Bride wants to keep the negs

[Christopher Nisperos]

If her goal is cheap prints, why not just scan the negs and give her a CD-ROM or DVD? Most "layman" can't see the difference between a good and lousy print anyway (admittedly, a bad attitude for a professional, however in your case...um..perhaps you should bite the bullitt?).

I've lived through the same experience ... thing is —unless she excepts a compromise such as I -or other posts here- have suggested, you're between a rock and a hard place. Why? If you give up the negs —or if you don't— there will probably be lingering hard feelings on one-or-the-other side for the rest of your life(s).

Therefore, another option is to consider the whole episode as a lesson (thereby softening your hard feelings!) and give her the negatives ... then give her the link to this thread so she knows what the norms are in such a situation (afterall, that's the basis of the problem .. you forgot to tell her beforehand!), and so she'll know how difficult is was for you to make the decision!

Hope it turns out well. As mentioned in previous posts, next time maybe it'd be better to not have a next time.


Christopher

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[pcyco]

hallo

@christopher: a good idea (to give her the link to this thread).

ag

thomas

 

[dmr]

First thing the next morning she shows up at the room and hands me a list of the places i'm going to be for the day and who i'm photographing, it was a long list.
[munch]
Then the bad bit, she came back looking for 147 prints out of the darkroom and said she would call it the wedding present.

LOL! (sorry), can you say "Bridezilla"? (Edit: somebody beat me to it!)

I thought you could.

And people still wonder why I won't touch a wedding with a 11 foot pole!

 

[John Koehrer]

I guess if you're going to keep the negs - then simply tell her "that's like asking a painter to surrender their paint..!"

Blank canvas & set of oils?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

More like asking a painter to surrender his brushes after he paints the canvas so he can't paint another like it, or so you can copy it the same way whenever you want to.

 

[Simon E]

As for why she wants the negs, she wants to take them to CVS Drugstore for cheap reprints, because I'm too expensive.

Never again for friends. If they're friends, I'll either give it all away for free or not do it. This 'trying to cover my costs' thing is just a losing battle.
N

Tell her she can borrow the negs to print them but they belong to you. You might as well save yourself the grief and relinquish the negatives if she perseveres. Remember not to waste any of your time on them in future. People, huh.

Shooting for friends can be done, but it depends very much on the friends themselves. I've just had a lovely letter from a friend's daughter who wanted me to do the photos because she knew me well, was happy with my style and was relaxed enough with my "I'll do my best but if they don't work out that's just a shame" position. That's my getout clause - I'm not a pro and don't charge pro rates. I never promise any more.

 

[jd callow]

I personally wouldn't consider it, even for a friend. The foremost reason is that you want to control the quality of the prints. There's no reason for the bride to take them if you're willing to do the prints at cost.

My answer would be a firm no. With a friendly smile.

- CJ

Excellent answer.

 

[JohnArs]

Hi all
I did over 80 weddings and in the beginning I alway hold the negs in my home but soon I realized that it just takes much space and thos nothing for me.
So now i always sell them for a cheap prices after the album was made, by me if someone will the the album by them selfs the can do it I just deliver the pictures.
If I like a picture very much the I make a highres scann for my on record and for use for my map.
Don't take it all to seriously, life is life!
Armin

 

[clay]

Maybe this:

"You're never going to believe what happened. I had the negatives in my car planning on bringing them to you. But I decided to get the car washed. I was bored in the wash, so I pulled out my ipod, and turned it on. When I selected the Guns'N'Roses song I wanted to listen to, all the electric windows in my car suddenly went down, and hot soapy water drenched the interior of the car. Unfortunately, the negatives were on the seat and were soaked through. They all stuck together, and when I tried to pull them apart, the emulsion came off. What are the odds? Anyway, if you still want them, I can give you what is left."


Now, you either get to keep them, or you get to run them through your dishwasher just prior to delivery. Everybody wins, either way. Hah!

 

[MattKing]

My greatest concern has always been the quality of the prints that end up floating around.

I am assuming you used 35mm. If not, the best out might be "you'll find that you'll need a professional lab to do the work anyways, so you may as well have me have my lab do them for you at cost".

If the bride is likely to be able to appreciate quality, I'd try getting a pro lab to do a good, sharp, well colour balanced print (say a 5x7), and then get one done from the same negative at Walmart. If there is a clear difference in the quality, use the comparison as an example and explain why you want to keep control over the printing.

I certainly have had clients say to me that my MF 4x5 or 5x5 wedding proofs were just so much sharper and clearer than the hundreds of other photos taken and shared with them.

Who knows, you might convert a bride and groom to the joys of higher quality film and processing

Matt

 

[Gay Larson]

I did a small wedding for a friend quite a few years ago and gave her pictures as a wedding gift. She asked me for the negatives and I said I never give my negatives up. I didn't realize she would not understand and she basically never talked to me again except to tell me she was mad that I would not give her the negatives. I am still puzzled that she got that mad. Actually now that I look back on it, I had no real need for the negatives and wish I had given them to her. I haven't ever given negatives to anyone though. I guess she really was not that great of a friend anyway.

 

[MattKing]

I did a small wedding for a friend quite a few years ago and gave her pictures as a wedding gift. She asked me for the negatives and I said I never give my negatives up. I didn't realize she would not understand and she basically never talked to me again except to tell me she was mad that I would not give her the negatives. I am still puzzled that she got that mad. Actually now that I look back on it, I had no real need for the negatives and wish I had given them to her. I haven't ever given negatives to anyone though. I guess she really was not that great of a friend anyway.

Gay:

Your comment brings home to me something that I know, but don't always appreciate enough.

Photographers value things like negatives much more than most people.

Your friend probably considers having possession of negatives as a convenience. You probably consider holding negatives as a trust. It is unlikely that your expectations can be caused to coincide, unless you can make a photographer out of your friend, in which case it is likely that he or she would treat them as well as you would.

To everyone posting here or reading the thread, it seems that the best advice is to discuss this ahead of time.

This is coming from a photographer who has photographed a fair number of weddings, still has the negatives for most, but has given a few sets to the loving couple as well.

Oh and by the way, I enjoy photographing weddings, although I don't know that I will necessary do more of them (you sort of have to be young, or practicing regularly).

Matt

 

[film_guy]

I've done wedding photography professionally, and unless the bride pays a pre-determined sum for their negs, they will only get prints or albums done from me as the "finished" product. My reason for doing so? To prevent my work from being printed badly at a lab, or to prevent the bride from doing a bad Photoshop work and lower the quality of her photos.

If I'm doing my friend's wedding though, it'll depend on how close of a friend the person is and how long I've known him or her. It's tough enough to find true friends in this day and age, and no negatives are worth the price of losing a true friend. Life is too short to be making enemies out of friends.

 

[gr82bart]

Hmmm ... the more I read threads like this, the more I shake my head in disbelief of some people.

Anyway, here's what I did for a close friend of mine when she asked me to shoot her wedding (and offered to pay too, which I declined) - I shot the negs, I made prints and I gave the couple the negs too. Why? Because she was a friend, it was her wedding and that was my gift.

Regards, Art.

 

[BrianShaw]

... I had no real need for the negatives...

This is the bottom line for me.

I had a similar experience as Gay reports, except the person I made mad later became my boss. (How's that for making life interesting for a while!) At the time of the wedding she was just an acquaintance at work - what some might call "a friend".

Since I am not shooting weddings for a living I now realize that all of the negs I hold from "jobs" shooting parties, etc. for friends are just more clutter around my house. I can honestly say that I have never printed for myself a picture shot on one of these "assignments".

A couple of years ago I was asked by a "friend" to shoot the big Sweet-16 they were throwing for their daughter. The deal was that they would provide me with a big bag of film (whatever I asked for) and I'd return to them at the end of the night a big bag of expsoed film and they would take care of pocessing and printing. I worried about them seeing my goofs (which, of course, there were some). In the end, these folks have raved about the results ever since... and are even more appreciative than some people to whom I delivered "professional quality proofs/enlargements".

Perhaps I've let my standards lapse, but it sure makes me feel good to shoot film knowing that I've made some good images and at the same time made a friend happy.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

If I weren't making my living with photography and didn't have a professional reputation to protect, I'd possibly feel differently. As it is, though, I won't risk my reputation for high quality work for anything.

 

[Christopher Nisperos]

My greatest concern has always been the quality of the prints that end up floating around. Matt

Good point. When a bride —or any client— brings negatives to a cheap amateur lab*, the photographer won't be there to defend him-or-herself when the photos are picked-up if (or when!) the lab screws up.

The "layman" photo viewer will always blame the photographer, not the lab, for badly printed pictures. This is sometimes true even when the layman has been forewarned! Plus, they will never complain (to your face).
They will, however, "warn" potential prospects about your "off-color" work... "But he is a nice guy!".

I repeat —whatever you decide— it's perhaps not such a bad idea to show your bride this thread. Then, she might-well realize that her wedding pictures are far too important to try to save a few dollars on (not to mention the time and hassle of going back-and-forth to a lab after squinting, numbering, coordinating and organizing prints and negs .. if time is money, what will she have saved?). Come to think of it, if she's wise she'd insist that you keep the negatives!

Best,

Chris

*You can be blamed even when a professional lab screws up!
.

 

[timeUnit]

I think there is an easy solution to this, if you're digitally inclined.

Scan the best negs, fix them up in PS to look OK. Then resize them to an appropriate "costco" size and burn them on a CD, or two. She can print hundreds of these prints if she wants to, but not beyond a certain size (or they'll look crappy). You don't want to do the costco-prints anyway, but if they want some nice big print, they get back to you and you fix them up. It's an easy and more convenient way for all.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I have not read any of the posts in this thread but here are my thoughts on this issue and I think I will piss off a few people but what the hey.
I photographed quite a few weddings years ago and I am really glad that I gave the negatives to the couple.
Unless you truly believe that the bride and groom will order prints 10 years from now*considering the divorce rate not bloody likely* All you are doing is opening yourself to becoming a storage unit for these negatives.
So twenty years goes by, the colour negs have faded, you have held onto their work for this time, moved it 10 times in 20years, You get lucky and the bride calls you up, Dear Sir/Madam I would like a print off my wedding you photographed in 1986 at your studio, you go retreive the negative from storage, *which by the way you have been paying for 20 years* put it in the enlarger and find out that the negative has huge cyan blobs on it from uneven fading. You have to digitally restored the negative , since you are a reptuable photographer, $300 later she orders a 5x7 print.
I got out of wedding photography specifically for the fading issue on colour work, one may say shoot black and white and make fibre prints, well it didn't work this way when I was doing weddings, every single bride wanted colour prints with absolutely no black and white. I am really glad with my decision today. Mr Filipovich who I apprenticed with did fibre weddings from 1950 to 1972 , I joined him in 1976 and he would reminice about how his work in black and white which stood the test of time and unwittingly scared me into making the decision of not taking over his studio when he retired.
Make your portfolio prints , do the print order right now then give her the negatives for reasonable fee you are comfortable with and move on.
I see absolutely no reason whatsoever for holding onto a brides negatives after your initial contract and print sales are fufiled.

My business partner is a working commercial photographer. In the last few years we have seen ZERO sales from past commercial photographic work, I can assure you , a wedding today falls into this catagory.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

Bob, when you do read the posts that came before yours, you'll see that the concerns voiced about giving away negs have little or nothing to do with money.

- CJ

 

[jd callow]

In the last few years we have seen ZERO sales from past commercial photographic work, I can assure you , a wedding today falls into this catagory.

I've seen this as well. Most everything I've shot (almost entirely architecture) in the last 5 years has resulted in scans, proof prints and very few prints. I've used the photographs for my client's advertisements, web, contest/competitions, editorial work, and the very occasional display print. If I were shooting weddings (god forbid) I would only do it if I thought I'd get a print order afterwards. If this is no longer the case I'd not bother as I too wouldn't want my reputation to be tarnished by a CVS film guy.

I think (there was a url link here which no longer exists) earlier in the thread.

Weddings have to be one of the highest risk/stress photographic jobs out there.

 

[resummerfield]

One more thing to consider about the photographer’s reputation. The photographer and the bridal couple were “friends”, and special arrangements were made on the basis of friendship. If the photographer does not give the bride the negs, the bride may feel betrayed. The bride may not only drop the photographer as a friend, but may also “bad mouth” the photographer forever. What would that do to the photographer’s reputation?

 

[film_guy]

Weddings have to be one of the highest risk/stress photographic jobs out there.

Wedding photography might be stressful and high risk, but it's nothing compared to being a conflict photographer working in a war zone.

 

[jd callow]

good point.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hi Cheryl
I delibertly did not read any of the posts as I wanted to be the 2nd post to the original question without any influences from other people so if my post was off the mark I apologize.
I am in the middle of a very unfortunate for photographer/fortunate for me situation. This photographer has walked into my shop, with basically 40 years of studio work, I am to prepare a series of limited edition prints that this photographer has produced . Over 50 original film capture to make 1 artist proof then limited editions after the photographer approves my interpetation of the images.
1/3 are Black and White negs and 2/3 are colour, I am to make suggestions on the best possible method of output. To my earilier post , I have decided to recommend scanning and then converting all the prints to Black and White and print on the Harmon Fibre Paper and double tone for permanence. The photographer has accepted my recommondation and is proceeding in B&W even though 2/3 are spectacular colour images.
After scanning the bulk of the colour , it is obvious, cyan shadows,red/magenta midtones and highlights. If converted to BW this cross curve is not obvious but if I try to stay to colour it would take a PS wizard much more experienced than myself to bring them back to any sort of pleasing balance.To my earlier point, the photographer is in a very difficult and sad position and I really feel for this person as ones lifes work should not boil down to this issue.
This issue in my mind is the hidden, problem for those chosing a photographic career which deals with imagery that needs to stand the test of time. I know too many mid career Wedding/Portrait photograhers who are dreading the phone calls from clients who have over the years brought in all their familys and friends for important events and have insisted on colour film even with the photographer suggesting putting in B&W. This issue is real and of importance to a budding photographer to consider.
I guess I am trying to warn the OP the pitfalls of the current wedding/portrait world* which John points out as a very stressful job* and even though it may be the start of a successful business, film selection ,permanent archiving of the images that ones starts their career with are more important than the decision of whether giving the negs to a Bride. BTW i do not agree with giving up the negatives until the entire print order and wedding album and wall prints are done. Even if it takes five years for the lovely couple to make up their mind. After this financial deal is completed I would give away the negatives, unless of course the bride is Madonna.

My posts may seem off base to the original question , but this issue is close to my heart as I started my professional career as a wedding/portrait assistant for four years after specializing in portraiture in photoschool.
It gave me a lot of grief to change my direction after 6 years of walking in one direction.

Bob, when you do read the posts that came before yours, you'll see that the concerns voiced about giving away negs have little or nothing to do with money.

- CJ