Brownprint over Cyanotype

[pdeeh]

I've experimented with brownprints (VDB or Namias) over cyanotype without much success: the blue image usually fades in the brownprint stage almost to invisibility, despite heavily overexposing the cyanotype.

(There's an article about the approach at AlternativePhotogphy.com)

I wondered who else had tried this technique with success, and what tips they might have to offer?

 

[nmp]

I've experimented with brownprints (VDB or Namias) over cyanotype without much success: the blue image usually fades in the brownprint stage almost to invisibility, despite heavily overexposing the cyanotype.

(There's an article about the approach at AlternativePhotogphy.com)

I wondered who else had tried this technique with success, and what tips they might have to offer?

Hi, pdeeh:

Looks like not many people have tried this combo. I have tried none either together or individually - so I am uniquely qualified to comment (not.)

I do not have much in the way of ideas for alleviating your current problem of cyanotype image (b)leaching out when you apply the VDB chemistry. If I understand it correctly the prussian blue in the cyanotype (more so in the “old”) process has finite solubility in water. So brushing on the new sensitizer on top is causing the ferric ferrocyanide to re-dissolve. The question is whether after drying the VDB sensitizer, does the blue color come back or does it move around smearing the image and contaminating lighter areas like the highlights. If it is overall loss of density (but not the image definition) then may be there is some chemistry going on between ferric ferro and either the ferric Am citrate or the silver nitrate to form a colorless compound. I am not quite knowledgeable about that.

However, that got me to think (caution: armchair alternative process about to happen) what happens if you do the opposite, i.e. make the brown print first and then the cyanotype on top. If you do not tone the former, the image silver will react with the potassium ferri to form silver ferro, bleaching the image. This will cause the sensitizer to become deficient in K ferri (depending on how much is used) in the shadows. Now if you had added KBr to the sensitizer, you would end up with a latent image of the VDB with cyano chemistry on top. Then if you simply expose it without any negative, the VDB image with come back together with the cyanotype. Shadows will be mostly silver and the highlights will be mostly prussian blue and everything else in between. You will end up with a two-tone image like the one created by your reference, but in reverse.

I am sure in reality there will be all kinds of details that will in the end doom the above approach (as usually most of my armchair prognostications do.) May be worth a try, or not?

:Niranjan.

 

[pdeeh]

thanks for your reply Niranjan

hat happens if you do the opposite, i.e. make the brown print first and then the cyanotype on top.

hehe what happens is the brownprint disappears completely as the cyanotype solution contains Potassium Ferricyanide
(I have proved this empirically)

your current problem of cyanotype image (b)leaching out when you apply the VDB chemistry

Sorry though I should have been clearer - upon applying the brownprint solution over the top of the cyanotype, the cyanotype remains as strong as it was, and remains strong through to drying.
It's at the first wash after the brownprint has been exposed that it starts to fade.

I'll continue to experiment over the next few days.

 

[nmp]

hehe what happens is the brownprint disappears completely as the cyanotype solution contains Potassium Ferricyanide
(I have proved this empirically)

That's why I recommended adding KBr to the cyano sensitizer. So you can revive it later.

 

[nmp]

If you want to a simply beautiful combo of cyanotype - this one over Pt/Pd, check out Kenro Izu's work:

http://www.kenroizu.com/html/bl1.html

Normally cyanotype is not my cup of tea. But this combo works real well.

:Niranjan.

 

[removed account4]

hi pdeeh

i've never done this either but i read the a®ticle
have you tried coating different parts of the paper with VDB and cyanotype?
or massively dilute the VDB
so it won't be there as much to mess with the rest of the image?
the images in the article are beautiful i can see why you want to try it ..

 

[Bob Carnie]

I've experimented with brownprints (VDB or Namias) over cyanotype without much success: the blue image usually fades in the brownprint stage almost to invisibility, despite heavily overexposing the cyanotype.

(There's an article about the approach at AlternativePhotogphy.com)

I wondered who else had tried this technique with success, and what tips they might have to offer?

Cyanotype is Blue Brown Print is Yellow based, Complimentary colours that when mixed nuetralize each other.

I do Ochre Gum first coat, then Coat Cyan Blue Gum second, by wash out methods the ochre brown layer will come through and reveal itself.

Cyanotype and Platinum work really well by using two negatives, one for the blue and one for the brown, you may want to make two negs and with registration print both.

there are many samples of what I speak of in my media section.