Bronica ETRS vs. ... ETRS?

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RedSun

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The shutter button on the right of the GS-1 body and grip are electronic. However there is a separate mechanical shutter release (mirror pre-trigger) on the left side of the body, which allows 1/500 and T with the camera power off, or battery removed, and is the recommended release for long time exposures to limit battery consumption.

As I said clearly, I would not consider this as a mechanical trigger. Mechanical shutter release is only used in emergency situation and the strict sequence has to be followed. Or you will ruin your film.

Bronica says this very clearly in its manual:
There will be no shutter release action when there is no battery power. However, it will be possible to release the shutter at a mechanically-controlled 1/500 sec by reversing the mirror lock-up lever, after locking up the mirror first.

The shutter is only triggered electronically.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

As I said clearly, I would not consider this as a mechanical trigger. Mechanical shutter release is only used in emergency situation and the strict sequence has to be followed. Or you will ruin your film.

Bronica says this very clearly in its manual:
There will be no shutter release action when there is no battery power. However, it will be possible to release the shutter at a mechanically-controlled 1/500 sec by reversing the mirror lock-up lever, after locking up the mirror first.

The shutter is only triggered electronically.
Not sure why deny the fact that shutter WILL operate at 1/500 without battery, when it clearly will, including by your own admission.

Same goes for timed exposures. Bottom line really is that while these Bronicas are to be used with sufficient battery power at nearly all times, they are not totally dead when power is out, meaning anyone who says they are is not telling the whole truth.

All the same, it is important to note that timed exposures on any of these three Bronicas does not use power at all, while SQ Ai holds shutter opened in Bulb mode while draining battery.
 

RedSun

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Not sure why deny the fact that shutter WILL operate at 1/500 without battery, when it clearly will, including by your own admission.

Same goes for timed exposures. Bottom line really is that while these Bronicas are to be used with sufficient battery power at nearly all times, they are not totally dead when power is out, meaning anyone who says they are is not telling the whole truth.

All the same, it is important to note that timed exposures on any of these three Bronicas does not use power at all, while SQ Ai holds shutter opened in Bulb mode while draining battery.

I do not know where I deny it? Can you read my posts? Shutter trigger and shutter emergency release are two totally different things.

All ETR bodies and some SQ bodies can be "triggered" with the front trigger button. Some people even use the cameras without battery for extended time period, say during a ski trip when the battery is totally frozen dead. But I would not want to operate a GS-1 without battery for an entire day keep flipping mirror lock-up buttons.
 
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itsdoable

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... As I said clearly, I would not consider this as a mechanical trigger...
... Shutter trigger and shutter emergency release are two totally different things....
Emergency release or not, it still technically trips the shutter, so some people would still consider calling it a shutter release. But like you said, some don't, and that's fine.

What this really points out is that you should take a spare battery with you. Because emergency releases are for emergencies, and to be avoided. Even though I say that, I'm guilty of going out without a spare battery most of the time. Although when I go back country skiing, I do take a spare battery, but if you have ever tried to change the GS-1 battery in the field, I would not, when standing on a few meters of snow - as you will lose both batteries and the cover! It's more important to have a fresh battery.

And we really should get back to the Topic ETR/ETRS/ETRSi - which I really do not know that much about.
 
OP
OP

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I do not know where I deny it? Can you read my posts? Shutter trigger and shutter emergency release are two totally different things.

All ETR bodies and some SQ bodies can be "triggered" with the front trigger button. Some people even use the cameras without battery for extended time period, say during a ski trip when the battery is totally frozen dead. But I would not want to operate a GS-1 without battery for an entire day keep flipping mirror lock-up buttons.
I said deny because you keep calling it some silly name "emergency" or something (I don't really go out shooting with cameras to end up in a photo related emergency, too damn dark approach to the fun of shooting) . It trips the shutter and no need to argue how it is done. The whole point was about whether it does or not, and it does. Perhaps I should have worded it differently without the "deny" thrown in.

But, I have learnt something here in case GS-1 would come into my view. I did not realize it was designed to be basically triggered by an electro-magnetic switch with no mechanical way of doing the normal thing with it. There are advantages to it, but at least I know now.

Given the latter, how sensitive is that shutter button. Is there a learning curve like too light of a touch needed?
 

RedSun

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My GS-1 will trigger at 1/500 and T without a battery.

Emergency release or not, it still technically trips the shutter, so some people would still consider calling it a shutter release. But like you said, some don't, and that's fine.

What this really points out is that you should take a spare battery with you. Because emergency releases are for emergencies, and to be avoided. Even though I say that, I'm guilty of going out without a spare battery most of the time. Although when I go back country skiing, I do take a spare battery, but if you have ever tried to change the GS-1 battery in the field, I would not, when standing on a few meters of snow - as you will lose both batteries and the cover! It's more important to have a fresh battery.

And we really should get back to the Topic ETR/ETRS/ETRSi - which I really do not know that much about.

Your original statement can confuse some people. You sound like you get a special GS-1 camera that can trigger at 1/500 without a battery.

Here is an article about using ETR without the battery. He was fooled and used the camera for quite some time not aware that he needed a battery. He could not tell since the front "trigger" button worked the same way as usual. Not the case with GS-1.

https://www.stevenclark.com.au/2012/06/22/shooting-the-bronica-etrs-without-a-battery/
 

RedSun

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I said deny because you keep calling it some silly name "emergency" or something (I don't really go out shooting with cameras to end up in a photo related emergency, too damn dark approach to the fun of shooting) . It trips the shutter and no need to argue how it is done. The whole point was about whether it does or not, and it does. Perhaps I should have worded it differently without the "deny" thrown in.

But, I have learnt something here in case GS-1 would come into my view. I did not realize it was designed to be basically triggered by an electro-magnetic switch with no mechanical way of doing the normal thing with it. There are advantages to it, but at least I know now.

Given the latter, how sensitive is that shutter button. Is there a learning curve like too light of a touch needed?

There is nothing silly about it. I'm stating a fact and accurate fact. If you do not know, please ask, or look up the manual. Then you would understand what I've said.... Or better get a real camera in your hand, then you'll understand.
 

M-88

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The original ETR-S has more chrome color and more metal construction. But they are much older.
The newer ETR-S is all black, just like the ETR-Si. It is more plastic, just like the ETR-Si. It comes with the bulky motor winder and film backs with knobs to wind the film. The back release is two tabs. I'll get the ETR-Si instead of the plastic ETR-S.
The latest ETR-Si comes with a slim motor winder called Ei and film back Ei with two tabs and a winding crank to wind the film on the film back.
Actually, ETRSi is based on second (plastic) ETRS, so unless a user is into mirror lockup or OTF flash metering with an appropriate flash, the cameras are both the same, when it comes to build quality.

As for the backs, right now I'm holding an Ei back with a thumb wheel instead of crank. 'problem' here is that outer shell belongs to Ei back, while the magazine itself is of an older version. Their interchangeability confused me a lot, initially.
 
OP
OP

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There is nothing silly about it. I'm stating a fact and accurate fact. If you do not know, please ask, or look up the manual. Then you would understand what I've said.... Or better get a real camera in your hand, then you'll understand.
I'm not trying to get personal, so let's stop veering towards it.

"The SQ-Ai and GS-1 bodies won't do anything without battery."

THIS is what YOU said that started this exchange. Facts? What facts? Both will allow one to do something without power, this IS a fact.

After that you started coming up from the deep with your final "emergency" And you do know I referred to silliness of your "emergency" bit right? And then I said what "emergency". Not having power with you becomes an emergency? Fine.

However, it is an important piece of information, If camera allows for shutter release in a mechanical way, for example when checking one out before purchase at a garage sale or wherever. Knowing this, then finding one of these on a whim somewhere, unexpectedly ... one can try a few tricks, emergency or whichever ambulance we are in, and know quickly some functions are fine and perhaps worthy a consideration.

Back to your quoted statement, say someone reads that and only that and takes it at face value, then goes elsewhere, repeats same and the snowball keeps on rolling.

But I agree, facts are important, let's have that, so long as it s not a pure matter of one's opinion. You have your emergency and I have the fact of knowing some functions on SQ and GS can indeed operate without battery.
 
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Actually, ETRSi is based on second (plastic) ETRS, so unless a user is into mirror lockup or OTF flash metering with an appropriate flash, the cameras are both the same, when it comes to build quality.

As for the backs, right now I'm holding an Ei back with a thumb wheel instead of crank. 'problem' here is that outer shell belongs to Ei back, while the magazine itself is of an older version. Their interchangeability confused me a lot, initially.
For now I only have ETRSi. MLU is I think always worth having, even if not used frequently.

Have been looking at a few ETRS and earlier in the year I was close to getting a full kit of the "military" version, green on all pieces (including bellows hood) and in a dedicated case. It looked hardly used. Sadly I could not bring myself at the time to spending above a grand. Not sure how many of those Bronica made, they hardly show up on ebay, so probably has decent collector value. Speaking of special versions, the champagne color ETRSi does not kick me in the right places. New on a shelf maybe, but in use this thing must be getting old and ugly quick.

I've also noticed a convergence in prices between ETRSi and ETRS, probably more related to overall jump in film gear prices. Si is still generally higher, but given the MLU / flash TTL, I'd say it is worth 10-15% premium.
 

M-88

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For now I only have ETRSi. MLU is I think always worth having, even if not used frequently.

I've also noticed a convergence in prices between ETRSi and ETRS, probably more related to overall jump in film gear prices. Si is still generally higher, but given the MLU / flash TTL, I'd say it is worth 10-15% premium.
I agree on MLU: although leaf shutter has virtually no vibrations, the mirror slap is strong enough to ruin any shot under certain circumstances and I'd like to have it on my camera. The prices generally went up on all film gear, including even plastic autofocus cameras of the 80's. So if you're looking for something specific, now might be a good time to stack it up.

Have been looking at a few ETRS and earlier in the year I was close to getting a full kit of the "military" version, green on all pieces (including bellows hood) and in a dedicated case. It looked hardly used. Sadly I could not bring myself at the time to spending above a grand. Not sure how many of those Bronica made, they hardly show up on ebay, so probably has decent collector value. Speaking of special versions, the champagne color ETRSi does not kick me in the right places. New on a shelf maybe, but in use this thing must be getting old and ugly quick.
According to some sources it is called "safari" version and it was in production between 1982 and 1988. However I couldn't find anything more than that. I would gladly own a chrome version, but can't afford it.
 
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OP
OP

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I agree on MLU: although leaf shutter has virtually no vibrations, the mirror slap is strong enough to ruin any shot under certain circumstances and I'd like to have it on my camera. The prices generally went up on all film gear, including even plastic autofocus cameras of the 80's. So if you're looking for something specific, now might be a good time to stack it up.


According to some sources it is called "safari" version and it was in production between 1982 and 1988. However I couldn't find anything more than that. I would gladly own a chrome version, but can't afford it.
SAFARI it is. I remember thinking the army when I saw that one. For some reason this one looks to me more attractive than the chrome one. Chrome appears to be more frequently available though than the green.
 

M-88

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macfred

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There were some ETR, ETRS and ETRSi 'Special Edition' cameras like the Safari ETRS, the Transparent Display ETRSi, the 40th Anniversary Limited Edition ETRSi, the ''William Fox Talbot'' 150th Anniversary Special Edition ETRSi and some more ...
https://camerapedia.fandom.com/wiki/Zenza_Bronica_ETR
 

macfred

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A year ago I was lusting for a 1996 chrome Special Edition Bronica ETRSi on ebay but in the end it was about 1000,-

Bildschirmfoto 2020-01-04 um 10.08.40.png
 

RedSun

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I'm not trying to get personal, so let's stop veering towards it.

"The SQ-Ai and GS-1 bodies won't do anything without battery."

THIS is what YOU said that started this exchange. Facts? What facts? Both will allow one to do something without power, this IS a fact.

After that you started coming up from the deep with your final "emergency" And you do know I referred to silliness of your "emergency" bit right? And then I said what "emergency". Not having power with you becomes an emergency? Fine.

However, it is an important piece of information, If camera allows for shutter release in a mechanical way, for example when checking one out before purchase at a garage sale or wherever. Knowing this, then finding one of these on a whim somewhere, unexpectedly ... one can try a few tricks, emergency or whichever ambulance we are in, and know quickly some functions are fine and perhaps worthy a consideration.

Back to your quoted statement, say someone reads that and only that and takes it at face value, then goes elsewhere, repeats same and the snowball keeps on rolling.

But I agree, facts are important, let's have that, so long as it s not a pure matter of one's opinion. You have your emergency and I have the fact of knowing some functions on SQ and GS can indeed operate without battery.

I do not know who wants to get this into personal. We can see your language I highlighted in bold. You kept using derogatory words like silliness, assertion and more. I first thought it is your knowledge of English. But it appears this is only half correct.

Also you made other derogatory remarks about Soviet engineers vs. Japanese engineers. I have nothing to do with all of them. I know politically you probably do not like Soviet stuff, but this is not the place to vent your anger.

I guess this is not a pure culture thing, but more of a personal thing. Some people just like to go negative and like to argue.
 

RedSun

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A year ago I was lusting for a 1996 chrome Special Edition Bronica ETRSi on ebay but in the end it was about 1000,-

View attachment 237468
I have this one in box. Still brand new. I also have the special edition in brown leather. I've sold several special edition camera kits. Have owned and seen pretty much all of them.

This is the reason I do not like to argue with some people who have never seen them in person.... They do not even know the differences of all the bodies and film backs. When we tell them, they do not listen.

IMG_7834 2.jpg
 
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macfred

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^

A nice collection you've got !

--
I'm was very happy when this ETRS(i) thread came up, because I really like the Bronica camera systems. But I'm a little bit dissapointed about what we have now ... There's no need to argue. Enjoy !
 

RedSun

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^

A nice collection you've got !

--
I'm was very happy when this ETRS(i) thread came up, because I really like the Bronica camera systems. But I'm a little bit dissapointed about what we have now ... There's no need to argue. Enjoy !

The good items do not go down in value and prices.

Yes I felt the same way. I tried to help to answer a question. Then someone won't get over it with the wording. I'd be humble if I do not know things and seek help.
 

John Koehrer

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Gotta keep beating that dead horse!
Gosh, I want to get the last word in over a difference of interpretation.
 
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