Blobs near the edge of developed 120 film in new tank/2 reels

[michaelbothager]

You know that little rod that comes with every Paterson tank? Paterson recommends that you do your initial agitation with the rod. Then continue with the standard inversion agitation for the rest of the cycle.

Thanks, and yes, I've tested that too. After twisting, no bubbles. After first inversion/3xtaps... bubbles :/

Rgds
Michael

 

[ced]

I would take the reels and give them a good scrubbing with a toothbrush and some dish soap to get the plastic to be less shiny which may help the bubbles to not cling to the reels give them a thorough wash after.
I think using distilled water is over the top, the water you get for your steam iron (demineralised) is good enough. Add 1 drop of wetting agent to your prewash water.

 

[michaelbothager]

I would take the reels and give them a good scrubbing with a toothbrush and some dish soap to get the plastic to be less shiny which may help the bubbles to not cling to the reels give them a thorough wash after.

I've scrubbed them a few times by now, no change. Do you think a hard nail brush will scratch them too much? The scratches may become more difficult to clean later on, when the reels are getting older (if I keep them, that is).

Rgds
Michael

 

[ced]

Maybe a bit of "VIM" abrasive washing powder and a soft toothbrush might be better, only guessing and you can only try...

 

[voceumana]

Here are some ideas I have.

1. The surface finish (texture) on the reels is different enough for the bubbles to cling to its surface. I suspect a smooth surface is better than a textured one, so don't use an abrasive.

2. Have you tried developing one roll in a two-roll tank with an empty reel above the one loaded with film? It really is best for agitation as the air space above the loaded reel permits the development by-products to disperse equally thoughtout the solution. Ensure that the lower reel is fully covered with liquid plus some.

3. You might try boiling your water before mixing the developer. A good 20 minutes is supposed to precipitate any dissolved solids, but it also removes air that is dissolved in the water. Let it cool before to the correct temperature before mixing the developer. You can try this without mixing the developer (i.e., just boiled water) to see if you get air bubbles.

4. Maybe adding some alcohol to the developer could reduce the surface tension of the developer enough to break the bubbles. Ethanol is probably best, but isopropyl alcohol will probably be fine. Make the alcohol about 5 to 10% of the solution (as a guess).

 

[mnemosyne]

Thank you, but the sample image is with demineralized water... still lots of bubbles sticking to the reel. The water here in Denmark is a bit more expensive, approx. € 5,30 for 5 liters is the lowest price I've found.

Rgds
Michael

A couple of years ago I had some nasty problems with excessive foaming when using Xtol in the specific combination with Harman/Ilford manufactured films like HP5+ and Kentmere 400. Using deionized water for mixing Xtol alone didn't help. It was still foaming like crazy after 4 or 5 minutes. When I removed the cap of the tank, the foam would flow out of the tank ... It seems both the developer and the film contain some sort of surfactant that work kind of "superadditive". The only solution I found for me is to pre-rinse the film three or four times 60 sec each with tap water.That seems to get rid of most of the surfactants incorporated in the film. Development times are slightly longer with a pre-rinse. I am well aware a pre-rinse is against the specific advice of Harman, but I did not find any issues and it is the only method that works for me. I am not saying this is the definitive solution to your problem (and I realize we are talking about a different developer and a different film here), but you may want to give it a try.

 

[michaelbothager]

A follow up.

My old reels, and a friends reels, do not have this problem in the same water/liquids. So it is the reels which have a problem. The problem is not foam, I have hardly any foam unless I agitate final rinse (and STAB) a bit much.

The air bubbles sticks to the reels in all liquids.

I tested adding Mirasol (wetting agent), and 6 drops pr 500ml, combined with 5-6 hard dunks of the tank on table, and 10 raps on the sides/bottom of the tank with a spatula, dislodges the bubbles 8 out of 10 times. The last two, some bubbles didn't disappear. This process is not right, and I think it is a manufacturing issues/defect. I've written the seller, I'll see what they say.

Also, I cleaned the reels like a million times now, using everything from vinegar with dish wash. water and baking powder (creates a good foam) to old C41 developer, BLIX and STAB (soaked in each for hours) to try to "season" the reels to the chemicals. Nothing has helped.

I'm staring to feel a little annoyed, Paterson used to be a reliable brand, but other seems to have had the same problem, without any reliable solution.

Rgds
Michael

 

[Pat Erson]

Can you process your films at someone's else place with his/her gear and his/her chemistry?

 

[darkroommike]

A follow up.


I'm staring to feel a little annoyed, Paterson used to be a reliable brand, but other seems to have had the same problem, without any reliable solution.

Rgds
Michael

• It's possible someone might swap you some old reels for your shiny new ones!
• The are stainless steel reels with 1 inch cores to fit Paterson tanks (Hewes) http://www.thedarkroom.co.uk/tradit...rson-tanks-br-b-2-3-days-delivery-time-b.html

 

[michaelbothager]

Can you process your films at someone's else place with his/her gear and his/her chemistry?

When I develop here with my old reels, and with a friends reel, there's no problem.

 

[michaelbothager]

It's possible someone might swap you some old reels for your shiny new ones!

Maybe the shop where I bought them ;o) – I've emailed them, and hopefully they will reply tomorrow.

The are stainless steel reels with 1 inch cores to fit Paterson tanks (Hewes) http://www.thedarkroom.co.uk/tradit...rson-tanks-br-b-2-3-days-delivery-time-b.html

I wouldn't mind to go stainless steel, and the reels is no problem to obtain. But then I wan't the tank to be stainless steel as well, and those are hard to find in Europe. If importing from outside EU, the taxes, import duties and fees would make them unreasonably expensive.

 

[bvy]

I also have Paterson reels, old and well seasoned, and brand new and hardly used. I should do some of my own tests...

 

[Pat Erson]

After twisting, no bubbles. After first inversion/3xtaps... bubbles

Michael

May eb you should do a "all twisting no inverting" dev session (and extend your dev time by 20-25%).

 

[michaelbothager]

If anyone still follows this subject...

I've filled the tank (1000ml) with 1100ml, and wetting agent in all the solutions, and I still get marks on the film edge with the "new" reels. Not foam, just that same line of single blobs/blotches/dots as before.

Thinking about switching to JOBO, I really don't want to waste more time/film/chemicals on this.

Rgds
Michael

 

[darkroommike]

Maybe the shop where I bought them ;o) – I've emailed them, and hopefully they will reply tomorrow.



I wouldn't mind to go stainless steel, and the reels is no problem to obtain. But then I wan't the tank to be stainless steel as well, and those are hard to find in Europe. If importing from outside EU, the taxes, import duties and fees would make them unreasonably expensive.

My own set up is Hewes reels (mostly) in Kindermann and Nikkor tanks (mostly). Works everytime if I do my part and properly load the reel.