Better results with Rodinal

BAC1967 · Mar 6, 2021

RoboRepublic said:
This article has vanished, anyone have any decent links to literature that can get me started on coldinal? Thanks!

I never did get around to trying that. Here’s some more discussions on it.
rodinal cold stand site:www.photrio.com

pentaxuser · Mar 6, 2021

BAC1967 said:
I never did get around to trying that. Here’s some more discussions on it.
rodinal cold stand site:www.photrio.com

When clicking on this link it simply says "about blank#blocked?

Anyone else experience this response?

Thanks

pentaxuser

jay moussy · Mar 6, 2021

I get this:
An error occurred during a connection to go.skimresources.com.

??

Ah, your browser is doing a better job of screening suspect links!

Wayne · Mar 6, 2021

If one of you don't email the guy and ask him for the article I will, and I don't even want it.

pentaxuser · Mar 6, 2021

Wayne said:
If one of you don't email the guy and ask him for the article I will, and I don't even want it.

Thanks and let us know how you get on. If the said person has found what may be the "holy grail" of using Rodinal at low temp that solves all of its drawbacks then it's strange that he has chosen to hide his "light under a bushel" by deleting the links. Perhaps it is so good that there is now a fee for the article

pentaxuser

BAC1967 · Mar 6, 2021

pentaxuser said:
When clicking on this link it simply says "about blank#blocked?

Anyone else experience this response?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Not sure what went wrong there, all I did was Google “cold stand Rodinal” and it came up with several discussions here on Photorio. There’s also mention of this but I don’t speak German. http://experimentelle-fotografie.blogspot.com/2019/07/william-t-mortensen-belichte-auf-die.html

Wayne · Mar 6, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Thanks and let us know how you get on. If the said person has found what may be the "holy grail" of using Rodinal at low temp that solves all of its drawbacks then it's strange that he has chosen to hide his "light under a bushel" by deleting the links. Perhaps it is so good that there is now a fee for the article

pentaxuser

I didn't say I'd share it. I'm gonna keep the magic all to myself!

RoboRepublic · Mar 6, 2021

I wrote Renato, and can confirm the magic and secrets can be found via his personal mentorship on Patreon.

Wayne · Mar 6, 2021

RoboRepublic said:
I wrote Renato, and can confirm the magic and secrets can be found via his personal mentorship on Patreon.

Excellent!!!

newtonrings · Dec 14, 2021

I'm currently researching the coldinal process, and came upon this comment on Renato's original article (that has been removed). Thought it may be of interest:

"
Hey Renato,

thanks for the great article! I get a good feeling on how to process a film with this method. To sum it up, you:

use 10° for rodinal
use 1/50 to 1/100 dilution
use double the time thats specified (thats 26 mins for the tri-x 400)

right?

how do you get the rodinal (and other liquids) to 10°?

cheers,

Michi"

Link: https://medium.com/@michaelseirer/hey-renato-f65e9663fdcf

Still wondering about the agitation scheme etc, but if it really is as simple as it is summarized above I'm gonna give it a go. 26 mins is twice the time for Tri-X at EI 400 in Rodinal 1+50.

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2021

newtonrings said:
I'm currently researching the coldinal process, and came upon this comment on Renato's original article (that has been removed). Thought it may be of interest:

"
Hey Renato,

thanks for the great article! I get a good feeling on how to process a film with this method. To sum it up, you:

use 10° for rodinal

use 1/50 to 1/100 dilution

use double the time thats specified (thats 26 mins for the tri-x 400)

right?

how do you get the rodinal (and other liquids) to 10°?

cheers,

Michi"

Link: https://medium.com/@michaelseirer/hey-renato-f65e9663fdcf

Still wondering about the agitation scheme etc, but if it really is as simple as it is summarized above I'm gonna give it a go. 26 mins is twice the time for Tri-X at EI 400 in Rodinal 1+50.

Was the above what Renato had actually said in some link that has now long since been removed? I take it you have yet to receive Renato's reply? If it is as simple as cutting the temp in half from 20 to 10 degrees C then Renato's explanation of why he believes this works will be useful assuming he does give an explanation

When you do get his reply perhaps you can say what it is he says. Ideally a print of the same negative except for development at 20C instead of 10C would be useful as well but if you can at least confirm what Renato's process is then others might want to try it and give us their conclusions

I wonder what it is about Rodinal that (a) makes it work better at 10 rather than 20 - something in the ingredients presumably? Is there something about Rodinal in terms of either one ingredient that no other ingredient has or a unique combination of ingredients that no other developer has?

Or might it be as simple as the fact that other( maybe all other?) developers will in fact work at 10C, albeit it more slowly, and likewise produce negatives with finer grain?

Thanks

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2021

BAC1967 said:
Not sure what went wrong there, all I did was Google “cold stand Rodinal” and it came up with several discussions here on Photorio. There’s also mention of this but I don’t speak German. http://experimentelle-fotografie.blogspot.com/2019/07/william-t-mortensen-belichte-auf-die.html

Can you say where cold stand Rodinal came up in the link you gave? My ability to read German is now very poor but there seemed to be no mention of Rodinal or cold Rodinal It seemed to centre on 510 Pyro

Thanks

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Dec 14, 2021

One of the easiest ways to reduce the temperature is to put the dilution water in the refrigerator for a while before using, then mix it with some regular tap water if needed to get the final temperature.

In many regions, tap water this time of year may be as cold as 10C anyway.

Rodinal may be preferred here because it's a single-agent developer -- p-aminophenol only. Others (like D-76) use two developing agents, and in the case of D-76 or ID-11, one of those is hydroquinone, which becomes inactive below about 15 C resulting in a relatively sharp change in activity as the developer gets below that temperature.

newtonrings · Dec 14, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Was the above what Renato had actually said in some link that has now long since been removed? I take it you have yet to receive Renato's reply? If it is as simple as cutting the temp in half from 20 to 10 degrees C then Renato's explanation of why he believes this works will be useful assuming he does give an explanation

When you do get his reply perhaps you can say what it is he says. Ideally a print of the same negative except for development at 20C instead of 10C would be useful as well but if you can at least confirm what Renato's process is then others might want to try it and give us their conclusions

I wonder what it is about Rodinal that (a) makes it work better at 10 rather than 20 - something in the ingredients presumably? Is there something about Rodinal in terms of either one ingredient that no other ingredient has or a unique combination of ingredients that no other developer has?

Or might it be as simple as the fact that other( maybe all other?) developers will in fact work at 10C, albeit it more slowly, and likewise produce negatives with finer grain?

Thanks

The quoted message is not actually mine, just something I found while trying to google his article. I guess his knowledge about the process is only shared through Patreon these days. There must be other sources of information on this process though - I see it referenced regularly elsewhere, but nobody really goes into detail on the process.

Horatio · Dec 14, 2021

It’s been a while, but I recall reading about someone using “coldinol” and leaving the film & tank in a refrigerator overnight. Urban legend perhaps? Isn’t some agitation needed?

Edit: this was mentioned in an earlier post in the thread, reportedly Mortensen did it for 24 hours.

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2021

newtonrings said:
. There must be other sources of information on this process though - I see it referenced regularly elsewhere, but nobody really goes into detail on the process.

Thanks. Always a bit worrying when nobody goes into detail on the process.

Thanks Donald as well. What you said seems to go at least part of the way to explain why a simpler developer (simple in the sense of it having less ingredients) might work at lower temperature.

pentaxuser

glbeas · Dec 15, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Hmmm. I wonder if it's the film or the scan?

View attachment 250141
.EDU Ultra 100, EI 400, Parodinal 1:50

This is about a 3/4 frame crop -- from 35mm, with a two stop push.

The sharpening algorithm post scan, even that in the scanner driver, can make the grain look way worse than a wet print would look. Takes a bit of careful fiddling to get results that approximate the wet results.

Donald Qualls · Dec 15, 2021

glbeas said:
The sharpening algorithm post scan, even that in the scanner driver, can make the grain look way worse than a wet print would look. Takes a bit of careful fiddling to get results that approximate the wet results.

That's a good suggestion; the full frame (and the rest of that roll) shows some grain in the scans, as well, but I've never wet printed these. This was scanned with my old (made ca. 1998) Arcus 1200 back around 2007; if I could find those negatives it might be tempting to try rescanning them with my new-this-year Epson V850 Pro. Four times the linear resolution (= 16x pixel count) and better focus management...

tezzasmall · Dec 16, 2021

BAC1967 said:
Not sure what went wrong there, all I did was Google “cold stand Rodinal” and it came up with several discussions here on Photorio. There’s also mention of this but I don’t speak German. http://experimentelle-fotografie.blogspot.com/2019/07/william-t-mortensen-belichte-auf-die.html

Finally found an app to translate it from German to English. I just hope the link works:

https://experimentelle--fotografie-...http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB

Terry S

pentaxuser · Dec 16, 2021

Thanks Terry That was a pretty good translation and an interesting article with links to Pyro 510 and 2 bath development There was a small reference to colder temps but not in connection with improving Rodinal's drawback of grain which was what I thought might be the case based on my very poor understanding of the original German

pentaxuser

gone · Dec 16, 2021

Like Donald said, a scan isn't a print, and scanning itself introduces and magnifies grain. Why wouldn't it? It's enlarging everything on the film to a very high resolution, including the grain. I've had scans that looked awful but printed beautifully, and the other way 'round too. To me, the positive part of Rodinal is the grain. That's why I use it anyway, cost, convenience and longevity are secondary to the look it gives.

Donald Qualls · Dec 16, 2021

Rodinal doesn't soften anything. Not edges, not gradations, and certainly not grain. I now find replenished Xtol(alike) to work better for the results I prefer, but if I were on a budget with very limited, non-permanent darkroom space as I was fifteen years ago, I'd probably go back to mixing my own Parodinal. Hard to argue costs with a developer that runs under a dime a roll, and the results were very good, especially once I started doing reduced agitation and extended development (more time gives better true speed, less agitation reins in contrast).

K-G · Dec 16, 2021

The question of low temperature Rodinal has been discussed before and among other threads in this one. It seems difficult to prove any significant advantage with low temperature ( less than 18 C ).

Karl-Gustaf
rodinal-stand-development-at-low-temperature-13-degrees-celsius.160256

Juan Valdenebro · Dec 20, 2021

An old European teacher once told me Rodinal was designed to work well in Europe's winter, so for it 20Celsius was not normal. He recommended me to use it at around 16Celsius. I think the last time I used it years ago I did my tests at 17C if I remember well.
I liked my results a lot more than the ones I had with several films before, at 20C. Ian Grant came to say then there was no difference at all no matter the temperature used. With all respect to Ian and other members, I don't think that's possible. Some things must change at a very low extreme and also at a very high extreme... I don't care too much about a scientific study, I mean, about doing it myself.
If I ever use Rodinal again (I love its grain) I would use it with ISO100 film, at 16-17C, with very very gentle reduced agitation, say every third minute (not stand nor semi-stand), and exposing at half box speed, trying to minimize its evident midtone compression.

Jonno85uk · Jan 6, 2022

Paul Howell said:
For fine grain try studional, I think it's still being made.

Bit of a necrobump, but, recently I came across Hydrofen which is purported to be studional https://ntphotoworks.com/product/bellini-hydrofen-film-developer-rodinal-special-studional/

Better results with Rodinal

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