Bulk Loading 1000 foot load of 5222

[SodaAnt]

A friend who is getting out of film gave me a 1000 foot (no typo—one thousand feet) roll of Eastman 5222 (Double-X) that he bought at a swap meet with the intention of eventually bulk loading it.

Does anyone make bulk loaders that take 1000’ rolls? If not, what are my options for getting this film into 35mm cartridges?

 

[MattKing]

Thread title tweaked and moved to the black and white film sub-forum.

 

[Craig]

1000ft 135mm film bulkloader

* this bulk loader is made by order item, estimate deliver time is 30-45 days after order.compatible with 100/400/1000 ft of film, with our bulk loader, can load bulk film into 35mm film cassette at once.comes with teflon center film reel, compatible with 100/400/1000ft film reel.*1000ft film...

www.rezivot.com

Approx $1250 USD.

I'm sure you could make one, or wind off 100' at a time to use in a conventional bulk loader. You could set up a core and figure out the diameter of film that a 100' bulk loader takes and simply wind on the film ( in the dark of course) until it gets to the diameter that fits a 100' bulk loader and trim it off.
I'm sure you could make a cardboard go/no-go gauge to determine if the roll is smaller than it needs to be to fit in the 100' loader.

 

[rcphoto]

What is the diameter of a 1000' roll?

 

[Kino]

If you know someone good with CAD, you could scale this up from 400 foot to 1K foot and have it 3D printed fairly cheaply.

400ft to 100ft Bulk Film Respooler by broken_perfectionist

I designed a bulk film respooler to help convert 400ft rolls of film to the more commonly available 100ft spools. This was designed to be as small as possible so it can fit in your dark bag. UPDATE:Experimental Version 2.1 - 400ft-100ft BASE ONLYVersion 2.0 without sidewallsVersion 1.0 with...

www.thingiverse.com

I don't have those skills currently, much to my regret...

 

[SodaAnt]

1000ft 135mm film bulkloader

* this bulk loader is made by order item, estimate deliver time is 30-45 days after order.compatible with 100/400/1000 ft of film, with our bulk loader, can load bulk film into 35mm film cassette at once.comes with teflon center film reel, compatible with 100/400/1000ft film reel.*1000ft film...

www.rezivot.com

Approx $1250 USD.

Ouch! That's way more than I'd want to pay for what's essentially a one-off as I'm not likely to ever be given (or buy) any more 1000' rolls of film.

 

[SodaAnt]

What is the diameter of a 1000' roll?

I don't know as I've not opened the can. The can itself is about the diameter of an LP record.

It's amazing that even 1000' is only good for 11 minutes in a movie camera at 24 FPS. A two hour movie would require about 11 1000' reels, and, more realistically, more than that to allow for multiple takes, so, say 20 reels. At current retail prices, that's around $16,000, not including processing. Not bad, considering the multi-million dollar budgets of movies today.

One thing I found interesting researching this, is that according to Kodak's price list, the price for Double-X B&W film is the same as for their color negative film stocks.

 

[Kino]

You could buy a cheap Watson Bulk Loader, bandsaw off the 100' chamber and then graft it onto a 1000 ft metal can with some ingenuity.

I don't know as I've not opened the can. The can itself is about the diameter of an LP record.

It's amazing that even 1000' is only good for 11 minutes in a movie camera at 24 FPS. A two hour movie would require about 11 1000' reels, and, more realistically, more than that to allow for multiple takes, so, say 20 reels. At current retail prices, that's around $16,000, not including processing. Not bad, considering the multi-million dollar budgets of movies today.

One thing I found interesting researching this, is that according to Kodak's price list, the price for Double-X B&W film is the same as for their color negative film stocks.

I helped process 16K feet of 2366 today for 2 vintage features making picture master positives for archival purposes.

One of the largest single projects I ever worked on was preserving the outtakes for "The Louisiana Story" (1948) by Robert J. Flaherty. That was about 200,000 feet. Yep it takes a lot of film to make a film...

 

[SodaAnt]

One of the largest single projects I ever worked on was preserving the outtakes for "The Louisiana Story" (1948) by Robert J. Flaherty. That was about 200,000 feet. Yep it takes a lot of film to make a film...

I've heard that Francis Ford Coppola used about 1,500,000 feet of film filming Apocalypse Now. About $1.2M at today's prices (but probably far cheaper in the late 70s). Editing all that on a Moviola must have been a huge task.

 

[ic-racer]

I once split a 400ft roll into two 200ft rolls (my bulk loader takes 200ft rolls).

I did it on a counter top by hand, just spinning them. It was not too bad, knowing I only had to do it once.
If you bulk loader takes 200ft or 100ft, spinning that much off at a time would not be too hard.

 

[cmacd123]

I often take a 400ft roll and divide it in Half for my Alden 200 Loader, which takes 200ft loads.

I use a set of rewinds and what is called a "split reel." basicly two flanges with a core that screws together. My seond rewind was for use with a syncroniser, so it has room for several cores or spools or reels. I sandwidch a 100 ft 35mm Spool, between two antique 200ft 16mm spools. (they could be reels)

stick the fresh film in the splt reel, and wind onto the 100ft spool, BUT keep winding until the film is up to the size of the 200ft spools. (all by feel in the dark of course) the film will be over the edge of the 100ft spool, but that does not mater as you are going to put it in the loader. the remainder of the fresh stock goes back in the black bag, and then the can of course.

stopping to the 100ft spool size, would also work. with a few more odd size final rolls.

with taking 200 ft off the 400 foot fresh roll, the next time I can just put the remaining 200ft roll into the Alden 200. I take a core saved from a roll of bulk still film to fit inside the one inch center hole of the 2 inch core the film comes on.

40 years ago I did make a jig to wind to a 200 ft roll. I just set teh rolls of a small piece of Formica countertop saved from the installation of a kitchen sink. the formica was slipry enough to allow the film to turn without the risk if it spilling.

looking up this item : https://www.printfile.com/product/ap351000-35mm-1000ft-film-container/ we find a container for storing 1000 ft of processed film on a core, and see the internal diameter is 10.25″ so that is the ball park size of the raw roll.

 

[cmacd123]

I helped process 16K feet of 2366 today for 2 vintage features making picture master positives for archival purposes.

Yep it takes a lot of film to make a film...

EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Positive Film 2366 is a low speed blue sensitive laboratory film​

one of the ones sold as a novelty film (apperently https://filmphotographystore.com/products/35mm-bw-film-kodak-fine-grain-bw-1-roll ) film Photography project. --- a blinding ISO 6


as far as a lot of film, the old non digital methods of editing required that every shot that MIGHT be used in the finish film, be printed on a "workprint" which could be played with without worrying about damaging the camera negative. sort of a Movie Proof sheet. so doubling the volume of film. the workprint would be edited and then a specalist would use the edge numbers to cut the negative to match. A woman by the name of Mo Henry was the top specialist in that particular high stakes work.

 

[abruzzi]

how about starting with a cheap second hand core, then in a dark room jus manually spool from the large roll to a core until the core as maybe 3 inches across. Cut the fil put the small one in your film loader, and the big one in back in its can. repeat when you core runs out.

 

[madNbad]

A couple of questions. Do you have a sufficient supply of 2" cores to break it down for the average 100 foot bulk loader? Do you have enough light proof bags to store the rolls in? Do you have cans or boxes to store the light proof bags in?
A board with a couple of eBay winder cranks will make life a lot easier, if you have a darkroom or a room you can make light tight but you also have to be aware of dust and take care not to scratch the film.
It'll be a learning experience!

 

[Nokton48]

With 400 foot rolls of 5222, I sometimes go into my darkroom and use the "Tom Abrahamsson Method".

Hold onto the end of the roll, and pull off an "arm's length" of 5222. Then roll it up into a film cartridge. I have a formica table in my darkroom, I cut strips of masking tape the right length, attaching them to the table. Scissors I keep in my back pocket so I can keep track of them in the dark.

You need film cartridges that "pop" open (Ilford, Kodak Snap Caps, etc) masking tape, scissors, loading table, and total darkness.

No bulk loader, so no film scratching! With some practice it's not too bad to do in the dark. Very boring, put on some good music.

 

[koraks]

A couple of questions. Do you have a sufficient supply of 2" cores to break it down for the average 100 foot bulk loader? Do you have enough light proof bags to store the rolls in? Do you have cans or boxes to store the light proof bags in?
A board with a couple of eBay winder cranks will make life a lot easier, if you have a darkroom or a room you can make light tight but you also have to be aware of dust and take care not to scratch the film.
It'll be a learning experience!

Yeah, that's about the conceptual approach I took when I wanted to split a 400ft roll into ones of 100ft. I 3D printed the crank parts, even a few cores because I was one or two short, and used leftover boxes and bags (mostly small format paper bags). Then did the actual spooling in the darkroom. I just counted turns on the uptake spool to approximate the 100ft target length. The approach could fairly easily be scaled up to 1000ft rolls. Takes some planning (so good/valuable suggestions from you!), but it's doable.

 

[lamerko]

These 1000ft rolls are very inconvenient - both to store and to load. I have similar ones and know what this is about. Personally, I load cartridges manually - I find it a more practical solution, if a bit more inconvenient. When I enter the dark room with a 400ft roll, I have no particular discomfort. But with 1000ft it's quite boring for me.
Think about storage - if the big box can't be put in a freezer, you may need to roll it into 400ft. And be careful with static electricity - it's good to have something to ground yourself to periodically while working with the film...

 

[lamerko]

Yeah, that's about the conceptual approach I took when I wanted to split a 400ft roll into ones of 100ft. I 3D printed the crank parts, even a few cores because I was one or two short, and used leftover boxes and bags (mostly small format paper bags). Then did the actual spooling in the darkroom. I just counted turns on the uptake spool to approximate the 100ft target length. The approach could fairly easily be scaled up to 1000ft rolls. Takes some planning (so good/valuable suggestions from you!), but it's doable.

I recently printed a rewind crank from this project but haven't tried it yet. It strikes me that the core is large (2 inches) with little room left as for 100ft film. I have no idea how to measure this length either...

 

[Nokton48]

Consider the original Kodak 100 foot Daylight load 35mm Film Spool. I bought a very expensive roll of Tri-X Pan from B&H and that's how I got my 35mm daylight load spool. I roll in the dark until the core is filled up close to maximum. Then into the Watson (I have six around some were given to me). Minimum amount of scratching when respooling in the Watsons.

These 100 foot Daylight 35mm Film Spool also goes into 35mm Hollywood Movie Cameras. I guess the cameraman can reloaded in a shaded area? That's cool, but it works AOK for respooling XX from 400 footers as well. So buy some Kodak bulk film to get the 35mm spool, I also bought a spare on EBay it was cheap.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Kodak 100 foot Daylight load 35mm Film Spool

I'd love to know where to get one or two (or even four) of those. Urbanski doesn't even list them.

 

[Nokton48]

I'd love to know where to get one or two (or even four) of those. Urbanski doesn't even list them.

Buy a roll of Kodak Bulk film new or on Ebay. Load up the film and there's your can.

Or Here:

Vintage Kodak Film Metal Reel No. 10 Spool 35mm in canister tin Eastman USA | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage Kodak Film Metal Reel No. 10 Spool 35mm in canister tin Eastman USA at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Donald Qualls]

Cans aren't the problem, @Nokton48 -- I've got four or five empty ones -- but bulk still film doesn't come on a daylight spool, it's just a plain core. Much less useful for respooling from a larger roll in the dark. And Kodak doesn't sell rolls as short as 100' in cine film; 400' is their shortest offering these days.

That eBay link is just what I want, though -- again, don't really need the can, just the spool. Now I have to see if I can afford $40 (including shipping) this month...

The daylight spool like that makes it easy to be sure the film is going on the core evenly as well as providing a reference for when there's enough film on the spool -- plus they'll fit inside most bulk loaders, simplifying refills.

 

[Nokton48]

I know Donald. This reel just happens to still be with the can. Same as when I ordered fresh Tri-X from B&H. To get the film, but also mostly to get the spool. Once it's in the Watson, there's no need for a can. WOW It was expensive.

That one on Ebay is expensive, but Dude, there it is. If you can buy one I'll bet you'll like using it.

I have a boxful of motion picture film cores, I think they are useless to me. Fit motion picture cameras but not Watson loaders.

 

[SodaAnt]

These 100 foot Daylight 35mm Film Spool also goes into 35mm Hollywood Movie Cameras. I guess the cameraman can reloaded in a shaded area?

Why would they use 100 foot spools? That's only a little over a minute at 24 FPS. 400 foot is good for 4 min 26 sec and 1000 foot is good for 11 min 6 sec.

The cameraman typically doesn't load film--that's the job of 2nd assistant camera, who is also known as a clapper/loader. They load/unload film spools into the film magazines in big changing bags (although bigger sets sometimes have portable darkrooms).

 

[madNbad]

35mm microfilm reels are another option. The problem is you need to strip the microfilm off of the reel. They will hold a hundred feet of film and will fit in both the Alden and Loyd loaders.