blank film, dead Rodinal?

[miha]

So I'm 100% correct, not only partly

 

[MattKing]

So I'm 100% correct, not only partly

Depends on your use of "Most"
(as in "

Most of other chemistry ADOX do by themselves. Correct?

")

 

[pentaxuser]

Henning, it sounds as if both you and miha may be partly right So for clarification here: Does Tetenal make the Adox Rodinal for Adox?

If so, I will take it that Tetenal do this according to the original Rodinal specifications which Adox has bought and owns exclusive rights for. My next question would also apply to any company who has another chemical company make a product for it but to its specifications. The question is : In the case of Adox has it checked how Tetenal does this and does it do periodic checks on the product.

I would assume so but often when getting to the truth making assumptions becomes the first mistake

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Henning Serger]

So I'm 100% correct, not only partly

No, you are not. You are misinterpretating my post. Maybe I have said it to diplomatically .
But it doesn't matter at all. For the customer it is important which quality he gets. In the case of ADOX Rodinal/Adonal he gets the same quality as with original Agfa Rodinal.
With all the Rodinal derivates he gets a bit different formula/quality. Whether that is important each photographer has to decide by his own.
I had bad luck in the past with Maco / compard offered developers (dead developer after a very short time). But never with ADOX developers. Thant has also influenced my choice in addition to the aspects I have explained above.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[miha]

Henning, it sounds as if both you and miha may be partly right So for clarification here: Does Tetenal make the Adox Rodinal for Adox?

It does. So this makes me 100% right

 

[miha]

You are misinterpretating my post.

Am I? I don't think so.

 

[miha]

Depends on your use of "Most"
(as in "")

Most as "greatest in amount or degree"

 

[R.Gould]

Thanks for the clarification Henning, I don't use the Adox Rodinal, for tthe very reason that you don't use other brands, The only time I bought the Adox product it died on me very quickly, I got 20 films fine, the 21st it was dead, which never happened with Agfa Rodinal, and has never happened with RO9,/one stop, these days it is supplied in softpack, and it keeps it's fresh colour much longer, up to 3 or 4 month's, and I always seem to get the last dregs out of it, plus it os easier to get hold of here, everyone seems to stock it and very few stock the Adox version, in fact no where that I go to for supplies stock the Adox Rodinol/Adonal,
Richard

 

[reddesert]

https://www.adox.de/Photo/keeping-properties-of-developers/

“ADOX for chemistry which is subject to oxydisation. In general you can check if your bottle is made from:

• Glas = the best option. Cat.A
• PET or ADOX PE/PA = very good. Cat. A
• PE-HD or other materials which are non blocking = inferior for developers. Cat B”

And

• “The amount of openings of the bottle- the more, the worse.
• Have you used protective gas or glass marbles to push oxygen containing air out of the bottle again?”

And

“Keep the developer in the original bottle if it is a PE/PA or PET bottle. Refill developer sold in a PE-HD bottle to a glass bottle.”​

All of the above would seem to indicate that glass and glass marbles are ok and mandated from the manufacturer?

The Rodinal MSDS says that it's 2.7% potassium hydroxide, https://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/agfa/Agfa_Rodinal.pdf while the Rodinal substitute formula on digitaltruth is about 4% sodium hydroxide and the Parodinal formula is about 8% sodium hydroxide. These are dilutions, but still pretty strong. I assume that the manufacturer has tested storage in glass and finds it to be adequate, ie solutions are "dilute enough," but any chemistry reference will tell you not to store KOH and NaOH in glass, for example https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/conten...igma/Product_Information_Sheet/1/p5958pis.pdf The byproduct of a KOH or NaOH reaction with glass is likely potassium silicate or sodium silicate and I doubt that has any effect on development; it's just a question of adequate storage; take extra care that the bottles aren't damaged.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Thanks for the clarification Henning, I don't use the Adox Rodinal, for tthe very reason that you don't use other brands, The only time I bought the Adox product it died on me very quickly, I got 20 films fine, the 21st it was dead, which never happened with Agfa Rodinal, and has never happened with RO9,/one stop, these days it is supplied in softpack, and it keeps it's fresh colour much longer, up to 3 or 4 month's, and I always seem to get the last dregs out of it, plus it os easier to get hold of here, everyone seems to stock it and very few stock the Adox version, in fact no where that I go to for supplies stock the Adox Rodinol/Adonal,
Richard

I've found the Tetenal Paranol-S developer works well as a substitute / equivalent for Rodinal.

 

[john_s]

How about just not using glass plugs then?
There are plenty of screw cab, plastic, or plastic coated metal, glass bottles out there.

I mentioned it in the context of the topic, i.e. glass is as receptacle for strongly alkaline liquids. I discontinued using glass stopper bottles 50 years ago in the 1970s. I've noticed that the plastic screw caps used by Kodak for liquids with a very long life, such as Photo Flo, eventually crack apart before I've used it all.

 

[R.Gould]

I've found the Tetenal Paranol-S developer works well as a substitute / equivalent for Rodinal.

I've never tried the Tetenal paranol S but I,ve heard that it is a good product, when you boil it down it is quite possible that it is Tetenal that make the various Rodinal clones, they are the biggest chemical makers in Germany,

 

[miha]

I've never tried the Tetenal paranol S but I,ve heard that it is a good product, when you boil it down it is quite possible that it is Tetenal that make the various Rodinal clones, they are the biggest chemical makers in Germany,

Tetenal and perhaps Calbe: https://www.calbe-chemie.de/de/

 

[Henning Serger]

Am I? I don't think so.

Yes, you are. But probably in a different way as you think......
Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I've given all the information which I could give. More details are not possible due to NDAs. Please respect that.
And I think those who are interested in original Rodinal or in Rodinal derivates / clones have all the information they need.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Timmyjoe]

I've got a bottle of ADOX Rodinal that has a manufacture date of December 2015. Noticed on a roll developed yesterday that it seemed really "weak", didn't process the film as I expected. There are definitely crystals collecting in the bottom of the bottle. I've been using the original AGFA Rodinal since the middle 1980's and never previously had a bottle go bad, even ones used over many years. I thought the ADOX stuff would be the same situation. But in doing research, I came across this page on the ADOX web site, which says there definitely is a shelf life for their Rodinal, and crystals forming means it is seriously going downhill and deteriorating.

https://www.adox.de/Photo/developers-storage/

Good to know. Unfortunately I can no longer keep a bottle in the back of the closet for the occasional roll where I want Rodinal developing properties. Bummer.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Donald Qualls]

Might be worth your time to work out the amounts for the other chemicals (sodium hydroxide and sodium sulfite) to make small batches of Parodinal. A single "Extra Strength" 500 mg acetaminophen tablet should make about 40+ ml of concentrate, plenty to develop one or two rolls (it'll make a liter at 1:25).

 

[John Wiegerink]

Funny that this is just resurrected since I just developed a roll of Bergger 400 in Adox Rodinal dated 2015 also. This roll was just a quick test roll from a Rolleiflex 2.8E that I just finished repairing. I did wonder a little bit if the Rodinal was still good, but all shots were just fine. I do think that when this bottle is gone the next one will be transferred to a Boston brown glass bottle. I just don’t trust any kind of plastic for any long lived film developer. It takes me forever to use a bottle of Rodinal since I only use it for quick tests or a very rare roll of PanF+. Still a dang good developer if that’s what you like. JohnW

 

[reddesert]

Funny that this is just resurrected since I just developed a roll of Bergger 400 in Adox Rodinal dated 2015 also. This roll was just a quick test roll from a Rolleiflex 2.8E that I just finished repairing. I did wonder a little bit if the Rodinal was still good, but all shots were just fine. I do think that when this bottle is gone the next one will be transferred to a Boston brown glass bottle. I just don’t trust any kind of plastic for any long lived film developer. It takes me forever to use a bottle of Rodinal since I only use it for quick tests or a very rare roll of PanF+. Still a dang good developer if that’s what you like. JohnW

Rodinal has sodium hydroxide in it, so it should be stored in plastic not glass. Sodium hydroxide is reactive with glass. The manufacturer will have chosen an appropriate plastic. I assume Adox Rodinal also uses sodium hydroxide.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I've stored Parodinal in glass for up to several months, and never seen any sign of etching. One should avoid sodium or potassium hydroxide in chemical bottles with glass stoppers, as the stoppers can weld in place -- but a brown glass chemical storage bottle with the usual plastic cap should be fine for a few years, anyway.

 

[MattKing]

Historically, Rodinal came in brown glass bottles with rubber stoppers. It was in those bottles that it gained much of its reputation for longevity.

 

[jtk]

Dead Rodinal is better than no Rodinal at all

 

[reddesert]

Sure, and it's possible that the sodium hydroxide in Rodinal is not concentrated enough to damage the bottle. The reaction product is sodium silicate which should just be a precipitate I think and not affect developing.

But there is an idea that plastic is always inferior (occurs on Photrio in both the camera and chemical departments), and a reflexive move to use something else, without discussing the properties of the something-else. Glass is not always better, and in the case of sodium hydroxide it is potentially worse.

 

[pentaxuser]

But there is an idea that plastic is always inferior (occurs on Photrio in both the camera and chemical departments), and a reflexive move to use something else, without discussing the properties of the something-else. /QUOTE]

Applies to many ideas on Photrio.

pentaxuser

 

[Timmyjoe]

Okay, regardless of what the ADOX website says, it looks like my bottle of Rodinal from 2015 may not be bad after all, even though it is full of crystals (not as big as the one from the OP). Got a brand new bottle this afternoon and did a quick film test, mixed two identical small batches of Rodinal (one from new bottle, one from 2015 bottle) and tossed two pieces of exposed Ilford Delta 100 film, one into each solution. And they both turned black at the same rate. So I guess the 2015 bottle isn't bad after all.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Donald Qualls]

I guess the 2015 bottle isn't bad after all.

Clip test doesn't lie.