix or blix step, wash film with water continuously for at least three minutes, then stabilize for a minute and a half to two minutes. It should be the last thing to touch the film. It has a wetting agent in it already, so nothing further is needed.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom