BW reversal options

holmburgers · Apr 4, 2011

Wow Erik, looks pretty good.

So wait, you successfully used ammonium dichromate?? That's kind of a breakthrough me thinks!

You used sufite and metabisulfite? You like to live dangerously don't you?? (not implying that there's actually any danger... I wouldn't know either way)

If you havent' seen it, I posted a summary of Haist's chapter on Reversal Processing in this post... (there was a url link here which no longer exists) It's by no means comprehensive, but there are some revelations.

Erik L · Apr 4, 2011

holmburgers said:
Wow Erik, looks pretty good.

So wait, you successfully used ammonium dichromate?? That's kind of a breakthrough me thinks!

You used sufite and metabisulfite? You like to live dangerously don't you?? (not implying that there's actually any danger... I wouldn't know either way)

If you havent' seen it, I posted a summary of Haist's chapter on Reversal Processing in this post... (there was a url link here which no longer exists) It's by no means comprehensive, but there are some revelations.

Ammonium Dichromate, mixing the various sulfites together - you only live once

Thanks for posting the summary, it was interesting. Some things to try next time. It's nice to know that I am not
doing anything right in my reversal processing

regards
Erik

Sankt.Ahlomow · Apr 6, 2011

Hi,

try this:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

or direct link:
Dead Link Removed

It gives wonderful b/w slides.

Thomas

Erik L · Apr 7, 2011

Sankt.Ahlomow said:
Hi,

try this:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

or direct link:
Dead Link Removed

It gives wonderful b/w slides.

Thanks for the info Thomas!
regards
Erik

dr5chrome · Apr 8, 2011

..your using the published dr5 clear bath. this is published at several locations.
1 agent is missing however. This bath should be used for 4min.

dw

Erik L said:
I wondered about having to fix at the end as well. I did just to be sure there wasn't any lingering problems later on.

Here's an attempt at using a reversal processed ekfe pl100 8x10 neg on Ilfochrome. This negative is really rich to my eyes. I'm quite pleased but I do not have anything to compare it to except my other attempts. My reversal negs seem a little flat to me which works ok for Ilfochrome and I'm not sure how to increase the contrast with reversal processing.
d11 12 minutes
wash 2 minutes
bleach - ammonium dichromate + battery acid (I answered my own question whether ammonium dichromate can be substituted for potassium dichromate)
wash 1 minute
clear 2 minutes - sodium sulphite, sodium metabisulfite, citric acid
wash 1 minute
2nd developer sodium sulphide (10% solution used 1 + 5 )
wash 2 minutes
fix 5 minutes
this routine worked pretty idiot proof for me except maybe a little low in contrast for my liking.
regards
erik
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Erik L · Apr 8, 2011

dr5chrome said:
..your using the published dr5 clear bath. this is published at several locations.
1 agent is missing however. This bath should be used for 4min.

dw

Yes David, from the Darkroom cook book, I didn't have any boric acid handy. Now spill the beans and tell us where we are going wrong and what formulas to "really use"

regards
Erik

NDP_2010 · May 13, 2011

There is some great info in this thread. But I have some questions about aquiring some of the chemicals.
In the first post, the permangenate / sodium metabisulfate process seems the most simple and least of hazardous chemicals. I wonder if anyone knows where I could obtain some sodium metabisulfate for a reasonable price, and a relatively small quantity ( i checked google, but most sites are selling to industry).
Also anyone in Australia doing reversal process and have a recipe which contains chemicals that can be obtained without too much hassel? I can get permanganate without problem, its just obtaining the sodium metabisulfate.

thanks.

polyglot · May 13, 2011

I believe metabisulfite is available from brewery supply shops for use as a bottle cleaner.

NDP_2010 · May 13, 2011

is there any problem with using metabisulfite instead of metabisulfate?

eSPhotos · May 13, 2011

NDP_2010 said:
is there any problem with using metabisulfite instead of metabisulfate?

Try brewcraft for metasulphite.
http://www.brewcraftsa.com.au/showProduct/60001

If you are after bisulphate for bleach, use sulphuric acid instead. You can buy it from a battery shop.

Shoot me an email if you have difficulty getting these. I live in Sydney.

NDP_2010 · May 13, 2011

Ah I see. I was looking at this link: http://www.angelfire.com/wi/spqrspqr/photo/bwreversal.html and it mentions both bisulfate and metabisulfite.

So would using permanganate + sulfuric acid then using metabisulfite as a clearing bath work?
Also, what final concentration of the sulfuric acid is best to use?

eSPhotos · May 13, 2011

I mix 4g of permanganese in a litre of water and 35ml of sulphuric acid (34% solution) to a litre of water.
Mix 1:1 just before use. Once mixed the solution does not last long but if you keep 2 solutions separately they last quite long time.
For me, the hardest chemical to get in Aus was hypo (S thiosulphate).

eSPhotos · May 13, 2011

Ah, one more. Make sure you filter permanganese solution using coffee filter. Otherwise, it causes some blotches.

jrhilton · May 13, 2011

I used to use the "Speedibrews CELER REVERSER" kit about eight years ago. It was cheap (about £5 at the time?) and a quick search on Google suggests it is around £8 now if you can get hold of it?

It worked really well if you used one of the recommended films and you could process quite a few films with the kit before you needed a new one. Projected they really looked great, but I remember the slides were harder to scan than normal negatives after.

Ilford still publish a guide on how to reverse process their films too, though I never tried their method.

holmburgers · May 13, 2011

I will add that I personally see potassium dichromate as the hassle free choice. A solution of potassium dichromate & sulfuric acid will last indefinitely, whereas the permanganate bleach won't (as mentioned). This means less chemicals ultimately going down the drain, as you can reuse it over and over, potentially for years.

epatsellis · Jul 19, 2011

Interesting discussion. I've been wondering what to use the gallons of Kocak developing rack cleaner for, it's component bottles contain a 1-5% Pottasium Permagnate solution (part A), 5-<10% Sulphuric Acid (part B) and the neutralizer contains 15-20% sodium bisulphate, 5-10% sodium sulphite. (per the relevent MSDS sheets).

Assuming the balance is DI or distilled water, I should have the components for the permagnate bleach and neutralizer. (I do have some sodium sulfite here, nevertheless)

I also have Potassium Dichromate, as well as Ammonium Dichromate, so I suppose I could go either way with bleach formulations. Anybody care to help my rusty math skills to dilutions??? Or at least best guesses, if nothing else.

erie

Gerald C Koch · Jul 19, 2011

While most any BW film can be reversal processed the best results are with a film with a colorless film base. A colored base will lend a cast to the slides.

The reason for using sodium bisulfate instead of sulfuric acid is that it is safer to handle and easier to obtain.

jorj · Jul 21, 2011

Second holmburgers. I just processed 100' of reversal 16mm this weekend (Kodak 7266) with sulfuric acid (35%, from the auto store) and potassium dichromate. PQ 1+5 with added hypo for the first developer, PQ 1+9 for the second. As my nephew might say, easy-peasey.

Dead Link Removed

Not nearly as fun as having run out of sodium sulfate and making it from the sulfuric acid and baking soda, though.

BW reversal options

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