Blank film, have checked usual suspects

[TomR55]

Earlier this evening, I processed a 35mm roll (36 exp) of Kodak TMax 100, in Claytons F76+. The entire roll came out blank, no edge markings, but evidence of halation dye during the rinse cycle.

My first thought: bad developer: I applied a drop of the developer I had used to the leader belonging to this roll, and got the big black dot—assuming that the developer is okay.

My process is pretty established, I prepare solutions in “reverse order,” meaning HCA first, then fixer, then stop, finally developer—which in this case was a matter diluting the prepared developer, 1 + 9 to distilled water. It’s pretty unlikely that I’d confuse fixer for developer as the fixer has already been prepared and is sitting in the queue.

I clearly saw evidence of the anti-halation dye during the various pours between stages of development. I fixed for about 4:30 in freshly mixed Claytons Rapid Fix, diluted per instruction.

I completed the wash cycle, went to hang the film and to my surprise the roll is totally blank—no markings of any kind.

I checked the camera’s shutter and it appears to work normally (all of my cameras had been recently CLA’d—but it’s worth checking anyway). That said, I’ll put a roll of Kentmere through it tomorrow and process with the same chemistry I used this evening … as a sanity check.

Naturally, I’m interested in any additional tests or hypotheses others might be able provide.

 

[MattKing]

Do you pre-rinse?
And is there any chance that the film was never actually in the developer?
In other words, (pre-rinse if used), stop, fixer, HCA, wash - but no developer.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

It was fixed first.

 

[Derek Lofgreen]

I did that once. I figured out that I didn't load the film correctly. The leader pulled out of the windup side after I closed the camera back and didn't advance. Then I wound the film up thinking it was done and developed it. The whole roll was blank. Not sure this is your case but it can happen.

D.

 

[AnselMortensen]

No edge markings= fixer before developer.

 

[MattKing]

No edge markings= fixer before developer.

Or fixer without developer.

 

[koraks]

I applied a drop of the developer I had used to the leader belonging to this roll, and got the big black dot—assuming that the developer is okay.

This test can be confusing, since dropping a liquid (even water) onto a piece of unprocessed film can give the appearance of density. Did you exclude any false positive here by fixing the strip of film, which should have revealed a dot of density on an otherwise blank piece of film?

No edge markings= fixer before developer.

This is really the most likely cause.

 

[Agulliver]

No edge markings surely means either the film was never viable in the first place or it was not developed.

The former seems unlikely in the extreme, so I would go along with those who say the film was not developed before it was fixed.

Either a mistake in processing, or the developer is completley spent.

 

[TomR55]

I thank everyone for their quick and helpful responses. And I agree with the consensus opinion: it must be a developer problem—given the statistical likelihoods … .

Now the problem becomes determining how that might have happened. I’ve been decanting one liter bottles of developer into smaller containers because I generally process one to two rolls per session. In this way, I can store the unused developer containers in a refrigerator at much cooler temperatures.

Clever is often the culprit.

I surmise that those plastic bottles were somehow the source of contamination. It’s extremely unlikely that the developer, out of the bottle from the manufacturer, was contaminated. The only remaining possible source of contamination had to occur during the transfer (and storage) of developer in separate plastic, screw-top bottles. [This assumes that my lab ware is clean. I thoroughly wash and treat tanks, reels and beakers in Titan Blue Systems Cleaner, before the final rinses and drying.] The irony here is that film chemistry is probably the least expensive component in the workflow

Thanks everyone, again, for your expertise and time.

 

[koraks]

Contamination causing this sounds odd to me. I would have expected some density and/or fog.

 

[pentaxuser]

I have only used fixer first once in about 20 years of processing and not in my early beginner's period either I couldn't believe I had done it I was convinced that the cylinders holding the dev and fixer were all in the right order and I had used them in that order but clearly not.

Did my mind just go blank for the very short time I reached for the wrong cylinder? If so what might have distracted me, I had no idea

So it happens and whatever "braín fart" caused it in my case I will never know What I do know is that each time I process film since that event something in my brain re-kindles that unfortunate event before I pour the liquids in to the cylinders and somehow has prevented me from doing it again

It's the kind of mistake that usually happens only once so you are likely "safe" now

pentaxuser

 

[TomR55]

Contamination causing this sounds odd to me. I would have expected some density and/or fog.

I thought about this as well. After the film dried, I examined it closely and found one or two “trace” images near the end of the roll. As I recall, the last few exposures on this roll were about +1 or +1.3 above the norm.

Following up, I then examined the last roll that I’d processed with that particular developer. It was a roll of Tri-X, exposed at 250-320 ASA, processed in this exact developer about two weeks prior. The setting for most of these images was heavily overcast. I noticed that the edge markings on this roll were nearly unreadable … having a faded appearance. The images themselves seemed fogged, but I attributed this, at that time, to the lack of inherent scene contrast. In retrospect, I choose this particular film with the scene contrast in mind. Reading through my processing notes, I agitated this roll a little more aggressively—again, bearing in mind the relative flatness on location.

I am no chemist, but I wonder if within those two weeks the developer had deteriorated without showing a big change in color—Claytons about a month in use appears somewhat “straw" colored, or even slightly beige but has worked.

I suppose that I can replace the developer and see what happens.

 

[koraks]

I am no chemist, but I wonder if within those two weeks the developer had deteriorated without showing a big change in color

This is possible, yes. Many developers die without a distinct color change. I don't know the composition of this developer, so I couldn't comment in more detail.

 

[runswithsizzers]

@TomR55, Do you label your containers?

I have forgotten much of what I learned during 20-some years of working in a clinical laboratory, but one habit still remains. Every container is labeled, and both labels are checked whenever filling one container from another. I won't say I never screw up a roll of film, but I think keeping my containers labeled may have prevented a few cases of mistaken identity in the darkroom. A roll of painter's tape and a Sharpie marker are cheap insurance.

 

[Agulliver]

I am no chemist, but I wonder if within those two weeks the developer had deteriorated without showing a big change in color—Claytons about a month in use appears somewhat “straw" colored, or even slightly beige but has worked.

It sounds like there's a considerable chance your developer was already "going off" when you developed that roll of Tri-X a couple of weeks beforehand. Hindsight is always perfect though and at the time those negatives probably didn't give much concern.

I was thinking that in over 40 years of developing film, the one time I had a film come out completely blank with no edge markings was when I was anxious to get developing after a two week summer holiday. The developer I was using was ID-11, several months old. While the previous film (developed maybe 3 weeks before) had been fine, the developer probably was beyond it's best. I should have been more patient and mixed up some new developer.

 

[TomR55]

@TomR55, Do you label your containers?

I have forgotten much of what I learned during 20-some years of working in a clinical laboratory, but one habit still remains. Every container is labeled, and both labels are checked whenever filling one container from another. I won't say I never screw up a roll of film, but I think keeping my containers labeled may have prevented a few cases of mistaken identity in the darkroom. A roll of painter's tape and a Sharpie marker are cheap insurance.
View attachment 387779

Yes, I do—having made THAT mistake early in life!

 

[Sirius Glass]

It was fixed first.

Been there
Done that

Once. I changed the way I handle the chemicals.

 

[cliveh]

As already said, fixed first.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It was fixed first.

Been there
Done that

Once. I changed the way I handle the chemicals.

 

[jeffreyg]

I always mix fresh developer for each use in a graduated cylinder. My premixed fixer is in a closed different shaped container labeled with the date. For fixer I use brown glass bottles I got from a pharmacist very many years ago that have been in use for fifty years. I thoroughly clean them each time I make a new mix. I use water from the faucet for stop and a fresh mix of hypoclear each time also in a different shaped container. So far so good. When even labeled containers are the same shape and size it's easy to mix up especially in the dark.
I'm plus one that the film wasn't developed hopefully they weren't important pictures and they can be repeated

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[cliveh]

I always mix fresh developer for each use in a graduated cylinder. My premixed fixer is in a closed different shaped container labeled with the date. For fixer I use brown glass bottles I got from a pharmacist very many years ago that have been in use for fifty years. I thoroughly clean them each time I make a new mix. I use water from the faucet for stop and a fresh mix of hypoclear each time also in a different shaped container. So far so good. When even labeled containers are the same shape and size it's easy to mix up especially in the dark.
I'm plus one that the film wasn't developed hopefully they weren't important pictures and they can be repeated

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Why would you develop film in the dark?

 

[TomR55]

I always mix fresh developer for each use in a graduated cylinder. My premixed fixer is in a closed different shaped container labeled with the date. For fixer I use brown glass bottles I got from a pharmacist very many years ago that have been in use for fifty years. I thoroughly clean them each time I make a new mix. I use water from the faucet for stop and a fresh mix of hypoclear each time also in a different shaped container. So far so good. When even labeled containers are the same shape and size it's easy to mix up especially in the dark.
I'm plus one that the film wasn't developed hopefully they weren't important pictures and they can be repeated

ABOUT | JEFFREY GLASSER

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Happily, I keep field notes. Some of these can be redone, some, owing to certain dynamic aspects, cannot.

In the long run, I think many respondents to this thread have all had their misadventures with this and other aspects of the “process.” But we keep doing this, some of us for five decades (or more)—perhaps staying engaged is good for maintaining our mental acuity as we age … or that’s the story I tell myself.

 

[retina_restoration]

You wouldn't be the first person to accidentally fix a roll of film before developing it, no matter how careful you are in laying out your chemistry.

However, if you determined that there are very minimal images present on some frames of the film, then you didn't fix it first - it had to be something awry with the developer; either it has expired or was somehow contaminated. (Do you make a stop bath when developing film? Any chance you accidentally added an acid to the developer, mistaking it for the stop bath container?)

I've never heard of any manufacturer recommending refrigerating a developer to extend its longevity. I don't know that this practice is doing you any favors. The first thing I wondered was whether the cold storage forced an important ingredient to fall out of solution, or somehow be degraded by cold? Dunno. But the thought occurred to me.

 

[TomR55]

You wouldn't be the first person to accidentally fix a roll of film before developing it, no matter how careful you are in laying out your chemistry.

However, if you determined that there are very minimal images present on some frames of the film, then you didn't fix it first - it had to be something awry with the developer; either it has expired or was somehow contaminated. (Do you make a stop bath when developing film? Any chance you accidentally added an acid to the developer, mistaking it for the stop bath container?)

I've never heard of any manufacturer recommending refrigerating a developer to extend its longevity. I don't know that this practice is doing you any favors. The first thing I wondered was whether the cold storage forced an important ingredient to fall out of solution, or somehow be degraded by cold? Dunno. But the thought occurred to me.

The thought that refrigeration may have resulted in some changes should be considered. I have poured the questionable developer into a flask and examined it for any evidence of sedimentation, etc. None seen. That said, it could still be problematic. I will follow-up with the manufacturer and let you know what (and if) I hear anything about refrigeration.

 

[jeffreyg]

I don’t develop film in the dark except 4x5 which I do in open rubber tanks. I keep them in order and load the film holders and develop in total darkness