Bronica ETR film backs

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 30, 2019

This question is about reliability between all 3 vintages of ETR backs. All I have is the latest ones with grey handle on dark slide and flip-up film winding crank.

The older ones had: single back release latch (I won't be getting this anyways) and then film winding was either a thumb wheel or a flip-up half circle handle.

Any experiences with any of those in (specifically) reliability and / or operation? Has the dark slide light trapping been changed / re-designed over time? (meaning the entry slot as there have been some problems reported, but no idea which vintage it applied to)

choiliefan · Dec 30, 2019

I wonder if the film inserts themselves are different between earliest and latest model backs?

RedSun · Dec 30, 2019

The original film backs have one locking tab, and the film winding is like half moon shape flipper. This should be avoided because the locking tab can break down. And the film backs are really old.
The film backs (called late?) changed with the updated ETR-S (black body). Newer film backs some with two locking tabs and the winding is knob on the side. I think the dark slide still black color plastic.
The latest film backs (Ei?) have two locking tabs and flip down winding crank to forward the film. I believe the dark slide handle changed to grey color (not sure when).
The dark slide added the locking mechanism, probably with the Ei version.
There is not much difference with the "late" and "Ei" backs in terms of functionalities. The white arrows on the locking tabs may be slightly different with Ei having a longer arrow.

In general, the inserts and shells of "late" and "Ei" can inter-change. But they may not fit really well the older film backs. That should be avoided.

abruzzi · Dec 30, 2019

I've never had a single release back--all mine are double release. One of my double release backs was old and beaten. It had a black handle on the dark slide, and the dark slide did not lock in place when the back was off the camera. (I don't know if this was by design, or because it was broken.) One of the two releases on that back was very loose and could spin around. My fix was simple--I found the newest 220 back I could find for $20, and replaced the 220 insert with the 120 insert. That way the futzy back has the 220 insert (since I don't have any 220 film), and the nice newer back had the 120 insert from the older back. I don't know if an even older (i.e. single release) back and insert are compatible with newer backs and inserts, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

RedSun · Dec 30, 2019

abruzzi said:
I've never had a single release back--all mine are double release. One of my double release backs was old and beaten. It had a black handle on the dark slide, and the dark slide did not lock in place when the back was off the camera. (I don't know if this was by design, or because it was broken.) One of the two releases on that back was very loose and could spin around. My fix was simple--I found the newest 220 back I could find for $20, and replaced the 220 insert with the 120 insert. That way the futzy back has the 220 insert (since I don't have any 220 film), and the nice newer back had the 120 insert from the older back. I don't know if an even older (i.e. single release) back and insert are compatible with newer backs and inserts, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

You can mix the insert and shell from different generations. But it is not recommended. No point to save $30 and ruin rolls of films.

moto-uno · Dec 31, 2019

^ How perchance does it ruin rolls of film ? I ask this because I own an Etrs and an Etrsi and numerous backs and inserts .
These I change frequently, sometimes , just 'cuz I can , and haven't noticed any differences , am I just lucky ? Peter

moto-uno · Dec 31, 2019

And everybody , have a great New Year , Peter

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 1, 2020

moto-uno said:
^ How perchance does it ruin rolls of film ? I ask this because I own an Etrs and an Etrsi and numerous backs and inserts .
These I change frequently, sometimes , just 'cuz I can , and haven't noticed any differences , am I just lucky ? Peter

I don't think there is any basis to make a claim inserts are not interchangeable between back shells. All of it being precision tooled on manufacturing front, Bronica would have been known for serious quality control issues had there been differences piece to piece large enough to make such a claim stick. And think about production headaches matching each insert to shell before distribution for the however many thousands made over the years.

Now, if we think about Soviet camera making, then we're speaking to the choir.

Happy New Year

RedSun · Jan 1, 2020

No one claims anything. It is based on actual experience. It has nothing to do with quality control. Japanese or Soviet...

The Bronica ETR series were made from 1976 to 2004, that is 28 years. The film backs have undergone at least 3-4 major designs. The inserts and shells were never guaranteed to be 100% compatible across generations, or mis-matched.

moto-uno · Jan 1, 2020

^ So I'm just lucky ? Peter

RedSun · Jan 1, 2020

moto-uno said:
^ So I'm just lucky ? Peter

You should feel you always lucky...

The last two major designs, both "late" and "Ei" should fit each other well. But the much older single latch backs are different story.

moto-uno · Jan 1, 2020

^ Well that's interesting , over the years of collecting Etrs backs I've always shied away from the single latch backs , more good luck , Peter

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 1, 2020

RedSun said:
You should feel you always lucky...

The last two major designs, both "late" and "Ei" should fit each other well. But the much older single latch backs are different story.

As far as I can tell nothing has ever changed in overall shape or dimensions in these backs, from first to last. All they had done were refinements in how they are operated, so the double latch only changed how the locking sliders are engaged, the winding was nothing else but ergonomy. The only thing that might have been changed, and drove me to ask, was the dark slide entry point light sealing (even if I actually doubted that was the case).

And yes, regarding your assertion about incompatibility over the production samples, it has a lot to do with tooling used and quality control.

I brought up Soviet era gear as they are known for complete lack of that and huge final quality differences piece to piece. The latter being main reason for hearing opinions from very good to complete junk about same camera from same production year. Japanese on the other hand, had high quality precision production for a long time and I'd say from about mid sixties on.

RedSun · Jan 1, 2020

Witold said:
As far as I can tell nothing has ever changed in overall shape or dimensions in these backs, from first to last. All they had done were refinements in how they are operated, so the double latch only changed how the locking sliders are engaged, the winding was nothing else but ergonomy. The only thing that might have been changed, and drove me to ask, was the dark slide entry point light sealing (even if I actually doubted that was the case).

And yes, regarding your assertion about incompatibility over the production samples, it has a lot to do with tooling used and quality control.

I understand that English is probably not your first language, but the words you use and the way you talk is troublesome.

I only tell my experience from handling many and many Bronica equipment, pretty much all lines. It is not any assertion or any such kind.

I never assert that those film backs are incompatible. I only said there is no guarantee that the inserts and shells from over 28 years production can mix and fit well. I never have had troubles mixing the "late" and "Ei" backs. But I've had a lot trouble mixing the really old chrome backs with single latch with the newer ones. You or some others may have better luck. Just maybe.

Please read, think and think more before you click the "send" button...

Johnkpap · Jan 2, 2020

The only problems I have encountered with ETR backs is that the old single catch types... the catch can fail after many many years of use, and I have had one of the plastic wheel inserts fail as well

I have also had to replace all the foam seals on my backs

I have had no problem mix and matching inserts and backs

Johnkpap

macfred · Jan 2, 2020

macfred said:
Two older backs here - one with a small foldable crank (''ETR'' written on the backside) and another with the thumb wheel (no letters on this one) - both working like they should.

I noticed that the darkslide (black handle) that came with the 'thumb wheel - back' does not lock the shutter when using it with the newer 'crank' - back (which came with a grey handle darkslide).

Edit :

I can detach my oldest back from the ETRSi bodies even when there's no dark slide in.

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 2, 2020

macfred said:
I noticed that the darkslide (black handle) that came with the 'thumb wheel - back' does not lock the shutter when using it with the newer 'crank' - back (which came with a grey handle darkslide).

Edit :

I can detach my oldest back from the ETRSi bodies even when there's no dark slide in.

Have you compared black vs grey handle dark slides side by side? If what you experienced is intended by design, there must be an obvious difference. I assume that same back with grey slide does lock shutter and the black slide with thumb wheel back also does?

macfred · Jan 2, 2020

The black handle darkslide only works with the older back; the grey handle one works with both backs.
Grey vs black handle darkslide to see the difference:

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 2, 2020

macfred said:
The black handle darkslide only works with the older back; the grey handle one works with both backs.
Grey vs black handle darkslide to see the difference:
View attachment 237312

Aha, so we have found a critical difference, thanks. I was sopping for latest versions and so far this seems to be the way to go, barring some super bargain and perhaps use of a back for some modification project.

choiliefan · Jan 2, 2020

You could notch a black-handled one with a Dremel abrasive cut-off blade.

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 2, 2020

choiliefan said:
You could notch a black-handled one with a Dremel abrasive cut-off blade.

For one who's got them it sure is a solution. Sucks to be able to pull out the dark slide with back off and film inside. Bad Bronica, real bad.

RedSun · Jan 2, 2020

Witold said:
For one who's got them it sure is a solution. Sucks to be able to pull out the dark slide with back off and film inside. Bad Bronica, real bad.

Maybe Bronica hired some Soviet engineers to design the film backs.

Seriously, we have been using those film backs for many many years. I have never had any incident to ruin my film. It is the knowledge.

Also, you'll need to match the dark slides with the correct film backs, or the locking mechanism has no effect. You can say this is my assertion.

Good luck with it.

choiliefan · Jan 2, 2020

Finally, the end of the thread.

moto-uno · Jan 2, 2020

moto-uno · Jan 2, 2020

So as a follow up , the two backs on the left have a serial # starting with 83 . The right arrow indicates the tab that locks the dark slides that have a small notch . The tab on the
left hand side is also metal instead of plastic , as on the right hand back with serial # starting with 81 . The dark slides without the notch fit well in both backs , but don't lock with
the backs off , so be careful.

Bronica ETR film backs

Deleted member 88956

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