Black and White Contrast Control with a Color Enlarger

[ckpj99]

Hey Folks,

I tried to do a bit of searching on the topic, but there's just too many threads here.

I have my own darkroom with a 4x5 Beseler enlarger. I'm currently using a set a Ilford filters to control contrast. I've been using it quite a bit and I'm starting to get used to them.

However, I have two heads for my enlarger, a normal head and then a color head with built-in filters. In college, all I used were color heads, and we were taught to control the contrast with just the magenta filter.

Now I've learned that (like in the case of the Ilford filters) both magenta and yellow can be used to control.

So here's my question: is there any difference in how yellow and magenta affect contrast? If I were to hook up the color head on my enlarger, is there a system I can use to control contrast that's better than the old just-magenta system? Obviously, controlling your exposure times is easier with the Ilford filters (no change in time unless you jump from 3.5 up to 4), and just using magenta on a color head means adjusting your time whenever you change the filter. So, I guess I'm just curious what system you use to control contrast when printing black and white with a color head?

Thanks!

 

[cliveh]

The idea of using yellow and magenta is that you can jump between combinations without changing the exposure times. Having said that, it doesn't always work that well in practice, but worth trying.

 

[David Brown]

The idea of using yellow and magenta is that you can jump between combinations without changing the exposure times. Having said that, it doesn't always work that well in practice, but worth trying.

You can use a combination of both, or use yellow and magenta separately. See:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010628932591755.pdf (page 3)

It works very similar to the Ilford filters you're already used to using.

Clive is correct in that it isn't always reliable when you make a contrast change using of both filters at once. I suggest going with yellow and magenta separately, and you should make an exposure test whenever you change filtration.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

it never works in practice, and that , is for good reason!

 

[ckpj99]

Thanks for your help, folks. After reading and just sort of understanding that Ilford pdf, am I right in assuming that using a magenta filter is for increasing contrast, and that yellow is used to decrease contrast? And am I right in assuming that the only reason to use a mix of the two is to balance the time of the exposure as you change contrast?

In other words, I wouldn't be loosing anything by sticking to strictly using magenta to increase contrast? I was worried that the magenta might just affect the shadows, or something weird like that.

Also, after reading, I'm not sure it's worth switching heads. Is the convenience of having contrast control on knob instead of messing with filters worth the fuss of having to adjust your exposure every time you change contrast? I know you get a finer contrast adjustment, but I've never felt limited by the jumps in my Ilford filter set.

And finally, if I do decide to switch to the color head, is there a way to determine how much time you need to add for how much magenta you add? Back in college, we would add a second for every 10 points of contrast, but now that I really understand how exposure works that system makes absolutely no sense.

 

[MattKing]

The colour head adjustment of contrast will work essentially the same way as the individual multigrade filters. You just have to use the appropriate settings on the dials. If you use the appropriate table of settings, the colour head will be just as speed matched as the multigrade filters.

You realize, do you not, that both the multigrade filters and the table of colour head settings are only speed matched on one particular tone?

So unless that tone is the one that you are basing your exposure decisions on, you have to adjust your exposure when you are using either filters or a colour head.

Mr. Lambrecht (and others) recommend re-calibrating your enlarger colour head settings so as to speed match on highlight tones, rather than the mid tones used by Ilford. There is some advantage to that.

In any event, the sort-of speed matching does help you get closer.

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

My experience working with a color head for several months was that I didn't make a decent print for several months. Stick to the Ilford filters.

 

[rince]

You are right, use yellow to decrease and magenta to increase the contrast. Whenever I tried to use both together, my results were never really pleasing. Also I am assuming you are using a condenser head at the moment, which makes for much sharper images, than the diffuser heads. but also more need for spotting

 

[Tony Egan]

My experience working with a color head for several months was that I didn't make a decent print for several months. Stick to the Ilford filters.

x2. If you enjoy wasting paper and practicing cuss words, stick with the colour head

 

[Ian Grant]

I use both condenser and colour head (diffuser) enlargers and have no problems printing with either. I don't bother with the dual filtration it's easier to adjust just one but then I have been printing for many years and it becomes intuitive.

Ian

 

[Photographica]

You may be introducing another variable by switching heads. I'm guessing your "normal" head is a condenser and your color head is diffusion. There is much discussion about the differences between the two technologies.

 

[L Gebhardt]

Thanks for your help, folks. After reading and just sort of understanding that Ilford pdf, am I right in assuming that using a magenta filter is for increasing contrast, and that yellow is used to decrease contrast? And am I right in assuming that the only reason to use a mix of the two is to balance the time of the exposure as you change contrast?

In other words, I wouldn't be loosing anything by sticking to strictly using magenta to increase contrast? I was worried that the magenta might just affect the shadows, or something weird like that.

Also, after reading, I'm not sure it's worth switching heads. Is the convenience of having contrast control on knob instead of messing with filters worth the fuss of having to adjust your exposure every time you change contrast? I know you get a finer contrast adjustment, but I've never felt limited by the jumps in my Ilford filter set.

And finally, if I do decide to switch to the color head, is there a way to determine how much time you need to add for how much magenta you add? Back in college, we would add a second for every 10 points of contrast, but now that I really understand how exposure works that system makes absolutely no sense.

Yes, you have that correct. When I used the color head for black and white I didn't bother trying to speed match the results. So I used either one or the other, but not both. After a contrast change I think you really want to do another test strip to get the optimal time. A system can only be speed matched at one tone, and I find it's rarely the tone I'm interested in for that image.

If you want a system that works around this try looking at split grade printing. There you would make two exposures, one with low contrast and one with high contrast. This allows you to set the exposure for the highlights and the shadows, in effect arriving at the perfect ratio of hard to soft light and hence perfect contrast. I find it fiddly on a color head though since you are spending a lot of time turning dials (well, some are buttons but it's the same idea). I think using under the lens filters works well for split grade.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Yes, you have that correct. I find it fiddly on a color head through since you are spending a lot of time turning dials (well, some are buttons but it's the same idea). I think using under the lens filters works well for split grade.

I agree;much easier than dials

 

[David Brown]

My experience working with a color head for several months was that I didn't make a decent print for several months. Stick to the Ilford filters.

x2. If you enjoy wasting paper and practicing cuss words, stick with the colour head

Respectfully disagree.

You may be introducing another variable by switching heads. I'm guessing your "normal" head is a condenser and your color head is diffusion. There is much discussion about the differences between the two technologies.

The OP was trying to discern how color head filters are used, and it appears that he is getting a handle on that. Yes, switching from a condenser head to a diffusion color head introduces another variable. It could be that those who have not had success with the color heads have not taken that into account. I could be wrong.

One (or two) does not make a sample, and certainly not a rule. Having said that, I could make prints of the same negative to the same contrast on both my Beseler condenser and 45S color head, and I dare say one couldn't tell the difference.

 

[Dali]

So, I guess I'm just curious what system you use to control contrast when printing black and white with a color head?

Thanks!

I use a Durst M605 Color since 1986, this is my only enlarger and never felt the need to use Ilford filters under the lens. I find Yellow and Magenta settings from the enlarger head convenient as I can fine-tune the contrast. It is true that I need a new test trip after each new setting but it is not that annoying.

Take care.

 

[ckpj99]

Thanks, I think I'm going to stick with my regular (yes, it's a condenser) head. First, after looking at it, I don't think the color head is set for large format. It has a small window on the bottom about the size of a 6x6cm negative. Secondly, I don't feel like I'd be gaining much control from switching. I primarily only use two films, I have set of chemicals that I'm very comfortable using. I'm not upset with the results I'm getting. While I don't shoot large format a lot, changing heads every time I do seems tedious.

I did experiment with spilt grade printing in college, and while I have romantic notions about it being something I want to try again, I don't think I will.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help. I think I'll leave my setup as it. It's not like I was contemplating a purchase, I already have the color head, so if I do get ambitious, I can always change it out.

 

[veke]

Hi! Interesting topic as I have an old enlarger with a color head, no manual available unfortunately. So, what is the correct way to start, do I put values 0 to Y and M and after studying the paper copy I start to add the other to make say 0 and 40? Or do I start by putting values 50 to Y and M and then decrease/increase to 20 and 70? So far I have started with values 50 to both and then increase/decrease but with this procedure I don´t get good sharp pics, the prints become softer like shot throught a stocking. If I recall correctly I have M 20 and Y 60 at the moment. I have never shot through a stocking but I imagine the prints would look that way...How to filter the first test paper copy?

 

[mr rusty]

Interesting topic I have never thought about I guess since I use an RHD analyser. Using this and my colour (vivitar) enlarger each paper is calibrated for contrast using a stouffer step wedge, and the contrast settings stored. Result is consistent contrast steps using dichroic colour enlarger filters for each paper, irrespective of whether they happen to match the ilford filters..........or am I missing something?? This process seems to be consistent and repeatable. What has interested me in doing this is the wide differences in settings between say foma, kentmere and ilford MG papers. Love my analyser, and in a perverse way I am developing a better understanding of manual process through automation because I can see the tangible setting differences to measure against when prints don't come out quite as I want them - I think otherwise I would have a far harder time judging between e.g. contrast and exposure setting adjustments.

 

[Tony Egan]

Originally Posted by ParkerSmithPhoto (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

My experience working with a color head for several months was that I didn't make a decent print for several months. Stick to the Ilford filters.

Originally Posted by Tony Egan (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
x2. If you enjoy wasting paper and practicing cuss words, stick with the colour head


Respectfully disagree.

David, I don't think you can "disagree" with our personal experience. You might conclude we are not as talented, patient or persevering perhaps and this was not your experience with the equipment and skills you have.

One (or two) does not make a sample, and certainly not a rule. Having said that, I could make prints of the same negative to the same contrast on both my Beseler condenser and 45S color head, and I dare say one couldn't tell the difference.

Yes, I can do this too and had just enough patience to do so when I recently replaced the hot lights in both a Durst 138 and Beseler 45 colour head with LEDs. I'd rather follow a simple, reliable process than an alternative with more variables. A gentle warning to the OP on what I suspect has been the frustration of more than just 2 or 3 people on this subject. Hey, but don't let that stop anyone proving me wrong. Good luck!
​

 

[L Gebhardt]

Hi! Interesting topic as I have an old enlarger with a color head, no manual available unfortunately. So, what is the correct way to start, do I put values 0 to Y and M and after studying the paper copy I start to add the other to make say 0 and 40? Or do I start by putting values 50 to Y and M and then decrease/increase to 20 and 70? So far I have started with values 50 to both and then increase/decrease but with this procedure I don´t get good sharp pics, the prints become softer like shot throught a stocking. If I recall correctly I have M 20 and Y 60 at the moment. I have never shot through a stocking but I imagine the prints would look that way...How to filter the first test paper copy?

There are two methods: 1) if you want to keep the times the same you need to create a table of filter values that keep the time the same, but change the contrast. This will require use of both yellow and magenta in combination. Only one tone can really be kept constant this way. I find it's not worth the effort. 2) just use either magenta or yellow. The paper will have about a grade 2 contrast with white light. As you add either color filter it will adjust the contrast away from that initial grade (~2). Then just make a fine test strip to adjust the time.

I don't know why your results are looking like they are shot through a stocking. It could just be that the contrast is too soft at the combination you are using. Try using only one filter at a time. Ideally get your negative development down so you don't need either one for the bulk of them.

 

[Dali]

Hi! Interesting topic as I have an old enlarger with a color head, no manual available unfortunately. So, what is the correct way to start, do I put values 0 to Y and M and after studying the paper copy I start to add the other to make say 0 and 40? Or do I start by putting values 50 to Y and M and then decrease/increase to 20 and 70? So far I have started with values 50 to both and then increase/decrease but with this procedure I don´t get good sharp pics, the prints become softer like shot throught a stocking. If I recall correctly I have M 20 and Y 60 at the moment. I have never shot through a stocking but I imagine the prints would look that way...How to filter the first test paper copy?

I would start with all filters at 0. Then ad x points of magenta points if too soft (but yellow still at 0). On the opposite, if it is too contrasty, I would add x points of yellow (and magenta at 0). I don't know what your enlarger is but I doubt filtering the light has a noticeable impact on the sharpness of the print. Can you describe in detail your process from the time you turn on the enlarger until you get a print?

Take care.

 

[Truzi]

Aren't there tables for specific color enlargers that state where to start with the filters to equal/approximate certain contrast filters?

 

[MattKing]

Aren't there tables for specific color enlargers that state where to start with the filters to equal/approximate certain contrast filters?

Yes - see the Ilford link in David's post #3 in this thread.

 

[Truzi]

Yes - see the Ilford link in David's post #3 in this thread.

Sorry, that was a rhetorical question. I should have made it more of a statement.

 

[veke]

Thank you, dear Sirs. It makes sense to start with minimum filtering and then adding only one filter. If I start adding both it is like adding sugar and salt at the same time into a soup. To salmon I do add salt and sugar but that´s another story.

I do not know how to describe my process when enlarging. I just do it. Then try to repair the damages. The "stocking effect" may be due to a different paper (warm tone paper and Y was at 60, I think). The effet was beautiful on the shots taken on an airport in the 60´s, couldn´t wish for better even if I had tried to achieve this. It was pure accident. But on a group of people...it was a poor effect.

THe question about 0-0, 20-60-50-50 or whatever was because I have no idea of how a multi-contrast paper acts. Does the filtereing have an effect on different "layers" on the paper (if there happens to be layers) so that the highlights would get more contrast and details at the same time as the shadow areas get a pleasant exposure with details visible. My method is like walking on a mine field, I make lots of experiments and then do corrections and more experiments. What a great feeling when I occasionally do get a photo I really love. Anyway, it would be a much better and cheaper method to study theory and then do. I do and then study theory from here.

At the moment I do have sharp pics. Loads of tones from really black to white. But the middle tones need some remedy. I will put M to 0 and Y to 50. See what happens...